Merry Christmas... but the last block was ~40 minutes ago.

[Bit_Happy]

From my very first post on this forum (in 2011) I have been a huge supporter of Bitcoin.

About the only time that people get really mad at me, is when I point out that sometimes transactions take wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy toooooooooooooo longgggggggggggggggggggg.
...sometimes transactions take way too long.

1) It does not matter what type of transaction I am "complaining" about.
2) Your anger has no affect on me, or the reality of the situation.
3a) In some cases, 40+++ minutes for a transaction is way too long, and we might as well all switch to an alt coin with much faster blocks.
3b) While I was typing we finally had a new block...

Quick Summary:
40+ minute transactions do not always work well in the real world.

[Meuh6879]

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty

no problem here :

1 block: 10.0 minutes
3 blocks: 30.1 minutes
6 blocks: 1.0 hours

[jonald_fyookball]

From my very first post on this forum (in 2011) I have been a huge supporter of Bitcoin.

About the only time that people get really mad at me, is when I point out that sometimes transactions take wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy toooooooooooooo longgggggggggggggggggggg.
...sometimes transactions take way too long.

1) It does not matter what type of transaction I am "complaining" about.
2) Your anger has no affect on me, or the reality of the situation.
3a) In some cases, 40+++ minutes for a transaction is way too long, and we might as well all switch to an alt coin with much faster blocks.
3b) While I was typing we finally had a new block...

Quick Summary:
40+ minute transactions do not always work well in the real world.

are you aware that a confirmation is not a transaction? (transaction takes about a second)

[merry0652]

I dont get the problem with the slow transaction complaints

I have an electrum wallet and once I receive btc it takes a few secs to show up, then I can send the btc to anyone right away, its usually just exchanges which take awhile to process btc to the account

[Sheldor333]

Wish you a merry Chrismas too!

[Braedo]

We average 10 minutes. If every so often we have to deal with a delayed block, So be it.

[Remember remember the 5th of November]

I can definitely see what OP means, I suppose in the future there would be more miners and thus the risk of a double spend would be lower and 0 conf would be more common.

[SaltySpitoon]

Waiting for confirmations isn't something that you necessarily need to do though. If you are buying/selling something very large, sure. Do I expect starbucks to wait for confirmations before handing you a beverage? Nope. Maybe a car dealership, and thats a big maybe. Double spending requires so many resources that it would be cheaper to just buy the car than to try and double spend. Even if you are successful, I think the net cost would probably be higher for the doublespend.

If you are buying a house with bitcoins, get some dinner or something with the buyer/seller while you wait for the confirmations.

[colinistheman]

From my very first post on this forum (in 2011) I have been a huge supporter of Bitcoin.

About the only time that people get really mad at me, is when I point out that sometimes transactions take wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy toooooooooooooo longgggggggggggggggggggg.
...sometimes transactions take way too long.

1) It does not matter what type of transaction I am "complaining" about.
2) Your anger has no affect on me, or the reality of the situation.
3a) In some cases, 40+++ minutes for a transaction is way too long, and we might as well all switch to an alt coin with much faster blocks.
3b) While I was typing we finally had a new block...

Quick Summary:
40+ minute transactions do not always work well in the real world.

I'm so tired of seeing this complaint on block times.

Here's an experiment I want you to perform and then explain to me how it is possible:

Transfer some bitcoin to your blockchain.info wallet and watch/listen for how long it takes to get there. It takes about 5 seconds until you hear the *Beep*. Now think for a second, how do they do that? If they aren't waiting for the entire 10 minute block confirmation time (or 40 minute time in your argument), then how do they know money was sent? And that is the answer to why your question is irrelevant.

Any merchant can use this method to see a transaction propagating through a majority of the nodes! This whole "10 minute" thing is given WAY too much importance because it doesn't matter for 99% of transactions. It's just something that people can focus on to complain about because they don't understand it in any more depth. You can see the transaction on the network nearly instantly.

So the problem must be with the wallet you are using if you can't see an instantaneous transaction. So, rather than complaining about 10 minutes confirmation time which frankly doesn't matter, then the solution is to get your wallet to support the same technology that blockchain.info is using to SHOW the transaction occurring in near-realtime. Not to complain about 10 minute block times.

