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Author Topic: Introducing: The Amazing Anonymous Bitcoin Lottery  (Read 21238 times)
TTBit
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August 26, 2010, 10:32:40 PM
 #81

Another possible lotto variant is a pick-3 or pick-4 or whatever, where you require 100% match, but have a drawing for each bitcoin block.  Jackpot keeps growing, and all tickets remain valid, until a winner emerges.

Somewhat like "sudden death overtime" in sport, where you keep playing until someone scores.

Ok, ran some numbers, made a few bogus attempts with past data, seems like a good bet, but I have one problem I need some help with: How am I going to give the better some assurance I'm not cheating?

In the lottery I give out all bets before the result is known, so I can't make up numbers after the fact, but here I don't know... I could just show all bets all the time but that would still not prevent me from adding a winning bet a second before the block arrives... don't know what I can do here, other than say 'trust me', which is all fine but, I don't know, feels weird.

if current block is 76602, say 'bet will become active block 76608 forward' And if someone hits block 76605, don't pay out that bet.

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nelisky
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August 26, 2010, 10:35:27 PM
 #82


if current block is 76602, say 'bet will become active block 76608 forward' And if someone hits block 76605, don't pay out that bet.

Right, that and the full list of *active* bets should be all the disclosure needed... thanks!
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August 26, 2010, 10:41:09 PM
 #83

There is lots to think about here. Don't forget that showing number of dupes keeps operator from claiming there was a dupe on a winner when there wasn't. Of course you could release that after the lock.



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August 27, 2010, 10:34:39 AM
 #84

I couldn't find anywhere on the website that said you can only win 1 prize.

If you pick 3 do you also win the prizes for the pick 2 and pick 1 since you must have done so?


nelisky
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August 27, 2010, 10:53:48 AM
 #85

I couldn't find anywhere on the website that said you can only win 1 prize.

If you pick 3 do you also win the prizes for the pick 2 and pick 1 since you must have done so?


Well, the rules haven't been written down, and all my extra time has been spent testing and fixing. But that particular scenario has been mentioned a couple of times before... 1 ticket = 1 prize. You don't get on second and one third if you get one first...

Is this something you'd like to see changed? If so, why?

I'm just mimicking the local state lottery on this one, really. It also makes prize calculation easier, but only marginally so Smiley
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August 27, 2010, 01:18:18 PM
 #86

I couldn't find anywhere on the website that said you can only win 1 prize.

If you pick 3 do you also win the prizes for the pick 2 and pick 1 since you must have done so?


Well, the rules haven't been written down, and all my extra time has been spent testing and fixing. But that particular scenario has been mentioned a couple of times before... 1 ticket = 1 prize. You don't get on second and one third if you get one first...

Is this something you'd like to see changed? If so, why?

I'm just mimicking the local state lottery on this one, really. It also makes prize calculation easier, but only marginally so Smiley

It's not that important, imo, but it should be written one way or the other. Just pick a way, it's all subject to change of course.

Oh, I noticed a tiny thing. [ home] [ bet] [ draw details] [ account ] [ log out ]

The spacing is off, missing the end space on home, bet, and draw details.

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August 27, 2010, 01:41:03 PM
 #87

a.3   allow till lock
b.3   everything, all the time
c.2   empty the pot
d.1   1BTC for now
e.1   every 1k

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August 27, 2010, 02:03:47 PM
 #88

a) Cancel tickets:
  1) remove completely

b) Other bets visibility
  3) show everything, all the time

c) Unclaimed prizes
  1) Just roll over to the next draw

d) bet price
  1) 1

e) draw interval
  1) every 1k
nelisky
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August 27, 2010, 06:14:13 PM
 #89

Almost there!

Remember, this one will not pay up automagically, as I need to double check the numbers first. So have some patience if you do win....

