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Author Topic: PorcFest 2012 -- Biggest Bitcoin event ever  (Read 16627 times)
MoonShadow
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June 25, 2012, 07:32:21 PM
 #41

Please do understand though, that this is a very libertarian event. People attending are expected to live up to the non-aggression principle. If seeing lots of people walking around open carrying bothers you then you won't be comfortable.

i find it rather curious that in one of the most religious first world countries people can be patriots and at the same time have a philosophy that closely resembles satanism. ok la veyan satanism mostly, and he was american and basically an atheist, but still...



You have a very distored view of Americans.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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June 25, 2012, 07:35:26 PM
 #42

Please do understand though, that this is a very libertarian event. People attending are expected to live up to the non-aggression principle. If seeing lots of people walking around open carrying bothers you then you won't be comfortable.

i find it rather curious that in one of the most religious first world countries people can be patriots and at the same time have a philosophy that closely resembles satanism. ok la veyan satanism mostly, and he was american and basically an atheist, but still...



You have a very distored view of Americans.

how so?

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June 25, 2012, 07:36:47 PM
 #43

New Hampshire does have a significant head start as far as Bitcoin becoming a routinely used currency:

 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=66832.0

In October in San Diego is Libertopia 12 (October 11-14, 2012).

 

 - http://libertopia.org/festival

I've only talked with one person who will be a presenter there, and I failed to get past the "Bitcoin isn't gold or silver therefore it will never be money" bias.  That was, however, before Erik Voorhees' Bitcoin  - The Libertarian Introduction (which appeared in the April 2012 issue of Freedom's Phoenix) and *now* at least Bitcoin has become a topic worthy of discussion.
 - http://evoorhees.blogspot.com/2012/04/bitcoin-libertarian-introduction.html

Are there any other gatherings or clusters of Bitcoiners?

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June 25, 2012, 07:38:48 PM
 #44

Please do understand though, that this is a very libertarian event. People attending are expected to live up to the non-aggression principle. If seeing lots of people walking around open carrying bothers you then you won't be comfortable.

i find it rather curious that in one of the most religious first world countries people can be patriots and at the same time have a philosophy that closely resembles satanism. ok la veyan satanism mostly, and he was american and basically an atheist, but still...

You have a very distored view of Americans.

how so?

Pretty much the entire part I highlighted.

EDIT: Or, perhaps, a very distorted understanding of Satanism?

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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June 25, 2012, 08:08:26 PM
 #45

Disregarding the "most religious first world country" bit, I'm confused how a gathering of a few thousand people can be representative of a country of 350+ million people, as well.  I can gather 5000 hard core atheists, does that represent the rest of the country?

I mean... it was a libertarian festival.  What did you expect to find there, conservatives?


If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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June 25, 2012, 08:10:45 PM
 #46

Please do understand though, that this is a very libertarian event. People attending are expected to live up to the non-aggression principle. If seeing lots of people walking around open carrying bothers you then you won't be comfortable.

i find it rather curious that in one of the most religious first world countries people can be patriots and at the same time have a philosophy that closely resembles satanism. ok la veyan satanism mostly, and he was american and basically an atheist, but still...



Satanists are anti-drug. There were lot's of drugs at Porcfest.

Discover anarcho-capitalism today!
MoonShadow
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June 25, 2012, 08:12:18 PM
 #47


Satanists are anti-drug.
[/quote]

Can't say that our definitions of the term are even close to each other.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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June 25, 2012, 08:14:12 PM
 #48

Read Anton LaVey's The Satanic Bible. Those Satanists are anti-drug.

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June 25, 2012, 08:19:12 PM
 #49

Quote from: wikipedia
The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth

Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
When in another’s home, show them respect or else do not go there.
If a guest in your home annoys you, treat them cruelly and without mercy.
Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
Do not take that which does not belong to you, unless it is a burden to the other person and they cry out to be relieved.

Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
Do not harm young children.
Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them.

the highlighted ones seem to fit the libertarian heavily armed non-aggression principle pretty well.
which leaves us with my statement of the usa being one of the most religious first world countries.

Quote from: wikipedia-usa-article
In a 2002 study, 59% of Americans said that religion played a "very important role in their lives", a far higher figure than that of any other wealthy nation.

so i dont see where my view is so distorted. maybe you misunderstood me.

@inaba

i didnt say it was representative. but to me it seems most libertarians are no less religious than other americans and they consider themselves patriots. i might be wrong about that.
i admit that i am a bit struggling because the whole movement has no equivalent here whatsoever.

@daily anarchist
i am not really an expert but i dont think thats really a superimportant part of la veyan satanism.

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June 25, 2012, 08:25:32 PM
 #50

I'm not sure what the breakdown of libertarian vs religious is... not something I've ever looked into,  but I would agree it's probably reasonable that a similar percentage of libertarians are religious as the rest of the country.  So that particular fact aside, I don't see how religion, liberatarianism and patriotism directly relate to each other.  One does not go with the other in any combination.

