Darkcoin Branding

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

Please visit the Darkcointalk forum to hear the differing opinions on this issue, and then return here to vote:

https://darkcointalk.org/threads/whats-in-a-name-or-is-a-rose-by-any-othername-worth-the-trouble.3310/

Please note, this poll is just to get the lay of the land on the Darkcoin community's thoughts on this issue, results will not be binding on Darkcoin's future at this time!

Thank you for voting,

Tao

[unent]

If you change it's name anyone out of touch for a while will not even know it still exists.

[oblox]

If you change it's name anyone out of touch for a while will not even know it still exists.

No different than the case of changing from XCoin to Darkcoin. It's easier to rebrand now before getting larger. Besides, with the email blasts as is for all the mandatory upgrades, a name change and reasons why would easily be able to be mentioned to those on the list. Further, a client message, similarly to a new update prompt could also mention of the rebranding. It certainly shouldn't happen without a full PR detailing the reasons why or happen overnight. It should be well throughout with pros and cons weighed on both sides.

It's not as if you are exchanging your coins for a new coin, it's cosmetic more than anything to appeal to larger audiences.

[RenegadeMan]

It's not so much about "sticking to our roots" Tao, it's about the name's ability to instantly (InstantXly?) define that Darkcoin addresses the entire realm of ever increasing  government and big business incursion into the financial transactions of everyone. Its name is an immediate differentiator to Bitcoin and sets it apart from virtually everything else. While many people are very worried about the name's almost total (in perception) connection to the world of nefarious human activity, that's one way of defining the word "dark" and doesn't mean it will always be seen this way. The name carries connotations that are both positive and negative.

I've voted to keep it as Darkcoin; I don't think it could have a better name that ruffles feathers so much and gives it such an edge. There just isn't another name that comes close to cutting  through rhetoric and making it clear as to exactly what it achieves. So many businesses won't touch it, but many others will and as attitudes to the "I'm from the government. I'm here to help" assurance start to wane towards the realisation this is often a facade, there'll be greater widespread understanding as to what anonymity is really all about and the lights will start to come on in people's thinking.

Darkcoin; forever Dark!

[oblox]

It's not so much about "sticking to our roots" Tao, it's about the name's ability to instantly (InstantXly?) define that Darkcoin addresses the entire realm of ever increasing  government and big business incursion into the financial transactions of everyone. Its name is an immediate differentiator to Bitcoin and sets it apart from virtually everything else. While many people are very worried about the name's almost total (in perception) connection to the world of nefarious human activity, that's one way of defining the word "dark" and doesn't mean it will always be seen this way. The name carries connotations that are both positive and negative.

I've voted to keep it as Darkcoin; I don't think it could have a better name that ruffles feathers so much and gives it such an edge. There just isn't another name that comes close to cutting  through rhetoric and making it clear as to exactly what it achieves. So many businesses won't touch it, but many others will and as attitudes to the "I'm from the government. I'm here to help" assurance start to wane towards the realisation this is often a facade, there'll be greater widespread understanding as to what anonymity is really all about and the lights will start to come on in people's thinking.

Darkcoin; forever Dark!

Ruffles feathers, perhaps, but the average person struggling to understand bitcoin will be far less likely to want to adopt something named Darkcoin. By all means, I am 100% content with the name and leaving it as is... if everyone realizes any chance of mainstream adoption is off the table. Regulations aside (which will already be a hurdle due to the privacy-centric nature of the coin), there is far more perceived negativeness to the name as it stands. If it's agreed to stay the same, then wasting resources on mainstream adoption seems fruitless, and any large scale marketing firm should be able to further reiterate that fact. If the name stays, then market towards the neglected undergrounds markets--black market, gambling, and porn. The biggest problem I see right now with Darkcoin is the fact that it is trying to do too much with no clear direction. If you are pitching mainstream adoption, really, the name has to be changed. Mom and pop shops, grandmas, etc, just aren't going to understand it--even after the learning curve to understand crypto. If you are keeping it the same, then the push should be towards underground trade that is going to continue to happen regardless and gambling (large enough markets in their own right).

