Casper Hornstrup (OP)
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May 19, 2011, 09:19:28 PM
Last edit: November 01, 2012, 03:26:17 PM by Casper Hornstrup |
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Carandiru
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May 19, 2011, 09:22:36 PM |
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I'm really not convinced that "many" people will be able to do this, it will be cost prohibitive. I think a better solution would do be deny MAC address of the "few" FPGA clusters.
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MoonShadow
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May 19, 2011, 09:22:59 PM |
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IP rationing was considered early on, and rejected for other reasons. There is no way to limit the miners based on their choice of tech, and even the FPGA's will be undercut by the first ASIC based PCI mining card to be released. And if Bitcoin is even moderately successful, we will see such a card being sold publicly within three years.
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"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."
- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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MoonShadow
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May 19, 2011, 09:24:41 PM |
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I'm really not convinced that "many" people will be able to do this, it will be cost prohibitive. I think a better solution would do be deny MAC address of the "few" FPGA clusters.
The network doesn't track mac addresses. Even if it did, pretty much every one of the concerns with IP based distribution applies equally to mac addresses. |
"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."
- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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Nesetalis
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May 19, 2011, 09:26:30 PM |
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oh, didnt you know? even in windows you can change your mac address with only a handful of clicks :p even aunt tilly could do it. so how would you enforce these clusters?
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ZOMG Moo!  |
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gerryk
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May 19, 2011, 09:36:50 PM |
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I'm really not convinced that "many" people will be able to do this, it will be cost prohibitive. I think a better solution would do be deny MAC address of the "few" FPGA clusters.
Who's to decide what level of processing power deserves denial? What if I buy a bunch of GPUs? Should I be denied? |
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ryepdx
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May 19, 2011, 09:37:31 PM |
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Bitcoin is a full on capitalistic implementation of a cryptocurrency. Because of the need to mine and because of its anonymity, trying to enforce any kind of regulation will be hopeless. The only option we have is to compete, compete, compete.
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MoonShadow
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May 19, 2011, 09:39:32 PM |
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I'm really not convinced that "many" people will be able to do this, it will be cost prohibitive. I think a better solution would do be deny MAC address of the "few" FPGA clusters.
Who's to decide what level of processing power deserves denial? What if I buy a bunch of GPUs? Should I be denied? Even if we could actually deterimine this, we shouldn't limit mining based on tech. The goal is to make the blockchain as secure from brute force attack as is possible. If we limit ourselves to certain tech, then there will be tech out there that is fundamentally faster at the task, and an attacker isnt' going to be so inclined to limit themselves to follow our rules. Beyond that, a fpga card in a computer is a very useful thing. If bitcoin mining encourages the wide adoption of fpga's into desktops then other programs are going to start making use of those same cards. |
"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."
- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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davout
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1davout
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May 19, 2011, 09:42:47 PM |
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I remember people complaining about how closed source GPU miners are so unfair to those mining with CPUs.
Now everyone mines with a GPU we end up with a much stronger network.
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colossus
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Obey me and live or disobey and die.
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May 19, 2011, 09:47:29 PM |
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I remember people complaining about how closed source GPU miners are so unfair to those mining with CPUs.
Now everyone mines with a GPU we end up with a much stronger network.
So true, i guess the problem is, 1 i don't have enough cash to buy a decent fpga, 2 i would struggle to set it up, but your right perhaps someone will be kind enough to produce a step by step guide on how to build one. |
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MoonShadow
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May 19, 2011, 09:47:44 PM |
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I remember people complaining about how closed source GPU miners are so unfair to those mining with CPUs.
Now everyone mines with a GPU we end up with a much stronger network.
Yeah. It's the "these new advancements in technology are going to destroy the weavers!" issue all over again. |
"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."
- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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MoonShadow
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May 19, 2011, 09:48:47 PM |
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I remember people complaining about how closed source GPU miners are so unfair to those mining with CPUs.
Now everyone mines with a GPU we end up with a much stronger network.
So true, i guess the problem is, 1 i don't have enough cash to buy a decent fpga, 2 i would struggle to set it up, but your right perhaps someone will be kind enough to produce a step by step guide on how to build one. Wait long enough, and someone will be selling plug&play PCI expansion cards and you won't have to understand anything about the tech at all. |
"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."
- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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colossus
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May 19, 2011, 09:52:41 PM |
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well i still think we are forgetting that these things are pretty specialist, and sure there are most likely a couple of clusters out there already but they were not built specifically for bitcoin, buidling a uber rig from fpga specifically for bitcoin? i wonder would you ever pay it back?
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davout
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1davout
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May 19, 2011, 09:54:17 PM |
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I remember people complaining about how closed source GPU miners are so unfair to those mining with CPUs.
Now everyone mines with a GPU we end up with a much stronger network.
You can still have a stronger network with proprietary and open source FPGAs even if there was a limit. Why not have an even *strongerer* network then. Please, read and think about this thread -> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=1332.0Bitcoin is a full on capitalistic implementation of a cryptocurrency. Because of the need to mine and because of its anonymity, trying to enforce any kind of regulation will be hopeless. The only option we have is to compete, compete, compete.
Not really since Bitcoin already enforces some rules to increase chances of success with great success so far. What are you talking about ? |
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MoonShadow
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May 19, 2011, 09:54:21 PM |
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I remember people complaining about how closed source GPU miners are so unfair to those mining with CPUs.
Now everyone mines with a GPU we end up with a much stronger network.
You can still have a stronger network with proprietary and open source FPGAs even if there was a limit. But if there is a limit, then you can never know if it's the strongest. Logicly speaking, any limit on the choice of tech will effectively result in a network somewhat less secure than otherwise. |
"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."
- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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colossus
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Obey me and live or disobey and die.
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May 19, 2011, 09:59:00 PM |
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well bitcoin is actually the worlds most powerfull supercomputer right? so how strong does it need to be.  |
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MoonShadow
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May 19, 2011, 10:03:27 PM |
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well bitcoin is actually the worlds most powerfull supercomputer right? so how strong does it need to be. It needs to continue to be the worlds most powerful supercomputer. New tech moves the bar a little higher. Bitcoin must keep up with that tech. |
"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."
- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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fpgaminer
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May 19, 2011, 10:09:10 PM |
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So true, i guess the problem is, 1 i don't have enough cash to buy a decent fpga, 2 i would struggle to set it up, but your right perhaps someone will be kind enough to produce a step by step guide on how to build one. If you buy a Cyclone 4 dev kit right now ($600USD), I can give you software to have it up and mining with just a few clicks. Seriously. The only reason I haven't made that software public is because I don't think anyone is crazy enough to spend $600 for a measly 50 or 80 MH/s  |
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bittersweet
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May 19, 2011, 10:09:26 PM |
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It's like average CPU minining people complained that people with cash for expensive GPU cards kicked them from mining market. And no more coins for people mining on laptops. Now it's your turn I don't get why would that be a bad thing. |
My Bitcoin address: 1DjTsAYP3xR4ymcTUKNuFa5aHt42q2VgSg
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davout
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1davout
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May 19, 2011, 10:16:22 PM |
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The only reason I haven't made that software public is because I don't think anyone is crazy enough to spend $600 for a measly 50 or 80 MH/s If that's the only reason then you should make it public anyway, it might always help someone. But I don't really get what all that FGPA thing is all about, AFAIU you don't get much Hashes/$ but you do get lots of Hashes/Watt amirite ? |
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