Bitcoin Low Market Cap compared to the Big Banks ...

[yrask]

The new Bitcoin ETF could be a game changer when it comes online - Wall Street can throw $20B around like it's nothing. Case in point - GoPro

Exactly. Wait the Bitcoin ETF of the Winklevoss Brother and you'll see (maybe) a market capitalization of bitcoin around 200 billion of dollars ! It's possible? I guess yes

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[Meuh6879]

5 years would be more realistic IMO.

Yep :

5 years to grow ...
5 years to known ...
5 years to use ...

and ... FIAT will be gone.

[LucidChaos]

Define the word "value". What does in mean to us? If you have 320 in fiat and 1 btc which converts to the equivalent amount, ask yourself which one do you think is worth more in term of purchasing power and in terms of actual value measured as hedge against inflation? Market cap is just a representation when you compared it back against fiat. So why bother to use that?

I agree with this. Once bitcoin reaches a certain point it will be almost irrelevant to assign it a fiat spot price.

Do we measure emails in terms of how many paper envelopes they can displace?

[franky1]

Define the word "value". What does in mean to us? If you have 320 in fiat and 1 btc which converts to the equivalent amount, ask yourself which one do you think is worth more in term of purchasing power and in terms of actual value measured as hedge against inflation? Market cap is just a representation when you compared it back against fiat. So why bother to use that?

I agree with this. Once bitcoin reaches a certain point it will be almost irrelevant to assign it a fiat spot price.

Do we measure emails in terms of how many paper envelopes they can displace?

we need to measure bitcoin based on a cost of living index.
something that can be measured universally and something that all people can easily imagine and calculate and understand how valuable/cheap/expensive it is.
for instance if we say bitcoin is 1 weeks cost of living.
EG 150 loaves of bread or 40 hours of minimum wage labour in whatever native fiat they please.

that way if the russian ruble collapses and next year it costs 10x as much for a loaf of bread. bitcoin is not measured at the ruble price.. but at a weeks cost of living. to ensure people always get paid enough to live on no matter how their native currency fluctuates.

[exoton]

The new Bitcoin ETF could be a game changer when it comes online - Wall Street can throw $20B around like it's nothing. Case in point - GoPro

Exactly. Wait the Bitcoin ETF of the Winklevoss Brother and you'll see (maybe) a market capitalization of bitcoin around 200 billion of dollars ! It's possible? I guess yes

That might be a bit of a stretch. Just because wall street is involved in something does not mean it magically has massive amounts of value. Although additional money will likely pour into bitcoin, just not that much.

[merry0652]

I think most people in bitcoin don't realize what etf is or can do

[youngmike]

I think most people in bitcoin don't realize what etf is or can do

I think people who still own bitcoin can't realise it was one of worst performed investments in 2014 and is going slowly down 2015  

[bornil267645]

That's the point, people are expecting too much from a currency that is too small.

[botany]

The new Bitcoin ETF could be a game changer when it comes online - Wall Street can throw $20B around like it's nothing. Case in point - GoPro

Exactly. Wait the Bitcoin ETF of the Winklevoss Brother and you'll see (maybe) a market capitalization of bitcoin around 200 billion of dollars ! It's possible? I guess yes

The wait for the Bitcoin ETF gets longer and longer. I do hope it provides some solid price support when it does enter the market. The volatility could also increase, as people withdrawing funds would result in rapid price drops.

[franky1]

The new Bitcoin ETF could be a game changer when it comes online - Wall Street can throw $20B around like it's nothing. Case in point - GoPro

Exactly. Wait the Bitcoin ETF of the Winklevoss Brother and you'll see (maybe) a market capitalization of bitcoin around 200 billion of dollars ! It's possible? I guess yes

The wait for the Bitcoin ETF gets longer and longer. I do hope it provides some solid price support when it does enter the market. The volatility could also increase, as people withdrawing funds would result in rapid price drops.

ETF's HOARD coins.. thats the main premiss. its not like coinbase or bitstamp where people deposit coins and withdraw FIAT, but on a larger scale...
instead people buy baskets of coins off the existant markets and OTC's.. (10k coin baskets so imagine nice big price jumps per basket) they then put the into a trust fund. and then let other people play 'the markets' based on SHARES of the coins that are in trust.

so chances of a price drop are far far far far less then the price rise

[MarketNeutral]

It's difficult comparing Bitcoin to anything, especially banks. Is Bitcoin a currency? A commodity? A commodity with monetary properties? If so, then why compare a currency to a for-profit company, which is what a bank is? Yet they are in competition, so I can also see why one would compare them. A better comparison might be ceteris paribus over time and with regard to exchange rates, the delta of BTC's volume against the volume of SWIFT, Western Union, MoneyGram, and other global remittance systems. Yet one would still be comparing Bitcoin to a few specific mediums that use nation-state currencies, another difficult comparison considering the differences between Bitcoin and nation-state currencies.

