Murder or homocide if admittedly fooled into having anal sex with a man?

[contagion]

You are a drunk, stupid, hormone crazed young serviceman strutting out on the prostitution nightlife for some nookie. You take a hot "chick" back to the hotel and screw her tight hole.

Suddenly you realize in your stupor you were having anal sex and she has a cock.

Repulsed into a rage you strangle her to death.

Murder or homocide?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2875565/U-S-Marine-admitted-drowning-transgender-woman-toilet-born-man-say-prosecutors.html

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/384552/news/nation/your-friend-killed-my-friend-what-pemberton-s-marine-pals-recall-about-night-of-laude-killing

http://time.com/3533496/philippines-transgender-marine-joseph-scott-pemberton-jennifer-laude/

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/115917/pemberton-submits-to-court-custody-seeks-reduction-of-murder-rap-to-homicide/


My opinion is both parties are culpable thus frustrated homocide not premeditated murder. A transgender should know that some heterosexual macho servicemen are going to be extremely repulsed in anger if they are fooled into having sex with a member of their same sex. I've occasioned on these transgender gays in the Philippines (in the streets of Cebu and Davao, not even in a bar) and they overtly come on to me with a level of disrespect (even blocking my path and trying to force a close encounter) for my sexual preference which is abusive. And I don't believe Laude wasn't a sex worker, meaning he was preying on the customer as much as the customer was preying on "her". Wouldn't have been in that bar that services US military otherwise. I and the filipinos know how this works over here.

I do feel empathy for the victim and the victim's family. The soldier should have been more careful and should have restrained his rage should he not want to go to prison. But still rage is a form of homocide, not murder. Study the law. Murder requires premeditation.

Of course the soldier put himself in harm's way, has taken someone's life and even tormented the victim in his rage, and now has to pay the price. But 20 years for homicide seems more than enough. Should also teach both the male partakers of nightlife and the transgenders to be more respectful and wary as well.

Also you have to factor in that soldiers are trained to kill. Their mindset has been programmed. And this is a young man, who is surely not able to think on his feet when drunk and having violated himself in abhorrent degree w.r.t. to his sexual preference.

Very predictable to see this happen eventually. I was warned long ago to be careful not to accidentally end up in bed with an Asian transgender. Some of them are very attractive and sexy. If you were very drunk, you could be fooled.


P.S. This soldier has surely been instructed to go along with the political show, and later as it dies down from public view, charges will be reduced and/or get released early and/or pay off the victim's family to get charges dropped. The victim's family may just be posturing for more money, as apparently this Laude was willing to risk "her" life to try to get money for sex by seducing servicemen. There are many honest ways to earn money now in the Philippines. That doesn't I mean I have no empathy for the victim, but let's be realistic how this game of life is played.

Bottom line is stay as far away from this shady nightlife as you can. Woe will eventually find you there.

[Lethn]

If you don't have any self-control when you're drunk, you shouldn't be drinking to begin with, most people know how much they can take and whether or not they cope well with being drunk and frankly someone in the army should know better.

[contagion]

If you don't have any self-control when you're drunk, you shouldn't be drinking to begin with, most people know how much they can take and whether or not they cope well with being drunk and frankly someone in the army should know better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_%28United_States_law%29#Degrees_of_murder_in_the_United_States

   First-degree murder is any intentional murder that is willful and premeditated with malice aforethought. Felony murder is typically first-degree.[6] The definition of 1st-degree murder is similar under Canadian law.

    Second-degree murder is an intentional murder with malice aforethought, but is not premeditated or planned in advance.[7]

    Voluntary manslaughter (also referred to as third-degree murder), sometimes called a "Heat of Passion" murder, is any intentional killing that involved no prior intent to kill, and which was committed under such circumstances that would "cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed". Both this and second-degree murder are committed on the spot, but the two differ in the magnitude of the circumstances surrounding the crime. For example, a bar fight that results in death would ordinarily constitute second-degree murder. If that same bar fight stemmed from a discovery of infidelity, however, it may be mitigated to voluntary manslaughter.

Apparently in the Philippines, 'homicide' is differentiated from 'murder' as second or third-degree is differentiated from first-degree above.


He is clearly not subject to the charge of first-degree murder. All the evidence shows he did not premediate it.  It is clearly a rage killing.

Sorry you voters don't respect the law.

How can we have a rule of law and not rule of the MOB emotions if people can't even think logically about the law as written.

[Lethn]

I'm not arguing with the definition and I've been the only one that's replied so far LOL what I question is why is it somehow more excusable if some twat who's overly temperamental and can't control himself can get an easier sentence than somebody who planned it.

I get that we're all human and make mistakes, but there's a question of where you draw the line and I think somebody who thinks they can fly into a rage and just randomly strangle someone to death because they had a bad day and get away with it is that for me.

