why all the hate for the welfare state?

[Naer]

I think its a necessary evil to instill some form of equality while controlling scarcity through taxation and maintaining the public health of the society. more equal nations have better public health and less crime.

discuss

[contagion]

:Sigh:    [1]

[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=402246;sa=showPosts

[Lethn]

In theory there isn't actually too much wrong with the welfare state, more often than not though the instead of taxing the rich like the politicians love to talk about all the time, they're actually taxing the fuck out of the middle class and making the gap between the rich and poor even larger. Even if you fixed hyperinflation and brought back precious metals as currency this problem still wouldn't be fixed because the governments don't want to tax their rich donors.

[BADecker]

Workers don't like their property - their labor that is converted into money - stolen from them. That's what the welfare state does.

The idea of helping the poor, or supporting those who are disabled, is noble. The idea of organizing a welfare state so that the organizers can steal some of the money for themselves even though they give other money to the poor, is criminal.

People are generally compassionate. They will help others who are in need. For those who are in need but haven't been reached by the compassionate, let the organizers request donations rather than creating a welfare state. Some people will always donate.

Removal of the welfare state will get the welfare recipients who don't really need welfare, up off their behinds, and out there working for a living. All the rest of us will get to keep more of what we work for. We will spend some of it on things that we want and need. More jobs will be created. Prosperity will abound.

The welfare state is destroying us.

[criptix]

Germany has the best welfare system in the world or is on par with it.

Is germany broken?

I dont think most of you have problems with welfare itself just how taxation and distribution works

[contagion]

Stick a fork in socialism (welfare States) and the global economy. The fat lady has sung, and we await the collapse into a chaotic economic abyss of megadeath and destruction. Thank you welfare State! This is a great gift to humanity. It has only happened over and over again without fail since Mesopotamia 6000 B.C., yet humans continue to do the same exact social organization (tax and redistribute) over and over expecting a different outcome. That is the definition of INSANITY.

Is germany broken?

Yes very much[1]. This will be evident in 2016 when Germany's economy collapses.

[1]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=877398.msg9707650#msg9707650 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=365141.msg9884798#msg9884798 http://suvysthoughts.blogspot.com/2014/08/europes-conundrum.html http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/05/18/german-politicians-promise-unfunded-pensions-just-to-win/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/08/22/the-european-debt-bomb-unbelievable/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/10/14/will-2015-break-germany/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/07/10/german-municipals-in-trouble/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/05/12/german-municipalities-in-crisis/

Germany has the best welfare system in the world or is on par with it.

The best welfare system does not employ coercion and allows a free market of individuals to help other individuals on their own free will. Once you need to use coercion (e.g. collective taxation), then you turn over control to corruption[1][2]. This is an IRON LAW that can't be avoided[2].

[2] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=365141.msg9939279#msg9939279

while controlling scarcity

There is no resource scarcity[3]. The only scarcity is due to the corruption that impedes the free market (and rewards misallocation of priorities and motivation with debt and welfare).

...

...

[3]	Iron was a precious metal 342 B.C.. Commodity prices inexorably trend downwards. http://unheresy.com/Information%20Is%20Alive.html#2nd_Law_of_Thermo

...

[picolo]

I think its a necessary evil to instill some form of equality while controlling scarcity through taxation and maintaining the public health of the society. more equal nations have better public health and less crime.

discuss

Taxes are helping the rich because they hurt the weak more. If you want to help someone start by not taking away most its income. Most of the taxes are wasted anyway.

[Naer]

Workers don't like their property - their labor that is converted into money - stolen from them. That's what the welfare state does.

The idea of helping the poor, or supporting those who are disabled, is noble. The idea of organizing a welfare state so that the organizers can steal some of the money for themselves even though they give other money to the poor, is criminal.

People are generally compassionate. They will help others who are in need. For those who are in need but haven't been reached by the compassionate, let the organizers request donations rather than creating a welfare state. Some people will always donate.

Removal of the welfare state will get the welfare recipients who don't really need welfare, up off their behinds, and out there working for a living. All the rest of us will get to keep more of what we work for. We will spend some of it on things that we want and need. More jobs will be created. Prosperity will abound.

