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Author Topic: So, will you put your things where your mouth is?  (Read 4350 times)
Pubulis01
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August 23, 2010, 03:10:22 AM
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http://www.biddingpond.com/item.php?id=45

Go ahead, see if I'm serious!
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kiba
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August 23, 2010, 03:44:15 AM
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Few will bid unless it is seriously under priced. When they do, they will have emotional investment and will eventually drive up to approximately where the price you want it to be.

BioMike
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August 23, 2010, 05:23:39 AM
 #3

Quote from: Biddinpond Usage Terms & Conditions
You may not create a link to this website from another website or document without BiddingPond.com’s prior written consent.

Did you get permission? Or are you violating the terms and conditions that you agreed on when signing up?  Roll Eyes
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August 23, 2010, 05:27:32 AM
 #4

 
Quote from: Biddinpond Usage Terms & Conditions
You may not create a link to this website from another website or document without BiddingPond.com’s prior written consent.

Is he for real?!

Can you link me to the terms so I can verify that craziness?

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August 23, 2010, 05:31:01 AM
 #5

Should this move to the marketplace?

Is there escrow? This is way to big to just send to a stranger with no rep at all.

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BioMike
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August 23, 2010, 05:34:02 AM
 #6


Quote from: Biddinpond Usage Terms & Conditions
You may not create a link to this website from another website or document without BiddingPond.com’s prior written consent.

Is he for real?!

Can you link me to the terms so I can verify that craziness?


Sorry, I also agreed with those terms, so I'm not able to link myself Wink
Go to biddingpond and click on the "Terms and conditions" link in the bottom.
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August 23, 2010, 06:31:26 AM
 #7

I can't remember if I made an account or not. Oh, wait I did; I made a bid even. If I delete it can I regain my linking freedom?

I hate to bitch about someone who's obviously doing great service for bitcoin, but rejecting that kind of controlling crap is why I'm here at all.

 

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mizerydearia
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August 23, 2010, 07:31:03 AM
 #8

This post licensed under LGPL 3.0 - The main difference between the GPL and the LGPL is that the latter can be linked to

I think I covered most argumentative efforts on everyone's behalf in this post.  If I missed any, feel free to add.  Sorry to hijack thread. ^_^

Quote from: Biddinpond Usage Terms & Conditions
You may not create a link to this website from another website or document without BiddingPond.com’s prior written consent.

Did you get permission? Or are you violating the terms and conditions that you agreed on when signing up?  Roll Eyes

here's a workaround: http://is.gd/eye7L

It is in the terms of service and I, for one, will boycott BiddingPond for such patheticism.

I hate to bitch about someone who's obviously doing great service for bitcoin, but rejecting that kind of controlling crap is why I'm here at all.

Open source and freedom ftw!  BiddingPond has a bit of evilness it seems.  Perhaps it can sell it as one of its auctions and then it won;t be evil after someone buys it?

There have been some disputes about links that bypass a site's home page, because this practice may cut into the linked site's advertising revenues.

Does BiddingPond even have advertisements?  I don't know, I use adblock and adblock element hiding helper

http://lorelle.wordpress.com/2007/01/12/link-etiquette-you-do-not-need-permission-to-link/
http://www.pcuser.com.au/pcuser/hs2.nsf/lookup+1/3557B242FF65D1C0CA25706800280D9D
http://www.templetons.com/brad/linkright.html
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20071017/092927.shtml
http://www.linksandlaw.com/linkingcases.htm

Perhaps if the community is to consider BiddingPond a major contender in auction type of site for Bitcoin currency, then maybe linking to a google cache (shortened via url shortening service or lmgtfy.com) is another alternative, however, doing so is extra unnecessary effort.

http://biddingpond.com/robots.txt doesn't seem to exist

As it stands now, there appears to be a doctrine of implied public access on the Web. The Web was created on the basis of being able to attach hypertext links to any other location on the Web. Consequently, by putting yourself on the Web, you have given implied permission to others to link to your Web page, and everyone else on the Web is deemed to have given you implied permission to link to their Web pages.

