Speculation will kill Bitcoin. Distribution of ownership will save us all.

[Creation]

I'm talking about the problem of distribution of wealth, namely the rules by which wealth can be acquired, used and disposed of. Let see what you guys think.

[bitpop]

This is the distribution phase.

[Plutonium]

The problem with bitcoin is that wealth isn't distributed between a wide enogh amount of people...MtGox displayed that one major power can really make an impact on Bitcoin via the limited supply & small minority of shared wealth.

[1Referee]

Distribution of wealth has never been fair, so the same thing will happen with Bitcoin as well.

Which shouldn't be a surprise for most people.

Bitcoin is no exception here, it's something you have to deal with.

[Amph]

This is the distribution phase.

yes and no i think, because the one dump are the one who buy again(probably whales)

[Gianluca95]

I think that speculation is a good thing for bitcoin but the worse thing is the early miner that in the past years has accumulated an HUGE quantity of bitcoin. If price dropping, there is possibility to redistribute coin at the other user

[youngmike]

Back to banking 

[odolvlobo]

This is a tired topic.

If you distributed the 21 million bitcoins equally to every person on the planet, each person would get about 0.003 BTC (about $1) and it would have no detectable effect on the distribution of wealth in the world.

[Febo]

I'm talking about the problem of distribution of wealth, namely the rules by which wealth can be acquired, used and disposed of. Let see what you guys think.

I agree with you . You can distribute some of your wealth to me.

[Ektra]

This is a tired topic.

If you distributed the 21 million bitcoins equally to every person on the planet, each person would get about 0.003 BTC (about $1) and it would have no detectable effect on the distribution of wealth in the world.

Indeed. And then, if those free coins started circulating and gaining value as the popularity of the network increased, you'd find that by the time the coins were worth something, the poor would already have spent their initial share buying stuff from the rich, who would have ended up with lots. Therefore wealth would probably be distributed roughly the same as before (but now further away from the banking industry, naturally).

[Creation]

Let me be more clear as to what I meant by 'Speculation will kill Bitcoin'.
We all know that there are large amounts of BTC just sitting in wallets. Those who have surplus BTC save/hoard them hoping that at some unknown point in time the value of those coins will increase.
This will have a long term negative impact because those coins will never be used to take part in the economy until someone decides to use those coins or simply cash out(that's another issue for another thread).
The reason why this works for the current system (fiat currencies) is because they have a tool regulate economic growth and monetary supply which acts as an incentive. This tool is called INTEREST RATES and it is the backbone of the current system in many ways.

Now the reason why I mention this is because we are forgetting something important here. Bitcoin ALREADY HAS a tool for economic growth and monetery supply we don't need INTEREST RATES or SPECULATION because they are obsolete tools used by a soon to be obsolete system. We have Bitcoin.

[Q7]

I'm talking about the problem of distribution of wealth, namely the rules by which wealth can be acquired, used and disposed of. Let see what you guys think.

Distribution of wealth does seem to be a problem right now. Whatever new btc from mining will have most of them ended up in the free market because miners will need to sell a portion to cover their overhead cost. Furthermore, with current difficulty that keeps on increasing, it's hard for a single node to grab all the btc, thus wealth distribution by right at this stage is not a major issue .

however, what became a problem was during the early day when even a conventional cpu is enough for mining. Today early adopters still hold on to substantial amount and to be fair, their decision can easily change the course of the market price movement.

[gjgjg]

Let me be more clear as to what I meant by 'Speculation will kill Bitcoin'.
We all know that there are large amounts of BTC just sitting in wallets. Those who have surplus BTC save/hoard them hoping that at some unknown point in time the value of those coins will increase.
This will have a long term negative impact because those coins will never be used to take part in the economy until someone decides to use those coins or simply cash out(that's another issue for another thread).
The reason why this works for the current system (fiat currencies) is because they have a tool regulate economic growth and monetary supply which acts as an incentive. This tool is called INTEREST RATES and it is the backbone of the current system in many ways.

Now the reason why I mention this is because we are forgetting something important here. Bitcoin ALREADY HAS a tool for economic growth and monetary supply we don't need INTEREST RATES or SPECULATION because they are obsolete tools used by a soon to be obsolete system. We have Bitcoin.

Made me think... (prob talked about somewhere else)  there will be many 'coins' that will not be spent or used because theyre essentially inaccessible or lost (people died, lost access to account PWs, dead HDD with BTC on them etc).
I wonder how BTC economy will deal with that in the future, when the amount of coins are getting sparse and a large % of them are inaccessible - will we have some kind of write-off or redistribution of those coins somehow. I wonder...



In terms of wealth distribution. imho even if you did distribute everything equally, its likely to eventually lead to the same uneven state we have now anyway, just due to human nature (without somekind of massively heavy taxation of 'the 1%' or a move to alter society structure to some degree).
shit always rolls down hill.