The welfare state is destroying us.

you say people are compassionate? then why is 40% of the worlds wealth dominated by the 1%

[contagion]

you say people are compassionate? then why is 40% of the worlds wealth dominated by the 1%

Because of the welfare State[1][2].

Bottom-up organization devolves to centralization and corruption, when taxes need to be collectivized. There is no way to prevent the THE IRON LAW of Political Economics[1].

...

[1] In collectivized action the self interest incentives are misaligned with the global optimization.

[2] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=365141.msg9939279#msg9939279

you say people are compassionate? then why is 40% of the worlds wealth dominated by the 1%

i found other numbers ranging from 45-55%

You want to steal that because you are filled with jealousy. That is why you get always more of the same result over and over since Mesopotamia 6000 B.C..

http://www.bibleprophesy.org/goldismoney/biblemoney.html

10.  Avoid the lures of communism, which is the result of coveting and stealing.  Avoid insurance, and social security, which are plans of communism.  Trust in God's ways.  God's ways are that the family should take care of the family, and that the Church should take care of widows.  The way of criminals is the way of communism, "let us all have one purse", which means that the family does not need to take care of the family, because the state has taken over the family duty.

Proverbs 1:11   when they say, "Come on! Let's gang up and kill somebody, just for the fun of it
12   let us swallow them up alive as the grave, and whole, as those that go down to the pit;
13   we shall find much precious substance, we shall fill our houses with spoil;
14   cast in thy lot among us, let us all have one purse""
15   my son, walk not thou in the way with them; restrain thy foot from their path;
16   for their feet run to evil and make haste to shed blood.
17   Surely in vain the net is spread in the sight of any bird!
18   And they lie in wait for their own blood; they lurk privily for their own lives.
19   So are the ways of every one that is greedy for gain, which taketh away the life of the owners thereof.

[criptix]

Workers don't like their property - their labor that is converted into money - stolen from them. That's what the welfare state does.

The idea of helping the poor, or supporting those who are disabled, is noble. The idea of organizing a welfare state so that the organizers can steal some of the money for themselves even though they give other money to the poor, is criminal.

People are generally compassionate. They will help others who are in need. For those who are in need but haven't been reached by the compassionate, let the organizers request donations rather than creating a welfare state. Some people will always donate.

Removal of the welfare state will get the welfare recipients who don't really need welfare, up off their behinds, and out there working for a living. All the rest of us will get to keep more of what we work for. We will spend some of it on things that we want and need. More jobs will be created. Prosperity will abound.

The welfare state is destroying us.

you say people are compassionate? then why is 40% of the worlds wealth dominated by the 1%

i found other numbers ranging from 45-55%

a nice read too:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2014/01/23/the-85-richest-people-in-the-world-have-as-much-wealth-as-the-3-5-billion-poorest/

[picolo]

Workers don't like their property - their labor that is converted into money - stolen from them. That's what the welfare state does.

The idea of helping the poor, or supporting those who are disabled, is noble. The idea of organizing a welfare state so that the organizers can steal some of the money for themselves even though they give other money to the poor, is criminal.

People are generally compassionate. They will help others who are in need. For those who are in need but haven't been reached by the compassionate, let the organizers request donations rather than creating a welfare state. Some people will always donate.

Removal of the welfare state will get the welfare recipients who don't really need welfare, up off their behinds, and out there working for a living. All the rest of us will get to keep more of what we work for. We will spend some of it on things that we want and need. More jobs will be created. Prosperity will abound.

The welfare state is destroying us.

you say people are compassionate? then why is 40% of the worlds wealth dominated by the 1%

As the government and taxes grow bigger, the inequality grows bigger to the point where we are now where some have a lot and no risk of losing it in the current state of affair while other have not chance of making it. So big government and big taxes are increasing inequality and hurting the poor.

If people were paying less taxes, they would have more money to give away and would give away more

[Naer]

I think its a necessary evil to instill some form of equality while controlling scarcity through taxation and maintaining the public health of the society. more equal nations have better public health and less crime.

discuss

Taxes are helping the rich because they hurt the weak more. If you want to help someone start by not taking away most its income. Most of the taxes are wasted anyway.

maybe its up to the 1% to help fund a universal basic income to instill equality and maintain the integrity of the society

[Naer]

Workers don't like their property - their labor that is converted into money - stolen from them. That's what the welfare state does.

