Bitmain and the Antminer L1

[RobN1972]

 Hi all,

  I don't want to be considered a troll, but I think the experience I am having should be shared. 

  So I ordered in good faith 5 units of the Antminer L1 back when they were first introduced.  I know pre paying for mining equipment so far in advance is a risky (and arguably stupid) proposition, but the deal looked good and I have had dozens of successful transactions with Bitmain so I decided to take my chances.  Bitmain has always made good on pre orders for me so I didn't think twice about it.  My gamble was more about the value and difficulty of LTC come time to receive the units. 

  Well, as many of you know, the L1 units were promised to be delivered in December.  Granted we are still 2 weeks away from the end of the month, but the fact that there has been no news or even a picture of the product released got me thinking they were going to have trouble making the deadline.  I politely wrote them and asked if there were news and they said there was not, so I asked if I would be allowed to use what I had paid for the L1 units toward a new order and they responded YES.

  Here's the thing...  the L1 units are priced in USD, $599 each.  I bought 5, so a total of $2995.  I of course paid them in BTC at the time of the order, and as we all know, BTC has dropped sharply since September.  When I went to make a NEW order for things they actually have, my order total was about $3047.  I wrote support (as I was instructed to do) and gave them the order numbers for the old orders (of the L1 units) and the new order.  By my math I owe them $52.  They wrote back and told me my balance due on the new order was roughly 2.7 BTC, a far cry from the $52 I thought I owed for my new order.  I immediately responded and explained that since the L1 units are priced in dollars, I feel my credit should be in dollars to which they said they can't do that.

  The L1 units (if they exist) are arguably worth more than $600, and certainly worth much more than anything I would get in BTC credit applied from September.  I feel that Bitmain is wrong for doing this.  I paid them $599 per unit but now they want my credit to be for the BTC paid.  There's no way to prove this, but we can all be pretty sure that if BTC were UP at this point, the credit back to me would likely be in USD, and not in the BTC I paid.

  The whole issue is they have all but admitted they won't make delivery on the L1 units as promised.  They haven't offered a shred of information about them.  I feel it wrong for them to expect me to take a loss on the value of my payment in order to get anything for what I have paid. 

  I told them to cancel my new order and leave the orders for the L1 units open, and that's where things are at now.  I have to say I expected better from this company and I am disappointed.  The best I can do is hope they actually ship L1 units at some point, because I believe they will have much more value than what Bitmain is offering me now.

  I just wanted to share my experience, that's all.

[tarmi]

first rule of mining club:

do not preorder.

[Medow]

They should honor their business payment modal, if they priced their products in dollar (Which they are use) then all transaction , fund, refund ... etc should base on dollar calculation  nothing else.

[dogie]

Can you PM me order details and what you wanted to order please? But in the future, L1 stuff is in the altcoin section [admin will throw it there anyway].

[RchGrav]

They should honor their business payment modal, if they priced their products in dollar (Which they are use) then all transaction , fund, refund ... etc should base on dollar calculation  nothing else.

^^THIS^^

Oh wait. no I think we got it all wrong.. I know how it works.  Always calculate refunds based on ripping people off... if BTC is worth more than when they paid, refund less than what they paid in BTC, this is fair since the product was priced in USD and not Bitcoin..  However, the exception to that rule is if the amount of BTC being refunded exceeds the original amount of BTC they sent us to begin with.. then just refund that amount.. and even if its store credit.. ask them to send more bitcoins.. they won't know.. bitcoiners are hella stupid..   The only time when we would have to actually refund a customer fully would be if they paid us with that pesky bank transfer option.. I mean because there is like rules and stuff.. or something.

Yup, that's an awesome policy.    I'm sure its gonna go over big with everyone if it sticks..
 

[dogie]

Yup, that's an awesome policy.     I'm sure its gonna go over big with everyone if it sticks..

It's not the policy, I'm sorting it now. I'll let you know more soon.

[Scooby903]

[RobN1972]

 The only update I was given is that they confirmed my request to cancel the new order and keep the orders open for the L1 units.  I am hoping they will either change this unfair exchange policy (Dogie is looking into it, THANKS!!!!), or actually deliver the L1s in the next 30 days.

  I was one of the many ripped off by KNC on a preorder and I swore I wouldn't do it again, but Bitmain has been on the money with everything else, so I trusted them.

  However this plays out, I will not pre order anything from anyone again, not even Jesus Christ himself.

  Thanks for the support

Rob

  PS- Pass me some of that popcorn!

[Scooby903]

Sorry Guys 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=768004.260

[edgar]

You are not a troll OP, but be prepared for bitmains 2 man army to publicly label you as such.

I tried to tell everyone in JUNE!!

this is not a surprise at all, but i do feel for you.

Please stay in touch wrt refunds/ripoffpensation.

this is the 'new' business model. (that began with S2 junk)

[RobN1972]

 So my suspicion was correct and there will be no (publicly released) Antminer L1.  As shown in the link above, they are offering fair compensation for this.  I will choose option 1 and take a 105% refund in current market value of BTC.  This actually makes this the most profitable miner I ever bought (once I get the refund at least).

 I have just now asked for the refund and will follow up when I get it to let anyone interested know the issue was resolved, and resolved fairly.

  Again, thanks go out to dogie for taking time to look in to this.  

  If Bitmain makes good on this, I would not hesitate to consider another pre order offer from them in the future.  Contrary to what everyone says, I have made out just fine on pre orders from them for the various batches of the S3 and s3+ units by simply reselling them when I had them in hand (after running a few weeks of course!).  I have always trusted them, that's why I was so surprised at the initial response to this issue.  Now that they are stepping up and owning the issue, I feel much better.  (Once BTC is paid of course).

  I'll let you know :-)

  Latest Update:  I received a confirmation of my request for a refund.  The email simply said  "noted".

  I replied to this email asking when they would issue the refund and they said, "it would be processed after Christmas, we need some time to collect the info.
thanks for your understanding."

  Meh, I'm not that worried about waiting a week or two as long as I get what they promise, but I do want to go on the record as saying it shouldn't take so long.  There's no information needed, really.  They have my orders and they have my BTC addy, so those plus 5 minutes and they could wrap this up sooner.  Oh well...

[RobN1972]

 As promised, I am updating this to inform anyone interested that Bitmain did make good on the promise to refund at 105% in current BTC value.  Since BTC has dropped so much since I ordered, I actually made quite a few 'extra' BTC so it's all good