[Q7]

In reality, there is no such thing as perfect distribution model. Same goes in the fiat world. There are bound to be rich and poor people. I know you must be expressing your concern on those who got in early but early bitcoin adopters get the most share and the justification is similar like being the first to invest in IPO. People like you are me who got in later might not accumulate that much but at least we still consider ourselves lucky to get in early and we are able to purchase btc at current price (if you imagine that it might worth 10 times or more in the future).

[scarsbergholden]

I'm talking about the problem of distribution of wealth, namely the rules by which wealth can be acquired, used and disposed of. Let see what you guys think.

Distribution of wealth does seem to be a problem right now. Whatever new btc from mining will have most of them ended up in the free market because miners will need to sell a portion to cover their overhead cost. Furthermore, with current difficulty that keeps on increasing, it's hard for a single node to grab all the btc, thus wealth distribution by right at this stage is not a major issue .

however, what became a problem was during the early day when even a conventional cpu is enough for mining. Today early adopters still hold on to substantial amount and to be fair, their decision can easily change the course of the market price movement.

Well we still have the mining proceeds from the early miners that are held by very few people. It is the early adopters that sill hold a large percentage of bitcoin that has been mined to date.

I do agree that the majority of the newly mined bitcoin will be traded and sold in the open market in order to pay for expanses which will further distribute the distrubation of bitcoin

[panju1]

Let me be more clear as to what I meant by 'Speculation will kill Bitcoin'.
We all know that there are large amounts of BTC just sitting in wallets. Those who have surplus BTC save/hoard them hoping that at some unknown point in time the value of those coins will increase.
This will have a long term negative impact because those coins will never be used to take part in the economy until someone decides to use those coins or simply cash out(that's another issue for another thread).
The reason why this works for the current system (fiat currencies) is because they have a tool regulate economic growth and monetary supply which acts as an incentive. This tool is called INTEREST RATES and it is the backbone of the current system in many ways.

Now the reason why I mention this is because we are forgetting something important here. Bitcoin ALREADY HAS a tool for economic growth and monetery supply we don't need INTEREST RATES or SPECULATION because they are obsolete tools used by a soon to be obsolete system. We have Bitcoin.

When the velocity of Bitcoin (How fast bitcoins are changing hands) increases substantially, the effect of hoarders will not be felt at all. The existing bitcoins will be used so frequently that the price of bitcoin will be stable. At that point, hoarders gain nothing by holding on to their bitcoins.

[Creation]

So in the mean time we just sit and wait? We need more community initiatives that get money moving. I'd rather we started this now instead of some big corp. doing it for us.

[scarsbergholden]

Let me be more clear as to what I meant by 'Speculation will kill Bitcoin'.
We all know that there are large amounts of BTC just sitting in wallets. Those who have surplus BTC save/hoard them hoping that at some unknown point in time the value of those coins will increase.
This will have a long term negative impact because those coins will never be used to take part in the economy until someone decides to use those coins or simply cash out(that's another issue for another thread).
The reason why this works for the current system (fiat currencies) is because they have a tool regulate economic growth and monetary supply which acts as an incentive. This tool is called INTEREST RATES and it is the backbone of the current system in many ways.

Now the reason why I mention this is because we are forgetting something important here. Bitcoin ALREADY HAS a tool for economic growth and monetery supply we don't need INTEREST RATES or SPECULATION because they are obsolete tools used by a soon to be obsolete system. We have Bitcoin.

When the velocity of Bitcoin (How fast bitcoins are changing hands) increases substantially, the effect of hoarders will not be felt at all. The existing bitcoins will be used so frequently that the price of bitcoin will be stable. At that point, hoarders gain nothing by holding on to their bitcoins.

In order for the price of bitcoin to remain stable the actual trading volume (on exchanges) need to be high and the market depth (needs to be high).

To clarify your statement, bitcoin needs to actually be traded for either fiat or other things of value (most likely goods/services) in order to have a high velocity. You cannot simply send bitcoin to another address/wallet that you control and call it "trade". The fact that many transactions are sending money to yourself (at least partially), the best way to measure trade is via exchange volume

[Possum577]

Finding ways for the poor to access and use Bitcoin to increase their own wealth is a better way to get Bitcoin to thrive and empower the poor. Wealth distribution isn't the solution, the money will always end up back with those that provide the goods and services.

[cbeast]

The problem with bitcoin is that wealth isn't distributed between a wide enogh amount of people...MtGox displayed that one major power can really make an impact on Bitcoin via the limited supply & small minority of shared wealth.

MtGox proved that most people are really stupid about handling their money. Hopefully the lesson was learned.

This is the distribution phase.

Bitcoin will always be distributed fairly because it goes directly where it is needed, not trickled down to where it is needed.