[contagion]

He didn't randomly strangle some innocent person walking down the street. He went to a bar known for picking up prostitutes, as a young, inexperienced 19 year old FOB (fresh off the boat) in a foreign land (and had just completed a military training exercise on killing earlier that day) and was I assume fooled by a much more experienced 26 year old transvestite into having sex with what he thought was a female. When he realized he had been fooled into committing what from his perspective on sexuality I assume is essentially akin to fucking his own grandmother in the ass, he was so horrified he lost his mind. If that is not accurate, then let the prosecutor prove so beyond a reasonable doubt, because as I remember we are innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Also he should be entitled to fair trial amongst a jury of his peers, since he was there on official duty which he had no control over. But he can't get a fair unbiased trial because he has no peers in a country that has been oppressed by colonialists for centuries.

I don't agree with what he did. I also don't think the transvestites should feel sorry for themselves when they try to corrupt men much younger and more innocent than themselves.

There is some shared culpability here. And surely when you go to a hotel with a total stranger, cheating on your German bf who is supporting you financially, and going with a clearly a hormone filled, very athletic young soldier, you had better have a little bit fear and caution. "She" didn't and paid the serendipity price for it.

Sad outcome really.

I also think he went way too far. I could understand maybe he beat "her" for seducing him, but killing "her" is going to cost him some serious disruption to his life.

Also it is clear he didn't even know the correct term (which attests to his inexperience) as he said to his friends, "I think I killed a he/she".

Now if he admits or it can be proven he knew "her" gender in advance or had any premeditated intention to hurt a homosexual as his motive, then my stance would change.

We don't put juveniles in prison for life. We try to reform them. He was only 1 year out of juvenile and not even of legal age to buy alcohol in some jurisdictions.

The US military should be on trial also, not just the boy. They use these gullible, naive young men, and indoctrinate them in killing from a very young age.

Hopefully everyone will come to their senses and he will be allowed to be rehabilitated in a western prison. If they throw him in a Philippine prison, if he doesn't get preferential treatment, then his health could radically decline.

http://www.preda.org/en/media/research-documents/the-situation-of-the-philippine-penitentiaries/

[im0rtel]

this joker deserves 20 years in the slammer .

[contagion]

this joker deserves 20 years in the slammer .

That is apparently the typical sentence for homicide in the Philippines. Whereas, the sentences for first-degree murder range (in some countries) from 40 year to life to death penality.

Spelling homocide in the OP is intentional emotional poking to see if homo-sympathetics are objective.

The entire thing is so sad yet simultaneously hilariously bizarre in a dark humor way. In short, "one night in BanKock" can ruin your life.

If you were drunk and 19 years old, would you not think this is a female:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pz4DHFbaGQ

[madmadmax]

A beta faggot gets mad over another faggot and kills the latter? It isn't much better than the occasional retard that can't get it up, gets embarrassed and kills someone.

[exoton]

If you don't have any self-control when you're drunk, you shouldn't be drinking to begin with, most people know how much they can take and whether or not they cope well with being drunk and frankly someone in the army should know better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_%28United_States_law%29#Degrees_of_murder_in_the_United_States

   First-degree murder is any intentional murder that is willful and premeditated with malice aforethought. Felony murder is typically first-degree.[6] The definition of 1st-degree murder is similar under Canadian law.

    Second-degree murder is an intentional murder with malice aforethought, but is not premeditated or planned in advance.[7]

    Voluntary manslaughter (also referred to as third-degree murder), sometimes called a "Heat of Passion" murder, is any intentional killing that involved no prior intent to kill, and which was committed under such circumstances that would "cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed". Both this and second-degree murder are committed on the spot, but the two differ in the magnitude of the circumstances surrounding the crime. For example, a bar fight that results in death would ordinarily constitute second-degree murder. If that same bar fight stemmed from a discovery of infidelity, however, it may be mitigated to voluntary manslaughter.

Apparently in the Philippines, 'homicide' is differentiated from 'murder' as second or third-degree is differentiated from first-degree above.


He is clearly not subject to the charge of first-degree murder. All the evidence shows he did not premediate it.  It is clearly a rage killing.

Sorry you voters don't respect the law.

How can we have a rule of law and not rule of the MOB emotions if people can't even think logically about the law as written.

By your wiki definition this would probably not be considered murder, but probably rather manslaughter. Although a good defense attorney may be able to plea it down to involuntary manslaughter due to the fact that he was drunk at the time

[rokkyroad]

Shitty thread.

[BitMos]

Shitty thread.