As for the poll so far, consensus on ticket price (1BTC) and draw interval (1k blocks). That much is settled for now.

a) Cancel tickets:
  1) remove completely - 3 votes
  2) allow for 100 blocks after ticket registration - I would vote this one
  3) allow till draw locked - 1 vote

I'll remove the ticket canceling for the next draw, and we can discuss if its better for most that way

b) Other bets visibility
  1) only show when draw is locked - 2 votes
  2) show but don't state number of duplicates - I would vote this one
  3) show everything, all the time - 2 votes

Well, it's a draw, so I decide Smiley
We will go with 1, but with the knowledge that random bets will not repeat numbers already registered. So if you choose a number, you choose a number, your call. But if you buy one ticket, you buy one unique ticket at the time, which might become a dup if someone manually selects your number, but only that way.
The exception to the random uniqueness is when 95% of available numbers have been taken, to avoid taking too much time going for the holes.

c) Unclaimed prizes
  1) Just roll over to the next draw - 1 vote
  2) Just add to the prizes actually won on the same draw - 3 votes
  3) do 1) but when pot reaches 5000 (or some other number) do a special "Guaranteed Jackpot!" which is just 2) above - guess what my vote would be?

I still feel that 1 is better than 2 in the long run, but I get that you don't feel the same way. The only way I can see this keeping interest by high pots is from human intervention Smiley I am going to try and keep at least 50% of the total bets for as long as I can (just like I do right now) to up the pot, and we do 2). All donations made to the address in the site will be used for betting, I'll try to keep a log of what I bet and earn, just for kicks. If anyone wants to do that instead of me, that is also fine... I'll post that person's address on the site with an explanation of what is happening.
We'll revisit this at some later date.

All good? I'm going to quickly code the blend in of unclaimed prizes real quick, and hope it doesn't break everything Smiley
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August 27, 2010, 06:28:09 PM
 #90

a) Cancel tickets:
  1) remove completely

+1

b) Other bets visibility
  1) only show when draw is locked

+1

c) Unclaimed prizes
  1) Just roll over to the next draw

+1

d) bet price
  1) 1
  2) 2
  3) 5
  4) depends on the pot that rolled over (assumes c:1) or c:3) )

I would prefer that a ticket for number NNNN cost at least one BTC, but any number above that will buy MMMM tickets for the given number.

Example:  I pay 1.23 BTC for ticket number fff.  Or 12.99 BTC for ticket number aaa.

This is equivalent to buying 1.23 fff tickets, or 12.99 aaa tickets.


e) draw interval
  1) every 1k
  2) every 1k
  3) every 1k, but if c:3) the Guaranteed Jackpot happens in 500 blocks, just to force people to pay attention to the site Smiley
  4) every other 0.5k

I say every block Smiley

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nelisky
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August 27, 2010, 06:31:01 PM
 #91


Oh, I noticed a tiny thing. [ home] [ bet] [ draw details] [ account ] [ log out ]

The spacing is off, missing the end space on home, bet, and draw details.

Good eye you have there. Fixed on the development version, will be up for next upgrade. Thanks!
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August 27, 2010, 06:34:48 PM
 #92

d) bet price
  1) 1
  2) 2
  3) 5
  4) depends on the pot that rolled over (assumes c:1) or c:3) )

I would prefer that a ticket for number NNNN cost at least one BTC, but any number above that will buy MMMM tickets for the given number.

Example:  I pay 1.23 BTC for ticket number fff.  Or 12.99 BTC for ticket number aaa.

This is equivalent to buying 1.23 fff tickets, or 12.99 aaa tickets.

Huh? I don't get it, can you expand on your reasoning here?

e) draw interval
  1) every 1k
  2) every 1k
  3) every 1k, but if c:3) the Guaranteed Jackpot happens in 500 blocks, just to force people to pay attention to the site Smiley
  4) every other 0.5k

I say every block Smiley


And you will get it... but not on the 'classic' lottery. There will be, when I get around to finishing it, a parallel 'pick 3' game on the site, on which you buy a number and that number is in play until someone hits first prize, taking the whole pot. The 'number' (it's a number in the hexadecimal form, so I guess it's safe to call it that) will be matched against every future block until there's a winner, as proposed.
TTBit
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August 27, 2010, 07:50:27 PM
 #93

How about its free to change your pick, just not retract it.

20 blocks to go until I'm stinkin' rich.

good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment
nelisky
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August 27, 2010, 08:18:34 PM
 #94

As I run the final tests to the prize distribution without the unclaimed rollover, it occurred to me: If we let the unclaimed prizes be evenly distributed on the claimed pot... should we not go back to the 5 characters bets? Yeah, chances of hitting all 5 are 1 in 1048576, but the prizes are split down, so it just adds to the distribution of prizes. Can I get the next one on 5 chars, people?