It's the stubbornness right now and the fanboyism in not seeing the forest through the trees to only look at the crypto market as the sole influence for branding.

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

Thanks for your responses so far, this will be an interesting thread, hopefully keeping branding talk off the main thread....

[RenegadeMan]

It's not so much about "sticking to our roots" Tao, it's about the name's ability to instantly (InstantXly?) define that Darkcoin addresses the entire realm of ever increasing  government and big business incursion into the financial transactions of everyone. Its name is an immediate differentiator to Bitcoin and sets it apart from virtually everything else. While many people are very worried about the name's almost total (in perception) connection to the world of nefarious human activity, that's one way of defining the word "dark" and doesn't mean it will always be seen this way. The name carries connotations that are both positive and negative.

I've voted to keep it as Darkcoin; I don't think it could have a better name that ruffles feathers so much and gives it such an edge. There just isn't another name that comes close to cutting  through rhetoric and making it clear as to exactly what it achieves. So many businesses won't touch it, but many others will and as attitudes to the "I'm from the government. I'm here to help" assurance start to wane towards the realisation this is often a facade, there'll be greater widespread understanding as to what anonymity is really all about and the lights will start to come on in people's thinking.

Darkcoin; forever Dark!

Ruffles feathers, perhaps, but the average person struggling to understand bitcoin will be far less likely to want to adopt something named Darkcoin. By all means, I am 100% content with the name and leaving it as is... if everyone realizes any chance of mainstream adoption is off the table. Regulations aside (which will already be a hurdle due to the privacy-centric nature of the coin), there is far more perceived negativeness to the name as it stands. If it's agreed to stay the same, then wasting resources on mainstream adoption seems fruitless, and any large scale marketing firm should be able to further reiterate that fact. If the name stays, then market towards the neglected undergrounds markets--black market, gambling, and porn. The biggest problem I see right now with Darkcoin is the fact that it is trying to do too much with no clear direction. If you are pitching mainstream adoption, really, the name has to be changed. Mom and pop shops, grandmas, etc, just aren't going to understand it--even after the learning curve to understand crypto. If you are keeping it the same, then the push should be towards underground trade that is going to continue to happen regardless and gambling (large enough markets in their own right).

It's the stubbornness right now and the fanboyism in not seeing the forest through the trees to only look at the crypto market as the sole influence for branding.

I agree with you Oblox (and enjoy all your posts too). The "Darkcoin's all about anonymity, but wait, it also now does InstantX which is a game changer!" is confusing if we start pushing InstantX as the main feature to facilitate wide-spread adoption. You're 100% right about mainstream adoption being off the table with the name Darkcoin; it's just never going to get up. The mere mention of the "dark net" or "dark markets" is a complete and total turn off for the mainstream. People who occupy the world of nine to five, regular income, stock-standard finances and bank accounts/credit cards will have about as much interest in a thing called Darkcoin as they will with Silkroad; they're just not going to have anything to do with it. So Darkcoin will initially be addressing the darker side of human financial transaction activity. And while I'm not at all comfortable to be marketing it this way (and frankly each time I hear someone getting all excited about how the drugs, gambling and porn industries "will just love it" it makes me feel even less attracted to it) I think the natural uptake in these realms will bolster Darkcoin and give it a huge leg up. Then, if we keep pushing for clarity that Darkcoin is about privacy as a human right, eventually the concept that, just because it's used by people doing illegal things doesn't mean it's "bad" in the same way that the US dollar is used by people doing illegal things yet it's not considered bad, will start to dawn on people and there'll be less worry about it.

There's a big fight brewing over privacy and the big guns (like what we saw from the MasterCard exec talking down crypto in his Youtube video) are going to attempt to convince the public that cash is bad and only the big financial institutions have the legitimacy and appropriate tools. During this mindset war, Darkcoin (with it's outrageously in-your-face name that describes exactly what its about) is likely to become the poster-child of what/why financial privacy is so important and it will be attacked on every front as being "badder than bad". I think its name will (over the very long term) be an asset but we're going to go through hell first.