It doesn't matter for 99% of transactions. And for the 1% where it might matter (bigger purchases), 10-30 minutes is an acceptable waiting period!

And guess what: Your credit card and debit transactions at stores are given credibility "immediately" but still take 3-5 days to actually move through the payment processors between bank accounts. 3-5 days is WAY slower than 10-30 minutes for a block confirmation if you want to compare apples to apples. The payment processor is simply fronting the money (just like blockchain.info shows the transaction instantly) while the transaction goes through. And these credit card payment processors are basing this method on the exact same theory that blockchain.info uses to instantly confirm transactions. It's the concept that small transactions likely aren't fraudulent. Who wastes there time hacking a system to steal a $5 cup of coffee?

[Jamie_Boulder]

From my very first post on this forum (in 2011) I have been a huge supporter of Bitcoin.

About the only time that people get really mad at me, is when I point out that sometimes transactions take wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy toooooooooooooo longgggggggggggggggggggg.
...sometimes transactions take way too long.

1) It does not matter what type of transaction I am "complaining" about.
2) Your anger has no affect on me, or the reality of the situation.
3a) In some cases, 40+++ minutes for a transaction is way too long, and we might as well all switch to an alt coin with much faster blocks.
3b) While I was typing we finally had a new block...

Quick Summary:
40+ minute transactions do not always work well in the real world.

I'm so tired of seeing this complaint on block times.

Here's an experiment I want you to perform and then explain to me how it is possible:

Transfer some bitcoin to your blockchain.info wallet and watch/listen for how long it takes to get there. Do it, I'm serious. That's right-- It takes about 5 seconds until you hear the *Beep*. Now think for a second, how do they do that? If they aren't waiting for the entire 10 minute block confirmation time (or 40 minute time in your argument), then how do they know money was sent? And that is the answer to why your question is irrelevant.

Any merchant can use this method to see a transaction propagating through a majority of the nodes! This whole "10 minute" thing is given WAY too much importance because it doesn't matter for 99% of transactions. It's just something that people can focus on to complain about because they don't understand it in any more depth. You can see the transaction on the network nearly instantly.

So the problem must be with the wallet you are using if you can't see an instantaneous transaction. So, rather than complaining about 10 minutes confirmation time which frankly doesn't matter, then the solution is to get your wallet to support the same technology that blockchain.info is using to SHOW the transaction occurring in near-realtime. Not to complain about 10 minute block times.

It doesn't matter for 99% of transactions. And for the 1% where it might matter (bigger purchases), 10-30 minutes is an acceptable waiting period!

And guess what: Your credit card and debit transactions at stores are given credibility "immediately" but still take 3-5 days to actually move through the payment processors between bank accounts. 3-5 days is WAY slower than 10-30 minutes for a block confirmation if you want to compare apples to apples. The payment processor is simply fronting the money (just like blockchain.info shows the transaction instantly) while the transaction goes through. And these credit card payment processors are basing this method on the exact same theory that blockchain.info uses to instantly confirm transactions. It's the concept that small transactions likely aren't fraudulent. Who wastes there time hacking a system to steal a $5 cup of coffee?

I agree with a lot of what you say however worded it in a way that made me think "that's not right"

Merry Christmas OP.

[Phat Buzz Tart]

Transfer some bitcoin to your blockchain.info wallet and watch/listen for how long it takes to get there. Do it, I'm serious. That's right-- It takes about 5 seconds until you hear the *Beep*. Now think for a second, how do they do that? If they aren't waiting for the entire 10 minute block confirmation time (or 40 minute time in your argument), then how do they know money was sent? And that is the answer to why your question is irrelevant.

Blockchain.info can always say your coins didn't make it here in case your transaction doesn't get confirmed.
A merchant can't get their products back if a transaction doesn't get confirmed.
0 confirmation transactions are for idiots who do not appreciate their money/products.
So your argument is invalid.
Who cares about blockchain.info?
Weren't they the ones that fucked up with the R values btw? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=581411.0

Any merchant can use this method to see a transaction propagating through a majority of the nodes! This whole "10 minute" thing is given WAY too much importance because it doesn't matter for 99% of transactions. It's just something that people can focus on to complain about because they don't understand it in any more depth. You can see the transaction on the network nearly instantly.

