BFL, Why is Dwolla & Paypal not an option anymore for ASIC?

[Paladin69]

Not enough people are questioning this.  Dwolla & Paypal give you an avenue for recourse if something goes wrong.  BTC and Bankwire does not.  No chargebacks.

I am confused as to why they once accepted Dwolla & Paypal for their equipment but no longer do.  What gives?

[SgtSpike]

To give current miners an edge over other people.

[BFL]

That's correct.  We wanted to give existing miners a bit of an edge through this release as another way to ease the transition from GPU to ASIC.  PayPal and Dwolla will be added relatively soon.  However, for the moment... the additional exposure for Bit-Pay and their excellent platform is worthy of the spotlight.  They've really worked hard to bring a top notch solution to market and we're proud to help them showcase their wares.  Altruism aside, the benefits for a merchant like us are significant as well.  You get payment certainty, instant transactions and a significant reduction in risk complexity as compared to other payment methods (rolling reserve etc).

Having said that, I know many customers are asking for PayPal / Dwolla and we'll open up the payment methods soon to accommodate.

[BitPay Business Solutions]

October is beyond the chargeback period for PayPal and Dwolla, so any ability to reverse the payment 4-5 months from now would not exist in this situation.  Those payment methods would not offer any advantages over bitcoins or bank wire, other than being more convenient if you already had money positioned with that service.

You can buy bitcoins with Dwolla right now at

https://campbx.com

and the prices are low there, so you can buy them at CampBX at a rate cheaper than what you will be quoted when you make your purchase, effectively getting you a discount on the equipment.

if you have popmoney or ING Person2person, you can deposit at Bitfloor exchange, their prices to buy bitcoins are also cheaper than what you will be quoted when you spend on the equipment.

https://bitfloor.com

If you are looking to make a large bitcoin purchase over $10,000 USD, or looking to buy your bitcoins back after you make your purchase, please contact me at tony@bitpay.com .  I would rather return these BTC to circulation to private buyers than just sell them on an exchange.

[Paladin69]

That's correct.  We wanted to give existing miners a bit of an edge through this release as another way to ease the transition from GPU to ASIC.  PayPal and Dwolla will be added relatively soon.  However, for the moment... the additional exposure for Bit-Pay and their excellent platform is worthy of the spotlight.  They've really worked hard to bring a top notch solution to market and we're proud to help them showcase their wares.  Altruism aside, the benefits for a merchant like us are significant as well.  You get payment certainty, instant transactions and a significant reduction in risk complexity as compared to other payment methods (rolling reserve etc).

Having said that, I know many customers are asking for PayPal / Dwolla and we'll open up the payment methods soon to accommodate.

How about those that want to upgrade who already gave you an $18 grand "edge" and still yet have product in their hands?

Your policy of BTC first using bit-pay would still work just fine if all four options were available since the payment method will always be instant.

[Stephen Gornick]

Not enough people are questioning this.  Dwolla & Paypal give you an avenue for recourse if something goes wrong.  

Heh, Dwolla wouldn't do much unless you claimed you hadn't authorized the transfer.   Did you enter a PIN to place the order? 

They would work with law enforcement authorities though with the identity of any parties that had received the funds.

I am confused as to why they once accepted Dwolla & Paypal for their equipment but no longer do.  What gives?

I do know that PayPal prohibits their service being used for pre-sales, where delivery doesn't occur shortly after payment.   

In fact, pre-sales offered in this manner might even be in violation with U.S. regulators.

[Raize]

In fact, pre-sales offered in this manner might even be in violation with U.S. regulators.

Non-refundable layaway fees are okay, but for the entire cost to be non-refundable is something the FTC regularly pursues as a deceptive business practice.

[BR0KK]

Simple answer to the question "why no pp or bank wire"

Cause u can refund your money more or less easy

[squall1066]

Simple answer to the question "why no pp or bank wire"

Cause u can refund your money more or less easy

As far as i know you cant reclaim money from a bank wire, when it's transferd, its gone. Correct me if i'm wrong.

Also i understand not using PP, As an flea-bay seller, we don't get all the money, there is a fee, and is biased to the buyer, so there are more "reverse scammers" out there as I call it.

[BR0KK]

here in germany that is possible even if the money is transferred (to my knowledge) . just call your bank ant tell them that they didn't deliver as promised (fraud) and they will charge it back to your account (might cost a little bit but it is possible).

if u payed via PP its just a mouse click away (when u ar in the charge back period) or just tell pp that BFL didn't deliver ....

[MXRider]

Why is everyone so concerned about the option for a refund? I can't think of any possible situation where a refund would be possible (or a wise thing to ask).

We are buying a product which is planned to ship in 6 months. You can ask for a refund if they don't ship in 2012. Does paypal offer refund after 6 months? No. How about dwolla? No. Same applies to banks.

Let's say you want a refund in october. That's before the scheduled shipment date so your on your own. Same thing as ordering a pizza and telling that you don't want it anymore.

Cliffs: STOP WORRYING ABOUT REFUNDS!!!

[Mike Hearn]

The right solution here is integrating dispute mediation protocols into Bitcoin.

  https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts#Example_2:_Escrow_and_dispute_mediation

For those who don't know, it's possible to send coins such that they require a 2-of-3 signature to recover. In such a setup, you find a neutral dispute mediator and sign the coins over with a (buyer, seller, mediator) CHECKMULTISIG script.

If buyer and seller agree the transaction went through OK, the mediator does not (cannot) get involved.

If there is a dispute, the mediator can break the tie and decide who gets the coins.

At no point can the mediator steal the coins. Therefore, there is little financial incentive to hack them - you don't need to trust them to hold your money, which lowers the barriers to entry significantly. All a mediator needs is a reputation for fairness in resolving disputes. Because it'd be so easy to set one up, mediators that specialize in certain sorts of transactions become both possible and likely.

The software for this doesn't exist today. It would be an interesting project to implement it.

[GernMiester]

The way BFL keeps hawking bitpay sounds like they have something to lose if it fails.....

[nandika]

as an experienced paypal & ebay member having several restricted accounts I'm thinking about this:

paypal limits the account if suddenly a lot of transactions flow in (like it did on bitpay when they announced pre-order). even higher chance for a restricted account, if they try to withdraw some of or all the received funds.

when paypal limits their account, they request for a tracking number, since the payment was for "goods", which need to be shipped.

BFL won't be able to provide the tracking numbers for the transactions, so their money would sit for 6 months at least.

If I were BFL I wouldn't use PayPal for preorders either.

[MXRider]

as an experienced paypal & ebay member having several restricted accounts I'm thinking about this:

paypal limits the account if suddenly a lot of transactions flow in (like it did on bitpay when they announced pre-order). even higher chance for a restricted account, if they try to withdraw some of or all the received funds.

when paypal limits their account, they request for a tracking number, since the payment was for "goods", which need to be shipped.

BFL won't be able to provide the tracking numbers for the transactions, so their money would sit for 6 months at least.

If I were BFL I wouldn't use PayPal for preorders either.

PayPal is also known for closing customer accounts with no explanation. I personally don't want to keep several thousand dollars in PP if they can close my account whenever they decide to do so. Bitcoin stuff sold for bitcoins.