Dear Contagion I really like your view point, how you take consideration of both side. A very nice proof of maturity. For me these are the threads with enough energy to explode most death stars, they ask the deepest knowledge and experience since childhood of Freedom of Speech to be exploited, which I sadly don't have. They permit to brought to light certain realities, that even if for someone are to be denied, can't be ignored by the realists.

Personally reading this thread it confirmed a lot of what I believe and illustrate certain of my previous posts and it asks myself a few questions. But first to answer your question, I think it's a Voluntary manslaughter. There is no excuses for being drunk. He wasn't forced to be. He now assumes what he did. He doesn't have to answer to the justice of the Philippines, but the one of the US military.  Furthermore it's again another illustration of why moving past the MIIC for everyone is a positive improvement. But as many are still fathoming to destroy the Empire of Love, let me ask how could US military personal be allowed to drink under 21? As an American Mother, Sister, Bride, GF and co (that's the equivalent of bringing both Force combined, which render close to null the energy of this thread), what's going on?

An Army isn't made to maintain the Peace, but to bring death&destruction to the foreign and domestic enemies of the Constitution and Bill of Rights of the United States of America and then return Home.

Bottom line is stay as far away from this shady nightlife as you can. Woe will eventually find you there.

+1, do you know what all Parrots on Pirate Ships repeated?

The Ship is always safer - Smoking weed - playing game - boozing on the deck is always safer, and frankly we didn't came here to visit - have fun but to wage war, if you prefer to listen to the sirens than me (The Parrot always took an offended face looking at the town's lights of deceits when saying this part), please leave now, you are not a Pirate^tm.  

And you know what all the Parrots did afterward? they flew toward the light. the young sailors asked and was answered by the People of the Seas, that when and where ever the ship leave he/she will always flew back. It's just for the local food .

And personally, I think that the Philippine are a dent of vipers, be aware. Population explosion + lack of morality = rampant prostitutions destroying the "fabric" of the nation it self... I didn't expect less from this nation. However I don't understand why the People there let the situation degenerates to this point?

[contagion]

FILIPINO = TRIBALISM

Filipinos are very sociable, but even while they may love you, if they can't take advantage of you, they typically have no use for you. No all filipinos, but a large enough percentage that you will statistically be prey here. Of course all cultures have this selfish, but what makes the filipino variety special is that they hide it expertly (they even believe the lie themselves which makes it more convincing) and do not believe in self-responsibility or admitting responsibility. It is always someone else fault that they live their lives with haphazard planning. Two famous sayings here are "move on" and "depende sa hangin" (follow the changing the wind"). Never do they remember what they did. The rear view mirror doesn't exist. If you said this over here, you would "persona na grata", they really take it personally when you criticize their culture (because you are attacking their tribe), unlike us Americans who love to criticize our culture and each other.

Filipinos love to gossip and spread the worst untrue rumors about you behind your back. You will suddenly wonder why all your neighbors are acting strange to you...didn't you know you've been fucking your 17 year old maid? Yeah you are the last person to find out about your sex life. Well not that the majority of foreigners over here don't deserve such a reputation.

However I don't understand why the People there let the situation degenerates to this point?

Money. Culture. Tribal culture means everybody trying to backstab another and get theirs for their own. Influence of learning to frustrate the Spanish colonialism, where by ignoring directives, the Spanish weren't omniscient. The trait of being happy in the moment, since planning didn't work out in that chaotic environment and don't need planning here because no winter, everything grows year round. Learning to be happy with very little material things, so they don't need you, unless they can get something. And they consume those extras immediately because for them it is all just for the moment.

If that "happy go lucky" life has a bad luck, they will blame on you if they are at fault, and if you are at fault, they will spare no effort to extract a very high price from you. Never do they allow their tribe to be the loser.

If they believe they are getting more from you than they normally should be able to get (i.e. more than other tribes get from foreigners), they will be very proud and all smiles. Spoil them (e.g. bring one to your own country) and the level of gifts you must provide to them will increase significantly.

If you see filipinos working very hard abroad, it is because they are sacrificing for their tribe. That doesn't change the above traits.

Don't get me wrong. Lots of adorable filipinos, but the veneer rubs off eventually. No culture is perfect. Just be aware of the differences.

And Philippines has improved a lot in terms of material quality of life since the 1990s. And radically so since the 1970s. I live over here and get along okay, because I understand the culture.

[Spendulus]

You are a drunk, stupid, hormone crazed young serviceman strutting out on the prostitution nightlife for some nookie. You take a hot "chick" back to the hotel and screw her tight hole.

Suddenly you realize in your stupor you were having anal sex and she has a cock.

Repulsed into a rage you strangle her to death.