Read above.

So the problem must be with the wallet you are using if you can't see an instantaneous transaction. So, rather than complaining about 10 minutes confirmation time which frankly doesn't matter, then the solution is to get your wallet to support the same technology that blockchain.info is using to SHOW the transaction occurring in near-realtime. Not to complain about 10 minute block times.

All wallet software show the transaction instantly.
It is the confirmations that require time.
Stop being such a smart ass.

It doesn't matter for 99% of transactions. And for the 1% where it might matter (bigger purchases), 10-30 minutes is an acceptable waiting period!

Maybe the 99% of your transactions.
You shouldn't be allowed to talk for everyone.
You DO NOT KNOW how others are handling their money.
Maybe (to your surprise) people actually appreciate their money more than you (or than you think).

And guess what: Your credit card and debit transactions at stores are given credibility "immediately" but still take 3-5 days to actually move through the payment processors between bank accounts. 3-5 days is WAY slower than 10-30 minutes for a block confirmation if you want to compare apples to apples. The payment processor is simply fronting the money (just like blockchain.info shows the transaction instantly) while the transaction goes through. And these credit card payment processors are basing this method on the exact same theory that blockchain.info uses to instantly confirm transactions. It's the concept that small transactions likely aren't fraudulent. Who wastes there their time hacking a system to steal a $5 cup of coffee?

Your credit card get's charged immediately.
That means that the merchant is sure that their money is safe, they just didn't get it yet because the banks and VISA wants to exploit it a bit more before they give it to you.
Hence the 3-5 day waiting period, and it is actually a lot more until the money get's in the merchant's account (there is no arguments there).

Let me tell you what....
If I had the chance of performing 50 micro double spends a day, do you think I wouldn't do it?
I will have most of my expenses for the day (if not week) covered by that.

So let me ask you this:
If you could, would you not?


Thanks

PBT

[Soros Shorts]

I dont get the problem with the slow transaction complaints

I have an electrum wallet and once I receive btc it takes a few secs to show up, then I can send the btc to anyone right away, its usually just exchanges which take awhile to process btc to the account

I recently added money to my Charles Schwab trading account. I also just added some BTC to my Havelock Investments account. The first took 2 days to complete using ACH and the latter took about an hour. You can't even compare the two.

[LiteCoinGuy]

"Your credit card get's charged immediately.
That means that the merchant is sure that their money is safe, they just didn't get it yet because the banks and VISA wants to exploit it a bit more before they give it to you."


safe is an interesting word when you deal with credit cards (fraud, charge back) 

[colinistheman]

Transfer some bitcoin to your blockchain.info wallet and watch/listen for how long it takes to get there. Do it, I'm serious. That's right-- It takes about 5 seconds until you hear the *Beep*. Now think for a second, how do they do that? If they aren't waiting for the entire 10 minute block confirmation time (or 40 minute time in your argument), then how do they know money was sent? And that is the answer to why your question is irrelevant.

Blockchain.info can always say your coins didn't make it here in case your transaction doesn't get confirmed.
A merchant can't get their products back if a transaction doesn't get confirmed.
0 confirmation transactions are for idiots who do not appreciate their money/products.
So your argument is invalid.
Who cares about blockchain.info?
Weren't they the ones that fucked up with the R values btw? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=581411.0

Any merchant can use this method to see a transaction propagating through a majority of the nodes! This whole "10 minute" thing is given WAY too much importance because it doesn't matter for 99% of transactions. It's just something that people can focus on to complain about because they don't understand it in any more depth. You can see the transaction on the network nearly instantly.

Read above.

So the problem must be with the wallet you are using if you can't see an instantaneous transaction. So, rather than complaining about 10 minutes confirmation time which frankly doesn't matter, then the solution is to get your wallet to support the same technology that blockchain.info is using to SHOW the transaction occurring in near-realtime. Not to complain about 10 minute block times.

All wallet software show the transaction instantly.
It is the confirmations that require time.
Stop being such a smart ass.

It doesn't matter for 99% of transactions. And for the 1% where it might matter (bigger purchases), 10-30 minutes is an acceptable waiting period!

