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Author Topic: PorcFest 2012 -- Biggest Bitcoin event ever  (Read 16596 times)
fornit
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June 26, 2012, 04:38:59 AM
 #61

well, queen elisabeth doesnt actually rule england and satanists dont actually worship satan. times change and so does the meaning of words. language is not logic. look it up if you dont belief me. its long been redefined, and it wasnt me  Wink

what you describe as "true" or "real" atheism would be classified as an agnostic worldview by most people.
if you get off your true horse you might see everybody claims whatever he thinks is important is the real thing, failing to recognize that very often 99% of the rest of the world doesnt give a shit about his definition of things.
in that respect, the true scottsman is not just a rhetoric figure. many people dont realize that they incorporate their perspective into their language to a point were opposing opinions are discredited by design. as all self-immunization strategies this rather dangerous if you like to do some occasional independent thinking.
of course, strong atheism is just as ridiculous as the theism it is derived from. thats the nature of every direct negation.
 

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fornit
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June 26, 2012, 04:47:57 AM
 #62

OK, so, besides being completely out of left field, I might suggest a different take on this: I find it rather curious that Satanists follow a code so similar to the Non-Aggression Principal. Of course, those rules you mentioned are quite a bit more ruthless than the NAP, especially that last one.

Satanist: When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them.

Pretty harsh, if you ask me. Especially if you compare it to the NAP: No one has the right to initiate the use of force, threat of force, or fraud on another person.

difference is that la vey was a showman and the harsh formulation is very likely a result of that. makes the whole thing sound more "dark" than it actually is. while the non-aggression principal combined with open carrying is quite the opposite: sounds very peaceful but it seems to cry out "oh pleeeeease, fuck with me, shooting someone would really help with my anger management issues." but maybe thats just me.

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June 26, 2012, 04:56:14 AM
 #63

...the non-aggression principal combined with open carrying is quite the opposite: sounds very peaceful but it seems to cry out "oh pleeeeease, fuck with me, shooting someone would really help with my anger management issues." but maybe thats just me.

Yeah, that's you projecting. Open Carry is about asserting their right to, not about hoping to shoot someone. If they want to shoot something, there's plenty of targets down at the range.

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June 26, 2012, 05:07:39 AM
 #64

Pleassssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss discus bitcoin?  Undecided

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I advocate the Zeitgeist Movement & Venus Project.


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June 26, 2012, 05:28:03 AM
 #65

Carlos Santana was there?!

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June 26, 2012, 07:36:18 AM
 #66

In October in San Diego is Libertopia 12 (October 11-14, 2012).

 

 - http://libertopia.org/festival

Are there any other gatherings or clusters of Bitcoiners?

I also see in Las Vegas, July 11-14, 2012:

Freedom Fest
 - http://freedomfest.com/keynote-speakers/
 - http://freedomfest.com/all-other-speakers/

Looks generally focused on banking, investment and politics.

Some interesting presenters, including:
 - Tom Woods (@ThomasEWoods)
 - Jeff Berwick (@DollarVigilante)
 - Bob Prechter (@RobertPrechter) (Elliot Wave theory creator)


Then in August in Florida right before the RNC are two Libertarian events:

 - http://musicians4freedom.com/2012/06/ron-paul-supporters-now-working-on-two-pre-rnc-festivals

On August  24, 25 and 26, 2012 at the Fairgrounds in Tampa:
 
 - http://paulfestival.org

Also on Augh 24-26 in Polk County (near Tampa):

 - http://www.freedomfestival2012.com

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June 26, 2012, 07:40:04 AM
 #67

Pleassssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss discuss bitcoin?  Undecided

^this

http://twitter.com/flix1       [1FLiXK8Xh8AmCpX5izyqUyPeuTUesooYkS]
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June 26, 2012, 12:35:35 PM
 #68

well, queen elisabeth doesnt actually rule england and satanists dont actually worship satan. times change and so does the meaning of words. language is not logic. look it up if you dont belief me. its long been redefined, and it wasnt me  Wink

Then they aren't satanist.  That's pretty simple to understand, I'm surprised you are having a hard time grasping that.  They may be something else, but they aren't satanists.  I'm not sure what Queen Elisabeth has to do with the discussion, as the analogy is not even vaguely similar.

Yes, language changes, but the definition of a descriptive term does not change, otherwise it's not a descriptive term.  A "satanist" is defined as one who worships satan, go ahead and look it up if you'd like.  If you aren't worshiping satan, you are not a satanist.  I suspect, though, that you are just using that term to garner attention and be inflammatory.

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what you describe as "true" or "real" atheism would be classified as an agnostic worldview by most people.

Wow, you really have no idea what the definition of words are, do you?  Agnosticism is nothing like apatheism.  Agnostics are the undecided.  They do not know whether a deity exists or not.  That is very different from not caring or the question being completely meaningless.  There's a thing called the Agnostics prayer, you might want to look it up.  It describes agnosticism fairly well.

I have absolutely no idea what  "true horse" or a "true scottsman" is, nor do I see how it relates to anything being discussed.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
fornit
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June 26, 2012, 02:45:11 PM
 #69

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism#Atheistic.2FDeistic_Satanism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism#Types_of_agnosticism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Scotsman_problem

catch up on your reading.

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June 26, 2012, 03:58:15 PM
 #70


The first sentence of the page you linked to proves my point
Quote
Agnosticism is the view that the truth values of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—are unknown or unknowable.
You also linked to a link that proves my point:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatheism

As for Satanism, you also linked to the article that proves my point.  I'm not sure which point you were trying to make with the link, but since you mentioned LeVey, I will pull the relevant portion from that section of the article:

Quote
LaVeyan Satanists are atheists who regard Satan as a symbol of man's inherent nature.