"My view is the reason you put stuff on the Web is so people can link to it," Abelson said. "If you look at the technical architecture of the Web, it's designed so that any part can link to any other part."

"For me to back down now would be saying that I was violating the law--and I'm not," Peck said. "But we don't have a huge bankroll to say, 'Hey, take us to court.'" -- In my case, I have no money whatsoever, but I will fight till the end.  Take me to court!  I insist!

BiddingPond: If you don't want links to your auctions, either prevent access from referrals (not reliable, but useful to prevent most lazy computer users from accessing your site) or otherwise implement the service on some protocol other than http/https.

Can you guess how many links are in this post?  Should I be afraid of violating anyone's terms of service?

What's next?
-

http://www.unhappybirthday.com/
I suggest on Bitcoin's next birthday several of us prepare a public performance singing the song and then report ourselves to ASCAP.  Maybe they will accept settlement in Bitcoins?
Macho
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August 23, 2010, 08:11:27 AM
 #9

Quote from: Biddinpond Usage Terms & Conditions
You may not create a link to this website from another website or document without BiddingPond.com’s prior written consent.

What? Sounds like the BiddingPond is more like a Pond of Evil Cheesy

I'm not sure they can even do that legally, first amendment and all but legal or not it goes directly against my personal principles so I'll not spend a Bitcoin there and tell everyone I can to do the same. Vote with your Bitcoins Wink
semyazza
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August 23, 2010, 08:51:06 AM
 #10

Quote from: Biddinpond Usage Terms & Conditions
You may not create a link to this website from another website or document without BiddingPond.com’s prior written consent.

What? Sounds like the BiddingPond is more like a Pond of Evil Cheesy

I'm not sure they can even do that legally, first amendment and all but legal or not it goes directly against my personal principles so I'll not spend a Bitcoin there and tell everyone I can to do the same. Vote with your Bitcoins Wink

The intent of that line was to avoid hyper linking directly to images to keep bandwidth costs from getting out of control. I have reworded the terms of service to reflect my intent.
Quote
You may not create a link to this website from another website with the intent to bypass the "Main Page" or other documents without BiddingPond.com’s prior written consent. For purposes of this paragraph "Main Page" refers to any page and/or document that is intended to be viewed as a whole.

mizerydearia
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August 23, 2010, 08:53:27 AM
 #11

Quote
You may not create a link to this website from another website with the intent to bypass the "Main Page" or other documents without BiddingPond.com’s prior written consent. For purposes of this paragraph "Main Page" refers to any page and/or document that is intended to be viewed as a whole.

Yay!  *happeh*  Smiley Grin Cheesy Kiss
FreeMoney
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August 23, 2010, 10:00:53 AM
 #12

So we do have your permission to link to our auctions? Those are "main pages"?

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BitLex
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August 23, 2010, 12:49:05 PM
 #13

So we do have your permission to link to our auctions? Those are "main pages"?
i wouldn't think so.
sounds to me like "promote us is ok, promote your auction is not",
although it says
Quote
For purposes of this paragraph "Main Page" refers to any page and/or document that is intended to be viewed as a whole.
now.

do you really think, your users read and understand what you mean by that?
if you dont want them to hotlink images, why not tell them?
theres other ways to stop people from hotlinking your images and stealing your bandwidth (is it that high yet?).




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August 23, 2010, 12:54:32 PM
 #14

wtf?

What is the point if you cant promote your listing?
FreeMoney
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August 23, 2010, 12:59:56 PM
 #15

So we do have your permission to link to our auctions? Those are "main pages"?
i wouldn't think so.
sounds to me like "promote us is ok, promote your auction is not",
although it says
Quote
For purposes of this paragraph "Main Page" refers to any page and/or document that is intended to be viewed as a whole.
now.

do you really think, your users read and understand what you mean by that?
if you dont want them to hotlink images, why not tell them?
theres other ways to stop people from hotlinking your images and stealing your bandwidth (is it that high yet?).