Maybe the 99% of your transactions.
You shouldn't be allowed to talk for everyone.
You DO NOT KNOW how others are handling their money.
Maybe (to your surprise) people actually appreciate their money more than you (or than you think).

And guess what: Your credit card and debit transactions at stores are given credibility "immediately" but still take 3-5 days to actually move through the payment processors between bank accounts. 3-5 days is WAY slower than 10-30 minutes for a block confirmation if you want to compare apples to apples. The payment processor is simply fronting the money (just like blockchain.info shows the transaction instantly) while the transaction goes through. And these credit card payment processors are basing this method on the exact same theory that blockchain.info uses to instantly confirm transactions. It's the concept that small transactions likely aren't fraudulent. Who wastes there their time hacking a system to steal a $5 cup of coffee?

Your credit card get's charged immediately.
That means that the merchant is sure that their money is safe, they just didn't get it yet because the banks and VISA wants to exploit it a bit more before they give it to you.
Hence the 3-5 day waiting period, and it is actually a lot more until the money get's in the merchant's account (there is no arguments there).

Let me tell you what....
If I had the chance of performing 50 micro double spends a day, do you think I wouldn't do it?
I will have most of my expenses for the day (if not week) covered by that.

So let me ask you this:
If you could, would you not?


Thanks

PBT

Thanks for sharing your opinion newbie.

[Rent_a_Ray]

Hi

(as far as I understand)
We will get two major problems in the future:

Blocktime, Blocksize.

(The Chainsize is not the problem, but the traffic)
We are on the way to 0.5 MB and it will grow.
The major question is: How can we fix it and how can we reduce the upcoming traffic.

Any ideas?

[jonald_fyookball]

Hi

(as far as I understand)
We will get two major problems in the future:

Blocktime, Blocksize.

(The Chainsize is not the problem, but the traffic)
We are on the way to 0.5 MB and it will grow.
The major question is: How can we fix it and how can we reduce the upcoming traffic.

Any ideas?

yes here

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=813324.0

[seriouscoin]

From my very first post on this forum (in 2011) I have been a huge supporter of Bitcoin.

About the only time that people get really mad at me, is when I point out that sometimes transactions take wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy toooooooooooooo longgggggggggggggggggggg.
...sometimes transactions take way too long.

1) It does not matter what type of transaction I am "complaining" about.
2) Your anger has no affect on me, or the reality of the situation.
3a) In some cases, 40+++ minutes for a transaction is way too long, and we might as well all switch to an alt coin with much faster blocks.
3b) While I was typing we finally had a new block...

Quick Summary:
40+ minute transactions do not always work well in the real world.

are you aware that a confirmation is not a transaction? (transaction takes about a second)

No he is not, even tho he was told million times. This fucker should just crawl back into his mom's filthy hole.

[Frabcesco]

Machine but also to rest on Christmas? 

and did you pay transactions fee to the miners?? if not, 40min is acceptable, the Bitcoin network is still too young after all

[stevenh512]

Yes, confirmation times can be pretty slow and it can sometimes be inconvenient, but...

Waiting for confirmations isn't something that you necessarily need to do though.

^ this

I quite frequently make transactions that spend unconfirmed outputs, I haven't used Bitcoin QT/Core in quite a while, but Electrum has no problem letting me spend them. There is some tiny risk of double spend or transaction malleability issues, but personally I've never actually run into either of those problems. Those transactions confirm for me just as fast as transactions spending only confirmed/aged outputs, 9 out of 10 times they'll end up in the same block as the transaction that funded them (makes me wonder how many mining pools are running some kind of "child pays for parent" type of patch). I can understand why exchanges and most merchants need to do it, but for personal daily use of bitcoin, waiting for confirmations is overrated and I've never had an issue with spending as soon as I see the transaction in my wallet.

Now waiting for coins to show up on an exchange is a different story, that sometimes feels almost painfully slow to me, but only because I'm used to being able to spend unconfirmed outputs.

[colinistheman]

From satoshi's own mouth on the subject of verifying fast payments:

Besides, 10 minutes is too long to verify that payment is good.  It needs to be as fast as swiping a credit card is today.

See the snack machine thread, I outline how a payment processor could verify payments well enough, actually really well (much lower fraud rate than credit cards), in something like 10 seconds or less.  If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=423.msg3819#msg3819