The alternative is to completely re-brand but I think that's actually far riskier and I can't see what that pathway genuinely entails that will result in it having any specific edge. InstantX maybe, but that's a hell of a big unknown i.e. we really don't know if it's going to be "a few seconds" or 20 to 30 seconds or potentially longer once it's deployed for POS applications in the field. If InstantX still requires 30 seconds or so to confirm that's way longer than current credit cards can provide and it won't be acceptable (think about a long line of customers at the checkout at Walmart; 30 seconds for each customer where they're probably currently getting around 5 seconds adds long delays; retailers won't accept it).

Good discussion (and yes, the "fanboy" element worries me too).

[Lauda]

There is no need to go into this deeply. The matter is yet simple and complicated at the same time.
Here is an example: if Bitcoin was to be renamed this second to xxxcoin, it would be way to damaging for the coin and it would eventually die instead of progress.
You have your answer. Darkcoin was pretty well known over the course of the year.

[astrobitcoin]

if darkcoin changes name, can i make a coin called dark coin?   

[oblox]

There is no need to go into this deeply. The matter is yet simple and complicated at the same time.
Here is an example: if Bitcoin was to be renamed this second to xxxcoin, it would be way to damaging for the coin and it would eventually die instead of progress.
You have your answer. Darkcoin was pretty well known over the course of the year.

You're seriously trying to compare changing the name of something that has been established since 2008-2009 to something that is almost a year old. Further, Bitcoin having far more exposure, invested infrastructure and branding behind it? Please tell me this is not the basis of your argument... that's just silly. It would be far easier and productive trying to change the name now in Darkcoin than trying to change it years down the road.

[RenegadeMan]

if darkcoin changes name, can i make a coin called dark coin?   

Potentially yes (depending on the resources of the Darkcoin Foundation to try and restrict someone back-filling the hole left). And that is another reason why there's considerable risk associated with changing the name.

[oblox]

if darkcoin changes name, can i make a coin called dark coin?   

Potentially yes (depending on the resources of the Darkcoin Foundation to try and restrict someone back-filling the hole left). And that is another reason why there's considerable risk associated with changing the name.

It's difficult because unlike phone numbers and stock trading symbols, there is no limitation to (example, 6 months) how long a name or symbol is locked up to prevent someone else from using it. The rebranding would need to be immensely thought out from securing domain names, filing appropriate paperwork for the foundation on name change, and keeping exchanges and pools in the loop in order to make it successful. It's not impossible and it will take some effort but it all depends on if this effort is worth it from a pros/cons standpoint. Again, something the foundation and team need to discuss. There is no discounting the fact that Darkcoin as a name and brand has established itself in short order in the crypto world, but that's just one small market in global commerce with tens of thousands of brands. It's shortsighted to exclusively focus on crypto as a marketplace. But if you think small, you'll be small.

[qwizzie]

voted for keeping the name darkcoin and seriously hope this will put an end to this discussion once and for all
as this is dragging on way too long.

Reason why i voted for keeping the name is simple, its well-known by now with its current name Darkcoin and
i dont see any problem using this name for now and for in the future. Also it fits with the already developed
technologies like Dark Gravity Wave and Darksend.

The name Darkcoin is already a powerfull branding name on itself, lets not try to fix what dont need fixing.



  

[oblox]

voted for keeping the name darkcoin and seriously hope this will put an end to this discussion once and for all
as this is dragging on way too long.

Reason why i voted for keeping the name is simple, its well-known by now with its current name Darkcoin and
i dont see any problem using this name for now and for in the future. Also it fits with the already developed
technologies like Dark Gravity Wave and Darksend.

The name Darkcoin is already a powerfull branding name on itself, lets not try to fix what dont need fixing.



  

How many people have you talked to in person that found the same appeal in the name as you? How many merchants have you brought on to accept Darkcoin as is? You preach that it's well known, but you're losing focus on how large a market there is out there. Just because it has recognition in crypto realms doesn't mean it has any recognition for mass adoption. Simply put, I'd wager there will be significant hurdles in finding venture capital willing to invest in the coin as is. I'd wager trying to sell the technology and brand as is to Joe Smith down the street is going to be an uphill battle, one that very well could be achievable but most definitely difficult.