The prizes could then be, as initially proposed:
1st prize - 5 characters correct - 50%
2nd prize - 4 (rightmost) characters correct - 6%
3rd prize - 3 (rightmost) characters correct - 8%
4th prize - 2 (rightmost) characters correct - 9%
5th prize - 1 (rightmost) character correct - 25%
bounty pool - 2%

open to discussion Smiley

I'll open a quick, 3 digit draw at 77000 (that's 225 from the one open now!) just to even out the numbers, we can discuss till then. After that, we'll be at every 1k as decided.
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August 27, 2010, 08:22:07 PM
 #95

d) bet price
  1) 1
  2) 2
  3) 5
  4) depends on the pot that rolled over (assumes c:1) or c:3) )

I would prefer that a ticket for number NNNN cost at least one BTC, but any number above that will buy MMMM tickets for the given number.

Example:  I pay 1.23 BTC for ticket number fff.  Or 12.99 BTC for ticket number aaa.

This is equivalent to buying 1.23 fff tickets, or 12.99 aaa tickets.

Huh? I don't get it, can you expand on your reasoning here?

It's basically an easy interface for buying multiple tickets for the same lotto number.  Maybe this already exists, under another name?

If I want to buy for ticket "fff", I can do
     1) buy 1 ticket for 1 BTC, number "fff"
     2) buy 1 ticket for 1 BTC, number "fff"
     3) buy 1 ticket for 1 BTC, number "fff"
     4) buy 1 ticket for 1 BTC, number "fff"
     5) buy 1 ticket for 1 BTC, number "fff"

or we could simplify that to
     1) buy 5 tickets for 5 BTC, number "fff"

and if you permit that, why not also permit fractional tickets, e.g.
     1) buy 5.5 tickets for 5.5 BTC, number "fff"

Calculating winnings for each person is a simple algebra problem, at that point.

Jeff Garzik, bitcoin core dev team and BitPay engineer; opinions are my own, not my employer.
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nelisky
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August 27, 2010, 08:30:40 PM
 #96


It's basically an easy interface for buying multiple tickets for the same lotto number.  Maybe this already exists, under another name?

If I want to buy for ticket "fff", I can do
     1) buy 1 ticket for 1 BTC, number "fff"
     2) buy 1 ticket for 1 BTC, number "fff"
     3) buy 1 ticket for 1 BTC, number "fff"
     4) buy 1 ticket for 1 BTC, number "fff"
     5) buy 1 ticket for 1 BTC, number "fff"

or we could simplify that to
     1) buy 5 tickets for 5 BTC, number "fff"

and if you permit that, why not also permit fractional tickets, e.g.
     1) buy 5.5 tickets for 5.5 BTC, number "fff"

Calculating winnings for each person is a simple algebra problem, at that point.


Aha, yes, I get it now! Smiley

Well, sure, why not. The way the thing is coded already supports this, though the interface doesn't. I'll run some tests, I'm sure I can put this in soon.
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August 27, 2010, 09:50:38 PM
 #97

As I run the final tests to the prize distribution without the unclaimed rollover, it occurred to me: If we let the unclaimed prizes be evenly distributed on the claimed pot... should we not go back to the 5 characters bets? Yeah, chances of hitting all 5 are 1 in 1048576, but the prizes are split down, so it just adds to the distribution of prizes. Can I get the next one on 5 chars, people?

The prizes could then be, as initially proposed:
1st prize - 5 characters correct - 50%
2nd prize - 4 (rightmost) characters correct - 6%
3rd prize - 3 (rightmost) characters correct - 8%
4th prize - 2 (rightmost) characters correct - 9%
5th prize - 1 (rightmost) character correct - 25%
bounty pool - 2%

open to discussion Smiley

I'll open a quick, 3 digit draw at 77000 (that's 225 from the one open now!) just to even out the numbers, we can discuss till then. After that, we'll be at every 1k as decided.

Sounds good. I like the every block 'pick 3' too.

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August 27, 2010, 10:15:09 PM
 #98

Here-WE-GO. Come on block 76775 hash's give me some love.

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August 27, 2010, 10:18:14 PM
 #99

I'm actually quite nervous about my code handling the real thing Smiley

I'm a veteran at these things, why does it still happen?
nelisky
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August 27, 2010, 10:21:25 PM
 #100

And obviously I failed at the most important snippet of code in the whole system: I'm comparing drawblock < currentblock, meaning we need to wait for one more block Smiley

sorry guys, next time it works as expected.
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