The idea of helping the poor, or supporting those who are disabled, is noble. The idea of organizing a welfare state so that the organizers can steal some of the money for themselves even though they give other money to the poor, is criminal.

People are generally compassionate. They will help others who are in need. For those who are in need but haven't been reached by the compassionate, let the organizers request donations rather than creating a welfare state. Some people will always donate.

Removal of the welfare state will get the welfare recipients who don't really need welfare, up off their behinds, and out there working for a living. All the rest of us will get to keep more of what we work for. We will spend some of it on things that we want and need. More jobs will be created. Prosperity will abound.

The welfare state is destroying us.

you say people are compassionate? then why is 40% of the worlds wealth dominated by the 1%

As the government and taxes grow bigger, the inequality grows bigger to the point where we are now where some have a lot and no risk of losing it in the current state of affair while other have not chance of making it. So big government and big taxes are increasing inequality and hurting the poor.

If people were paying less taxes, they would have more money to give away and would give away more

isn't big government an inevitable result of technological advancement?  as technology increases so does technological unemployment. i see a future when we are all government stipends. srs

[BADecker]

Workers don't like their property - their labor that is converted into money - stolen from them. That's what the welfare state does.

The idea of helping the poor, or supporting those who are disabled, is noble. The idea of organizing a welfare state so that the organizers can steal some of the money for themselves even though they give other money to the poor, is criminal.

People are generally compassionate. They will help others who are in need. For those who are in need but haven't been reached by the compassionate, let the organizers request donations rather than creating a welfare state. Some people will always donate.

Removal of the welfare state will get the welfare recipients who don't really need welfare, up off their behinds, and out there working for a living. All the rest of us will get to keep more of what we work for. We will spend some of it on things that we want and need. More jobs will be created. Prosperity will abound.

The welfare state is destroying us.

you say people are compassionate? then why is 40% of the worlds wealth dominated by the 1%

What does the greedy or lucky 1% have to do with the fact that people are generally compassionate? The world's population is estimated at 7.4 billion. One percent of that is 74 million. That's only about 22.5 % of the U.S. population. So, what do the greedy have to do with the compassionate? Here's what. The greedy who happen to have pets, or ranches, or horses, etc., often have a great deal of compassion for their animals. And they would for the world of people as well, if they thought the 99% of the world that isn't wealthy weren't a bunch of greedy b******s who love to sit on their behinds doing nothing except milk the welfare system.

[BADecker]

Workers don't like their property - their labor that is converted into money - stolen from them. That's what the welfare state does.

The idea of helping the poor, or supporting those who are disabled, is noble. The idea of organizing a welfare state so that the organizers can steal some of the money for themselves even though they give other money to the poor, is criminal.

People are generally compassionate. They will help others who are in need. For those who are in need but haven't been reached by the compassionate, let the organizers request donations rather than creating a welfare state. Some people will always donate.

Removal of the welfare state will get the welfare recipients who don't really need welfare, up off their behinds, and out there working for a living. All the rest of us will get to keep more of what we work for. We will spend some of it on things that we want and need. More jobs will be created. Prosperity will abound.

The welfare state is destroying us.

you say people are compassionate? then why is 40% of the worlds wealth dominated by the 1%

As the government and taxes grow bigger, the inequality grows bigger to the point where we are now where some have a lot and no risk of losing it in the current state of affair while other have not chance of making it. So big government and big taxes are increasing inequality and hurting the poor.

If people were paying less taxes, they would have more money to give away and would give away more

isn't big government an inevitable result of technological advancement?  as technology increases so does technological unemployment. i see a future when we are all government stipends. srs

Big government is inevitable when the people are disarmed, or when the people are ignorant of the dangers of big government.

[Naer]

Workers don't like their property - their labor that is converted into money - stolen from them. That's what the welfare state does.

The idea of helping the poor, or supporting those who are disabled, is noble. The idea of organizing a welfare state so that the organizers can steal some of the money for themselves even though they give other money to the poor, is criminal.

People are generally compassionate. They will help others who are in need. For those who are in need but haven't been reached by the compassionate, let the organizers request donations rather than creating a welfare state. Some people will always donate.

Removal of the welfare state will get the welfare recipients who don't really need welfare, up off their behinds, and out there working for a living. All the rest of us will get to keep more of what we work for. We will spend some of it on things that we want and need. More jobs will be created. Prosperity will abound.