I like the Darkcoin name, but Mary down the street thinks it's all about illegal activities and nefarious acts. There is nothing inherently illegal about maintaining privacy, but privacy is just one aspect of the coin now--InstantX when completed will be the other side of the coin.

[qwizzie]

voted for keeping the name darkcoin and seriously hope this will put an end to this discussion once and for all
as this is dragging on way too long.

Reason why i voted for keeping the name is simple, its well-known by now with its current name Darkcoin and
i dont see any problem using this name for now and for in the future. Also it fits with the already developed
technologies like Dark Gravity Wave and Darksend.

The name Darkcoin is already a powerfull branding name on itself, lets not try to fix what dont need fixing.



 

How many people have you talked to in person that found the same appeal in the name as you? How many merchants have your brought on to accept Darkcoin as is? You preach that it's well known, but you're losing focus on how large a market there is out there. Just because it has recognition in crypto realms doesn't mean it has any recognition for mass adoption. Simply put, I'd wager there will be significant hurdles in finding venture capital willing to invest in the coin as is. I'd wager trying to sell the technology and brand as is to Joe Smith down the street is going to be an uphill battle, one that very well could be achievable but most definitely difficult.

I like the Darkcoin name, but Mary down the street thinks it's all about illegal activities and nefarious acts. There is nothing inherently illegal about maintaining privacy, but privacy is just one aspect of the coin now--InstantX when completed will be the other side of the coin.

All i see in here is a couple of people who are really really trying to press this matter no matter what (and its pretty much the same people on BCT, Darkcointalk and now this seperate BTC talk topic). The reason i voted in the first place is to not let my vote get lost, tbh i find the whole voting nonsense right now.
 
Furthermore putting this topic up in the altcoin section will probly end up doing more damage as it sends out an wrong signal to everyone in the altcoin community, that the Darkcoin community is deeply devided about this while we are most certainly not. Great marketing strategy guys.. well done.
We should have kept this internal, on our own forums.

   
       

[Lauda]

There is no need to go into this deeply. The matter is yet simple and complicated at the same time.
Here is an example: if Bitcoin was to be renamed this second to xxxcoin, it would be way to damaging for the coin and it would eventually die instead of progress.
You have your answer. Darkcoin was pretty well known over the course of the year.

You're seriously trying to compare changing the name of something that has been established since 2008-2009 to something that is almost a year old. Further, Bitcoin having far more exposure, invested infrastructure and branding behind it? Please tell me this is not the basis of your argument... that's just silly. It would be far easier and productive trying to change the name now in Darkcoin than trying to change it years down the road.

No I'm not trying, I've compared them.
Go ahead change the name and see what happens.

[oblox]

voted for keeping the name darkcoin and seriously hope this will put an end to this discussion once and for all
as this is dragging on way too long.

Reason why i voted for keeping the name is simple, its well-known by now with its current name Darkcoin and
i dont see any problem using this name for now and for in the future. Also it fits with the already developed
technologies like Dark Gravity Wave and Darksend.

The name Darkcoin is already a powerfull branding name on itself, lets not try to fix what dont need fixing.



  

How many people have you talked to in person that found the same appeal in the name as you? How many merchants have your brought on to accept Darkcoin as is? You preach that it's well known, but you're losing focus on how large a market there is out there. Just because it has recognition in crypto realms doesn't mean it has any recognition for mass adoption. Simply put, I'd wager there will be significant hurdles in finding venture capital willing to invest in the coin as is. I'd wager trying to sell the technology and brand as is to Joe Smith down the street is going to be an uphill battle, one that very well could be achievable but most definitely difficult.

I like the Darkcoin name, but Mary down the street thinks it's all about illegal activities and nefarious acts. There is nothing inherently illegal about maintaining privacy, but privacy is just one aspect of the coin now--InstantX when completed will be the other side of the coin.

All i see in here is a couple of people who are really really trying to press this matter no matter what (and its pretty much the same people on BCT, Darkcointalk and now this seperate BTC talk topic). The reason i voted in the first place is to not let my vote get lost, tbh i find the whole voting nonsense right now.
 