Yeah, T&C are bullshit. I mean are you really giving me an ultimatum? Don't you even want to put in a text box for a counter offer of terms? Does this need to be this way?

If someone said "Please don't use up my bandwidth by hotlinging images, there is no way I'd ignore that." And if someone ignores you does it really matter if it was in the T&C? Are we going to court now?

I'm sure you just used T&C because it's common, so I don't mean to blast you. But it would be awesome to do buisness with people who do it differently.

All that said, do you ever hold funds or are payments handled by the parties directly?

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TTBit
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August 23, 2010, 01:08:13 PM
 #16

I don't understand all the hate.

You can link to individual auctions, but you can't hotlink to a cool arrow graphic that biddingpond uses.

good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment
BitLex
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August 23, 2010, 01:47:43 PM
 #17

what hate?
aren't we allowed to discuss things?

nothing to say against some kind of hotlink-protection,
it's just that those kind of paragraphs force misunderstandings and are the reason, people end up on courts.

i don't hate people or services that have strange T&Cs, i just try to avoid them.

semyazza
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August 23, 2010, 02:24:32 PM
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So we do have your permission to link to our auctions? Those are "main pages"?
Main page refers to any page on the site that is intended to be viewed as a whole. Permission is granted for linking to auctions in the terms of service

Quote
i wouldn't think so.
sounds to me like "promote us is ok, promote your auction is not",
although it says
Promotion of individual auctions is fine. So everybody knows, I consider myself a reasonable person and any reasonable use of material is acceptable and if I find a use of the site that is not in the terms of service and I find it reasonable it will be added. The same goes that if I find a use that is not reasonable I will modify the terms of service and contact the appropriate party and ask them to discontinue the unacceptable use. This is the internet and I believe highly in fair use and sharing but must weigh that against the costs of bandwidth(not a problem in the foreseeable future)


Quote
For purposes of this paragraph "Main Page" refers to any page and/or document that is intended to be viewed as a whole.
now.

do you really think, your users read and understand what you mean by that?
if you dont want them to hotlink images, why not tell them?
theres other ways to stop people from hotlinking your images and stealing your bandwidth (is it that high yet?).


I believe most users will understand and those who don't, will ask for clarification if they believe they are not practicing fair use. I will also have users who don't care. There are many ways to stop people from hot linking images both legal and technical.

The reason I do not state specifically "no image hotlinking!" is there are many other site linkings that are for nefarious purposes that would make an exhaustive list impossible. One example that comes to mind is the attempted database injections (which require unauthorized linking and/or access to the site) all of last week that were thwarted by my good filtering code, coding practices and other counter measures.

With that said...

I can only promise to be reasonable and do the right thing.

I believe reasonable people will do the reasonable thing. I also believe that I do not wish to do business with unreasonable people and the biddingpond.com(and bitcoin) community will want to do the same(profitable and easy transactions the exception, let people be unreasonable then). That is also the reason why I have a two way feedback system unreasonable buyers and sellers will quickly weed themselves out (implementation to filter buyers based on feedback rating is in the works).

This is also the reason why I think non reversibility of transactions are appropriate for a bidding site(bitcoins). It eliminates buyer fraud and extortion. The feedback system eliminates other types of fruad and marginalizes them very quickly(both parties can leave feeedback.

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August 23, 2010, 02:25:14 PM
 #19

Yeah, I don't have any hate. I try to say in every post in this thread that I appreciate people who make sites that take bitcoin. But if we don't let people know what we find bothersome and unpleasant then the world will be unpleasant for us. Maybe it will anyway.

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semyazza
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August 23, 2010, 02:30:45 PM
 #20

So we do have your permission to link to our auctions? Those are "main pages"?

Yes, full permission is given to link to individual auctions for legitimate purposes. I am a fond believer of if the users do the right thing there is nothing to worry about. At no point was the terms of service to hamper legitimate fair use of links and information on the site. The terms of use are there to notify illegitimate users that bandwidth theft(image hot linking) and other nefarious uses are not allowed.  If image hot linking does become a problem and countermeasures are constantly thwarted I will just start charging for image hosting.
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