See that "Who regard Satan" bit?  Yeah... so, you were saying?

Thanks for the True Scotsman link, it is interesting.  But what's a "True horse?"



If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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June 26, 2012, 05:11:28 PM
 #71

I think Aristotle has a solution to this problem.

satan = imaginary
porcfest = real
libertarians = real
guns = real
bitcoin = real

ergo

satan != porcfest
satan != libertarians
satan != guns
satan != bitcoin

Please go hijack some other topic. Isn't there a paranoid evangelical forum somewhere on the internet where they're all too happy to discuss satan and his 20 followers?

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June 26, 2012, 06:50:04 PM
 #72


Please go hijack some other topic. Isn't there a paranoid evangelical forum somewhere on the internet where they're all too happy to discuss satan and his 20 followers?

If there is, it's probably European.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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June 26, 2012, 09:57:14 PM
 #73

Here are some more pics (thanks Vanessa), for those interesting in coming next year:






http://lamassubtc.com/
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June 26, 2012, 11:32:11 PM
 #74

Why is religion everywhere? I've had a hard long day and I come here to geek out over science, nerdy stuff and bitcoin and there is a bloody raging religion conversation in every single place. I want some peace. Blaa blaa God metaphysics - no one cares.
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June 26, 2012, 11:38:00 PM
 #75

Why is religion everywhere? I've had a hard long day and I come here to geek out over science, nerdy stuff and bitcoin and there is a bloody raging religion conversation in every single place. I want some peace. Blaa blaa God metaphysics - no one cares.

Actually, there was barely any religion at Porcfest. I was expecting to have alot more conversation about it as well.

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June 27, 2012, 12:17:04 AM
 #76

Why is religion everywhere? I've had a hard long day and I come here to geek out over science, nerdy stuff and bitcoin and there is a bloody raging religion conversation in every single place. I want some peace. Blaa blaa God metaphysics - no one cares.

Actually, there was barely any religion at Porcfest. I was expecting to have alot more conversation about it as well.

You missed the Christian Anarchist meeting.

As I recall, there was also a Shabbat meeting on Friday.

At least we made the daily atheist drinkathon.

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June 27, 2012, 01:32:21 AM
 #77

I have nothing against religion. It's just depressing when people get focused on the fine details and differences between peoples, instead of looking at the bigger picture and thinking how we can make things better for all. Details that cause killing between one group of brown people that pray to a wall and another group of brown people to pray to a black rock - both the same people.

Well Carl Sagan says it better than I do, and this video often tears me up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pfwY2TNehw
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Charlie 'Van Bitcoin' Shrem


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June 27, 2012, 01:34:15 AM
 #78

Why is religion everywhere? I've had a hard long day and I come here to geek out over science, nerdy stuff and bitcoin and there is a bloody raging religion conversation in every single place. I want some peace. Blaa blaa God metaphysics - no one cares.

Actually, there was barely any religion at Porcfest. I was expecting to have alot more conversation about it as well.

You missed the Christian Anarchist meeting.

As I recall, there was also a Shabbat meeting on Friday.

At least we made the daily atheist drinkathon.

oh shit I missed the Shabbat thing....I think we were NEFT'ing

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June 27, 2012, 08:23:37 AM
 #79

Quote
that very much depends on your definition of "real". and that might easily turn into a true scottsman. for me, what sets a "real" satanist apart from an impostor or attention whore is the disliking or even hatred of christian ethics and the will to define an intentionally contradicting ethic. depending on the individual that might be anything from "RaaarRR i wanna hurt cute animals and listen to black metal all day" to a complex and well-reflected philosophy.

I don't necessarily disagree with the idea behind your statements, but to label it satanism is, frankly, preposterous.  Satanism is, by definition, centered around Satan.  Satan is nominally a Christian ideal, at least the commonly accepted definition of Satan.  You can make the claims you are making, and give them another label and I would likely agree with you... but labeling what you are calling Satanism is just plain wrong.  Satanism is previously defined, we can't just redefine words willy-nilly and have them mean whatever we want them to mean.  Satanism is the worship and/or belief in Satan.  If you are doing neither, you are, by any definition, not a Satanist.  Just because your world view and rules for living your life might coincide with another groups ideals does not mean you are part of that group or that you should be labeled as such.  

This is very similar to the problem of atheism.  Everyone, everywhere is an atheist... doesn't matter what god you believe in, there are gods you do not believe in, thus you are an atheist.  Most atheists, especially the rabid ones (who are, by the way, just as ridiculous as theists), fail to understand what true atheism is.  The real atheists, such as myself, have coined our own description: Apatheist.  If you really are an atheist, then you simply won't care whether or not God exists (or Satan for that matter) and the question as to whether he exists or not is functionally meaningless.  Most self labeled "atheists" care very much and have a vested interest in trying to prove he does not exist, which puts them squarely in the same camp as theists, they just believe in something different, but both require an equal amount of faith directly proportional to your belief.  

You'll never find a true atheist saying "Hey I'm an atheist, you are an idiot for believing in god cause he doesn't exist."  A real atheist will respond to religious topics with "Don't care. Lets talk about something that is actually meaningful."

But I digress and have taken this thread WAY the F*CK off topic and I apologize.


Ask the Church of Satan if you want to know what Satanism is, you'll find a great many people they kicked out for expressing belief in an actual being named Satan - because he is after all not a real being but instead merely a symbol.
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June 27, 2012, 10:27:57 AM
 #80

LaVey Satanism is extreme individualism.

AynRandism is extreme individualism.

Hence the connection I guess.

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