You can be one, two or all three or any combination, I don't think one has any bearing on the other.  There may be some minor correlation with libertarian and patriots, but I don't see it as being a strong one.  In fact, I would tend to thing it may be just the opposite... the more libertarian you are, the less patriotic you are, on average.    That's just purely my conjecture though, I have nothing to back that up with.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
MoonShadow
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June 25, 2012, 08:47:28 PM
 #51

Quote from: wikipedia
The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth

Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
When in another’s home, show them respect or else do not go there.
If a guest in your home annoys you, treat them cruelly and without mercy.
Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
Do not take that which does not belong to you, unless it is a burden to the other person and they cry out to be relieved.

Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
Do not harm young children.
Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them.

the highlighted ones seem to fit the libertarian heavily armed non-aggression principle pretty well.
which leaves us with my statement of the usa being one of the most religious first world countries.

I've never seen those rules anywhere in my life, and don't coincide at all with my own understanding of the term.  That said, even if I were to agree that the above highlighted rules are an equivilent to the non-agression principle (I don't), any such similarities are coincidental.  Every religion on Earth has some kind of general principle that seems similar on it's face, and I think that even Satanists would be offended by the comparison, since part of the defining rules you cite would explicitly exclude most Americans & most libertarians.
Quote
Quote from: wikipedia-usa-article
In a 2002 study, 59% of Americans said that religion played a "very important role in their lives", a far higher figure than that of any other wealthy nation.

so i dont see where my view is so distorted. maybe you misunderstood me.


Apparently I did, but my argument stands.  You have a distored view of Americans and satanists.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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June 25, 2012, 09:12:28 PM
 #52

I've never seen those rules anywhere in my life, and don't coincide at all with my own understanding of the term.  That said, even if I were to agree that the above highlighted rules are an equivilent to the non-agression principle (I don't), any such similarities are coincidental.  Every religion on Earth has some kind of general principle that seems similar on it's face, and I think that even Satanists would be offended by the comparison, since part of the defining rules you cite would explicitly exclude most Americans & most libertarians.

you claim a lot but you never present any argument or facts.
i get that you disagree with me but neither how nor why.

Quote
Apparently I did, but my argument stands.  You have a distored view of Americans and satanists.

what argument? "no" is not an argument in my book.
i have met with actual satanists and did quite a bit of reading on related philosophy.
i might have a distorted view of americans but i think i share that with the americans  Wink

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June 25, 2012, 09:13:53 PM
 #53

Please do understand though, that this is a very libertarian event. People attending are expected to live up to the non-aggression principle. If seeing lots of people walking around open carrying bothers you then you won't be comfortable.

i find it rather curious that in one of the most religious first world countries people can be patriots and at the same time have a philosophy that closely resembles satanism. ok la veyan satanism mostly, and he was american and basically an atheist, but still...



Satanists are anti-drug. There were lot's of drugs at Porcfest.

I can confirm 100% there were plenty drugs at the event  Grin

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June 26, 2012, 12:23:19 AM
 #54

I met zero satanists at the event (though perhaps I missed them). I did, however, meet dozens of christians, a few jews, and a few muslims. The most religious of all were us Bitcoiners, who set up a bright LED Bitcoin sign on a tree and prayed to Satoshi every six blocks from sunrise to sunset.

Observationally speaking, if this was a satanic event, satan wouldn't have been pleased with the turnout.
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June 26, 2012, 12:53:30 AM
 #55

I've never seen those rules anywhere in my life, and don't coincide at all with my own understanding of the term.  That said, even if I were to agree that the above highlighted rules are an equivilent to the non-agression principle (I don't), any such similarities are coincidental.  Every religion on Earth has some kind of general principle that seems similar on it's face, and I think that even Satanists would be offended by the comparison, since part of the defining rules you cite would explicitly exclude most Americans & most libertarians.

you claim a lot but you never present any argument or facts.
i get that you disagree with me but neither how nor why.

Oh, sorry.  I guess I'll have to spell it out.  By definition, a satanist is a person who worships Satan.  Any version of a set of mores, whether or not they might resemble those of another group or not, notwithstanding.

Therefore, if one doesn't worship satan, how can one be a satanist?  To make the claim that Americans appear to be both christian and satanist, lacking the semantic qualifications that you later presented, seems to me to be an obvious case of culture bias.

Quote
Quote
Apparently I did, but my argument stands.  You have a distored view of Americans and satanists.

what argument? "no" is not an argument in my book.
i have met with actual satanists and did quite a bit of reading on related philosophy.
i might have a distorted view of americans but i think i share that with the americans  Wink

You've met with actual satanists?  Who self describe themselves as satanists and worship Satan?  Or just some people that you assume fit that discription?

and in conclusion, no.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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June 26, 2012, 01:16:41 AM
 #56

Quote
You've met with actual satanists?  Who self describe themselves as satanists and worship Satan?  Or just some people that you assume fit that discription?

The only people who do are people who talk to the media and want the attention.  As in, real satanists are as rare as hens teeth.


If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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June 26, 2012, 02:23:55 AM
 #57

Oh, sorry.  I guess I'll have to spell it out.  By definition, a satanist is a person who worships Satan.  Any version of a set of mores, whether or not they might resemble those of another group or not, notwithstanding.