[gargantuar]

It's difficult comparing Bitcoin to anything, especially banks. Is Bitcoin a currency? A commodity? A commodity with monetary properties? If so, then why compare a currency to a for-profit company, which is what a bank is? Yet they are in competition, so I can also see why one would compare them. A better comparison might be ceteris paribus over time and with regard to exchange rates, the delta of BTC's volume against the volume of SWIFT, Western Union, MoneyGram, and other global remittance systems. Yet one would still be comparing Bitcoin to a few specific mediums that use nation-state currencies, another difficult comparison considering the differences between Bitcoin and nation-state currencies.

smarty-pants here. Now i have some Latin to google. Love it!

[botany]

The new Bitcoin ETF could be a game changer when it comes online - Wall Street can throw $20B around like it's nothing. Case in point - GoPro

Exactly. Wait the Bitcoin ETF of the Winklevoss Brother and you'll see (maybe) a market capitalization of bitcoin around 200 billion of dollars ! It's possible? I guess yes

The wait for the Bitcoin ETF gets longer and longer. I do hope it provides some solid price support when it does enter the market. The volatility could also increase, as people withdrawing funds would result in rapid price drops.

ETF's HOARD coins.. thats the main premiss. its not like coinbase or bitstamp where people deposit coins and withdraw FIAT, but on a larger scale...
instead people buy baskets of coins off the existant markets and OTC's.. (10k coin baskets so imagine nice big price jumps per basket) they then put the into a trust fund. and then let other people play 'the markets' based on SHARES of the coins that are in trust.

so chances of a price drop are far far far far less then the price rise

I agree that initially there will be a substantial price jump because of all the money flowing into the ETF.
But at some point, the fund must permit withdrawals, right? This could result in large price movements.....

[moriartybitcoin]

this is why the banks do not fear bitcoin .. YET

[Gianluca95]

Bitcoins marketcap looks to be very low at 4 billion compared to the Banks and Visa markets which are around 200 billion, how long do you think  it will take bitcoin to reach somewhere or at least half way there?

I'd say at least 2 years for bitcoin to atleast hit a 25-70 billion market cap

You have inserted an high stack (from 25 billion to 70 billion). More precisely I can say you that Bitcoin is not a bank, but a payment method like VISA, master card, paypal ecc. If you see bitcoin in this way, I can agree with you on thing that (hope that this will happen naturally) bitcon in future will process 70-100 billion of dollars transaction everyday.

[malaimult]

The new Bitcoin ETF could be a game changer when it comes online - Wall Street can throw $20B around like it's nothing. Case in point - GoPro

Exactly. Wait the Bitcoin ETF of the Winklevoss Brother and you'll see (maybe) a market capitalization of bitcoin around 200 billion of dollars ! It's possible? I guess yes

The wait for the Bitcoin ETF gets longer and longer. I do hope it provides some solid price support when it does enter the market. The volatility could also increase, as people withdrawing funds would result in rapid price drops.

ETF's HOARD coins.. thats the main premiss. its not like coinbase or bitstamp where people deposit coins and withdraw FIAT, but on a larger scale...
instead people buy baskets of coins off the existant markets and OTC's.. (10k coin baskets so imagine nice big price jumps per basket) they then put the into a trust fund. and then let other people play 'the markets' based on SHARES of the coins that are in trust.

so chances of a price drop are far far far far less then the price rise

To be fair, people can (and probably will) sell bitcoin in 10k basket sized trades as well when the price of the ETF rises above the exchange rate.

All that the ETF will do is provide additional liquidity and make it more difficult to manipulate the price, although the net effect will likely be that the price increases

[botany]

The new Bitcoin ETF could be a game changer when it comes online - Wall Street can throw $20B around like it's nothing. Case in point - GoPro

Exactly. Wait the Bitcoin ETF of the Winklevoss Brother and you'll see (maybe) a market capitalization of bitcoin around 200 billion of dollars ! It's possible? I guess yes

The wait for the Bitcoin ETF gets longer and longer. I do hope it provides some solid price support when it does enter the market. The volatility could also increase, as people withdrawing funds would result in rapid price drops.

ETF's HOARD coins.. thats the main premiss. its not like coinbase or bitstamp where people deposit coins and withdraw FIAT, but on a larger scale...
instead people buy baskets of coins off the existant markets and OTC's.. (10k coin baskets so imagine nice big price jumps per basket) they then put the into a trust fund. and then let other people play 'the markets' based on SHARES of the coins that are in trust.

so chances of a price drop are far far far far less then the price rise

To be fair, people can (and probably will) sell bitcoin in 10k basket sized trades as well when the price of the ETF rises above the exchange rate.

All that the ETF will do is provide additional liquidity and make it more difficult to manipulate the price, although the net effect will likely be that the price increases

That is always welcome. If it becomes more difficult to manipulate the price, more investors will be attracted to bitcoin.