Murder or homocide?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2875565/U-S-Marine-admitted-drowning-transgender-woman-toilet-born-man-say-prosecutors.html

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/384552/news/nation/your-friend-killed-my-friend-what-pemberton-s-marine-pals-recall-about-night-of-laude-killing

http://time.com/3533496/philippines-transgender-marine-joseph-scott-pemberton-jennifer-laude/

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/115917/pemberton-submits-to-court-custody-seeks-reduction-of-murder-rap-to-homicide/


My opinion is both parties are culpable thus frustrated homocide not premeditated murder. A transgender should know that some heterosexual macho servicemen are going to be extremely repulsed in anger if they are fooled into having sex with a member of their same sex. I've occasioned on these transgender gays in the Philippines (in the streets of Cebu and Davao, not even in a bar) and they overtly come on to me with a level of disrespect (even blocking my path and trying to force a close encounter) for my sexual preference which is abusive. And I don't believe Laude wasn't a sex worker, meaning he was preying on the customer as much as the customer was preying on "her". Wouldn't have been in that bar that services US military otherwise. I and the filipinos know how this works over here.

I do feel empathy for the victim and the victim's family. The soldier should have been more careful and should have restrained his rage should he not want to go to prison. But still rage is a form of homocide, not murder. Study the law. Murder requires premeditation.

Of course the soldier put himself in harm's way, has taken someone's life and even tormented the victim in his rage, and now has to pay the price. But 20 years for homicide seems more than enough. Should also teach both the male partakers of nightlife and the transgenders to be more respectful and wary as well.

Also you have to factor in that soldiers are trained to kill. Their mindset has been programmed. And this is a young man, who is surely not able to think on his feet when drunk and having violated himself in abhorrent degree w.r.t. to his sexual preference.

Very predictable to see this happen eventually. I was warned long ago to be careful not to accidentally end up in bed with an Asian transgender. Some of them are very attractive and sexy. If you were very drunk, you could be fooled.


P.S. This soldier has surely been instructed to go along with the political show, and later as it dies down from public view, charges will be reduced and/or get released early and/or pay off the victim's family to get charges dropped. The victim's family may just be posturing for more money, as apparently this Laude was willing to risk "her" life to try to get money for sex by seducing servicemen. There are many honest ways to earn money now in the Philippines. That doesn't I mean I have no empathy for the victim, but let's be realistic how this game of life is played.

Bottom line is stay as far away from this shady nightlife as you can. Woe will eventually find you there.

Bullshit.  No need for the rationalizations and justifications.

Two people went into a room, one came out.  One was killed.  The other admits to the deed.

Sure it falls into the general category of an act committed in rage, with high emotions.  Sure the guy should get some leniency in sentencing for that.

But there isn't any reason to go over the particulars of the guy's mental attitudes.  In the US, wouldn't this be an example of a case where someone got a harsher sentence, because it would be considered a "hate crime?"

Of course that's even more ridiculous.

[blablahblah]

You are a drunk, stupid, hormone crazed young serviceman strutting out on the prostitution nightlife for some nookie. You take a hot "chick" back to the hotel and screw her tight hole.

Suddenly you realize in your stupor you were having anal sex and she has a cock.

Repulsed into a rage you strangle her to death.

Murder or homocide?

My opinion is both parties are culpable thus frustrated homocide not premeditated murder.

So, "homicide" = accidental murder? Not sure if I can handle such high-level mental gymnastics this close to xmas.

Quick question:
Does "latent prejudice" count as a form of premeditation? After all, the hatred/disgust/whatever was just sitting there in the perpetrator's mind the entire time, like a ticking time-bomb, just waiting for him to get drunk so he could violently overreact.

I don't see any point in the US habit of distinguishing between premeditation and non-premeditation. It just means that the smarter the killer, the more likely they are to get away with a light sentence or none at all.

[spazzdla]

That is rape if you were to be a woman and he would be facing jail time.  As you are a man, to bad "man up".  OOH I LOVE THE WESTERN COUNTRIES.. not.

[jjacob]

You are a drunk, stupid, hormone crazed young serviceman strutting out on the prostitution nightlife for some nookie. You take a hot "chick" back to the hotel and screw her tight hole.

Suddenly you realize in your stupor you were having anal sex and she has a cock.

Repulsed into a rage you strangle her to death.

Murder or homocide?

My opinion is both parties are culpable thus frustrated homocide not premeditated murder.

So, "homicide" = accidental murder? Not sure if I can handle such high-level mental gymnastics this close to xmas.

Quick question:
Does "latent prejudice" count as a form of premeditation? After all, the hatred/disgust/whatever was just sitting there in the perpetrator's mind the entire time, like a ticking time-bomb, just waiting for him to get drunk so he could violently overreact.

I don't see any point in the US habit of distinguishing between premeditation and non-premeditation. It just means that the smarter the killer, the more likely they are to get away with a light sentence or none at all.

homicide = accidental murder?
There was nothing accidental about this guy's action.