Therefore, if one doesn't worship satan, how can one be a satanist?  To make the claim that Americans appear to be both christian and satanist, lacking the semantic qualifications that you later presented, seems to me to be an obvious case of culture bias.

see, that wasnt so hard. now that you did spell it out, i can inform you that your definition of satanism is very outdated. modern satanism turned from literal inversion of christian morality (christian evil = their good) to inverting the underlying principles. very prominently among them the inversion of reliance upon a higher being to relying only on yourself as a source of ethics and meaning in life. even those that you can describe as theistic dont worship satan as he is depicted in christian mythology - thats pretty much exclusive to teenagers and total nutjobs.


Quote
You've met with actual satanists?  Who self describe themselves as satanists and worship Satan?  Or just some people that you assume fit that discription?

i met with people that describe themselves as satanists and did fit one of the many forms of modern satanism. mostly atheistic and unaffiliated with any particular organization, but similar in their views to either la veyan satanism or setianism.

Quote
he only people who do are people who talk to the media and want the attention.  As in, real satanists are as rare as hens teeth.

that very much depends on your definition of "real". and that might easily turn into a true scottsman. for me, what sets a "real" satanist apart from an impostor or attention whore is the disliking or even hatred of christian ethics and the will to define an intentionally contradicting ethic. depending on the individual that might be anything from "RaaarRR i wanna hurt cute animals and listen to black metal all day" to a complex and well-reflected philosophy.

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June 26, 2012, 03:32:09 AM
 #58

Hey guys it was awesome meeting you all. Porcfest was fantastic.

but I FORGOT MY BITCOINS AT HOME!!!! You guys tried to help me get them and I finally found a long lost instawallet account on the last day.

Its too bad the internet really sucks at Rogers campground.

Hey Charlie, I didn't put two and two together but I have done some business with you here on the forum. You guys were great representatives of bitcoin and I watched you set up people who didnt have a clue with bitcoin. Great job!

See you next year?

-josh
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June 26, 2012, 03:34:26 AM
 #59

Quote
that very much depends on your definition of "real". and that might easily turn into a true scottsman. for me, what sets a "real" satanist apart from an impostor or attention whore is the disliking or even hatred of christian ethics and the will to define an intentionally contradicting ethic. depending on the individual that might be anything from "RaaarRR i wanna hurt cute animals and listen to black metal all day" to a complex and well-reflected philosophy.

I don't necessarily disagree with the idea behind your statements, but to label it satanism is, frankly, preposterous.  Satanism is, by definition, centered around Satan.  Satan is nominally a Christian ideal, at least the commonly accepted definition of Satan.  You can make the claims you are making, and give them another label and I would likely agree with you... but labeling what you are calling Satanism is just plain wrong.  Satanism is previously defined, we can't just redefine words willy-nilly and have them mean whatever we want them to mean.  Satanism is the worship and/or belief in Satan.  If you are doing neither, you are, by any definition, not a Satanist.  Just because your world view and rules for living your life might coincide with another groups ideals does not mean you are part of that group or that you should be labeled as such.  

This is very similar to the problem of atheism.  Everyone, everywhere is an atheist... doesn't matter what god you believe in, there are gods you do not believe in, thus you are an atheist.  Most atheists, especially the rabid ones (who are, by the way, just as ridiculous as theists), fail to understand what true atheism is.  The real atheists, such as myself, have coined our own description: Apatheist.  If you really are an atheist, then you simply won't care whether or not God exists (or Satan for that matter) and the question as to whether he exists or not is functionally meaningless.  Most self labeled "atheists" care very much and have a vested interest in trying to prove he does not exist, which puts them squarely in the same camp as theists, they just believe in something different, but both require an equal amount of faith directly proportional to your belief.  

You'll never find a true atheist saying "Hey I'm an atheist, you are an idiot for believing in god cause he doesn't exist."  A real atheist will respond to religious topics with "Don't care. Lets talk about something that is actually meaningful."

But I digress and have taken this thread WAY the F*CK off topic and I apologize.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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June 26, 2012, 04:29:25 AM
 #60

Please do understand though, that this is a very libertarian event. People attending are expected to live up to the non-aggression principle. If seeing lots of people walking around open carrying bothers you then you won't be comfortable.
i find it rather curious that in one of the most religious first world countries people can be patriots and at the same time have a philosophy that closely resembles satanism. ok la veyan satanism mostly, and he was american and basically an atheist, but still...

OK, so, besides being completely out of left field, I might suggest a different take on this: I find it rather curious that Satanists follow a code so similar to the Non-Aggression Principal. Of course, those rules you mentioned are quite a bit more ruthless than the NAP, especially that last one.

Satanist: When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them.

Pretty harsh, if you ask me. Especially if you compare it to the NAP: No one has the right to initiate the use of force, threat of force, or fraud on another person.

Oh, and to get back on topic: I hope to be able to get to next year's Porc-fest. Fingers crossed!

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