Furthermore putting this topic up in the altcoin section will probly end up doing more damage as it sends out an wrong signal to everyone in the altcoin community, that the Darkcoin community is deeply devided about this while we are most certainly not. Great marketing strategy guys.. well done.
We should have kept this internal, on our own forums.

    
      

I'll be the first to admit, every other name change suggestion till now (and it seems to happen every couple of months) I have been against, but with recent developments of InstantX, it seems now there is much more potential in usage than just those focusing on privacy. I think it's worth at least discussing. There is a very real possibility that nothing comes about, but at least it is discussed from those at have vested interests in the coin itself and to those that MIGHT be future users down the road. Having an educational discussion about pros and cons is good for the coin. Anyone that thinks having these sorts of things will negatively impact the coin only further proves that the community and market as is, is too small and impressionable.

[oblox]

There is no need to go into this deeply. The matter is yet simple and complicated at the same time.
Here is an example: if Bitcoin was to be renamed this second to xxxcoin, it would be way to damaging for the coin and it would eventually die instead of progress.
You have your answer. Darkcoin was pretty well known over the course of the year.

You're seriously trying to compare changing the name of something that has been established since 2008-2009 to something that is almost a year old. Further, Bitcoin having far more exposure, invested infrastructure and branding behind it? Please tell me this is not the basis of your argument... that's just silly. It would be far easier and productive trying to change the name now in Darkcoin than trying to change it years down the road.

No I'm not trying, I've compared them.
Go ahead change the name and see what happens.

Might as well compare apples to oranges then. No one is saying a name change will happen, but it's worth discussing as adults vs just blindly following the herd.

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

voted for keeping the name darkcoin and seriously hope this will put an end to this discussion once and for all
as this is dragging on way too long.

Reason why i voted for keeping the name is simple, its well-known by now with its current name Darkcoin and
i dont see any problem using this name for now and for in the future. Also it fits with the already developed
technologies like Dark Gravity Wave and Darksend.

The name Darkcoin is already a powerfull branding name on itself, lets not try to fix what dont need fixing.



 

How many people have you talked to in person that found the same appeal in the name as you? How many merchants have your brought on to accept Darkcoin as is? You preach that it's well known, but you're losing focus on how large a market there is out there. Just because it has recognition in crypto realms doesn't mean it has any recognition for mass adoption. Simply put, I'd wager there will be significant hurdles in finding venture capital willing to invest in the coin as is. I'd wager trying to sell the technology and brand as is to Joe Smith down the street is going to be an uphill battle, one that very well could be achievable but most definitely difficult.

I like the Darkcoin name, but Mary down the street thinks it's all about illegal activities and nefarious acts. There is nothing inherently illegal about maintaining privacy, but privacy is just one aspect of the coin now--InstantX when completed will be the other side of the coin.

All i see in here is a couple of people who are really really trying to press this matter no matter what (and its pretty much the same people on BCT, Darkcointalk and now this seperate BTC talk topic). The reason i voted in the first place is to not let my vote get lost, tbh i find the whole voting nonsense right now.
 
Furthermore putting this topic up in the altcoin section will probly end up doing more damage as it sends out an wrong signal to everyone in the altcoin community, that the Darkcoin community is deeply devided about this while we are most certainly not. Great marketing strategy guys.. well done.
We should have kept this internal, on our own forums.

   
       

It doesn't matter where we have this discussion, it is the internet, anyone can find it no matter where it is held. I welcome the opinions of outsiders, who have a totally different perspective from us.

I hope that any future branding talk will be kept here, and off the main thread.

This has gone on for too long. My stance is pro-name change, but I respect the valued opinions of my fellow Darkcoiners, and will support whatever decision is made.

Discussion, and the ideas that come from them, don't need to be hidden.

[Lauda]

No I'm not trying, I've compared them.
Go ahead change the name and see what happens.

Might as well compare apples to oranges then. No one is saying a name change will happen, but it's worth discussing as adults vs just blindly following the herd.

Why wouldn't one compare apples with oranges? Unless oranges are a vegetable for you. 
Wasting time discussing a possible, yet useless name change isn't helping. Either learn how to code or contribute via some other way. That would benefit the coin more than changing its name.