The welfare state is destroying us.

you say people are compassionate? then why is 40% of the worlds wealth dominated by the 1%

What does the greedy or lucky 1% have to do with the fact that people are generally compassionate? The world's population is estimated at 7.4 billion. One percent of that is 74 million. That's only about 22.5 % of the U.S. population. So, what do the greedy have to do with the compassionate? Here's what. The greedy who happen to have pets, or ranches, or horses, etc., often have a great deal of compassion for their animals. And they would for the world of people as well, if they thought the 99% of the world that isn't wealthy weren't a bunch of greedy b******s who love to sit on their behinds doing nothing except milk the welfare system.

It's about equality. Welfare instills it to some extent. captalism preserves scarcity and in it's natural state is imbalance. are you making the argument that the 99% is greedy? kind of ironic

[Naer]

Workers don't like their property - their labor that is converted into money - stolen from them. That's what the welfare state does.

The idea of helping the poor, or supporting those who are disabled, is noble. The idea of organizing a welfare state so that the organizers can steal some of the money for themselves even though they give other money to the poor, is criminal.

People are generally compassionate. They will help others who are in need. For those who are in need but haven't been reached by the compassionate, let the organizers request donations rather than creating a welfare state. Some people will always donate.

Removal of the welfare state will get the welfare recipients who don't really need welfare, up off their behinds, and out there working for a living. All the rest of us will get to keep more of what we work for. We will spend some of it on things that we want and need. More jobs will be created. Prosperity will abound.

The welfare state is destroying us.

you say people are compassionate? then why is 40% of the worlds wealth dominated by the 1%

As the government and taxes grow bigger, the inequality grows bigger to the point where we are now where some have a lot and no risk of losing it in the current state of affair while other have not chance of making it. So big government and big taxes are increasing inequality and hurting the poor.

If people were paying less taxes, they would have more money to give away and would give away more

isn't big government an inevitable result of technological advancement?  as technology increases so does technological unemployment. i see a future when we are all government stipends. srs

Big government is inevitable when the people are disarmed, or when the people are ignorant of the dangers of big government.

back too welfare, technological unemployment would cause for a rise in some universal welfare state. where scarcity is evenly distributed among everyone regardless of where they are. we are not separate from nature and with great automation technology, it would make sense   that rational distribution of the wealth is essential to the integrity of the society. without a strong universal basic income we will see greater crime, our prisons and psych wards filled and more problems then is needed

[Naer]

Stick a fork in socialism (welfare States) and the global economy. The fat lady has sung, and we await the collapse into a chaotic economic abyss of megadeath and destruction. Thank you welfare State! This is a great gift to humanity. It has only happened over and over again without fail since Mesopotamia 6000 B.C., yet humans continue to do the same exact social organization (tax and redistribute) over and over expecting a different outcome. That is the definition of INSANITY.

...
[/quote]

You are referring to history as if times haven't changed. If pure capitalism was in order back then, things might have turned out worse. The times have changed and we have movements such as the zeitgeist movement that recognizes that technological unemployment and technological improvements has instilled leeway for such balance of income disparities such as some sort of automated income generation to fill in the gaps and provide greater balance to our ecosystem

[cryptogeeknext]

If you as an individual were a state, wouldn't you like to be well and fair?
I will tell you something, your body is a state - a pinnacle of collaboration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELEwjVRxxGE

[BADecker]

Workers don't like their property - their labor that is converted into money - stolen from them. That's what the welfare state does.

The idea of helping the poor, or supporting those who are disabled, is noble. The idea of organizing a welfare state so that the organizers can steal some of the money for themselves even though they give other money to the poor, is criminal.

People are generally compassionate. They will help others who are in need. For those who are in need but haven't been reached by the compassionate, let the organizers request donations rather than creating a welfare state. Some people will always donate.

Removal of the welfare state will get the welfare recipients who don't really need welfare, up off their behinds, and out there working for a living. All the rest of us will get to keep more of what we work for. We will spend some of it on things that we want and need. More jobs will be created. Prosperity will abound.

The welfare state is destroying us.

you say people are compassionate? then why is 40% of the worlds wealth dominated by the 1%

What does the greedy or lucky 1% have to do with the fact that people are generally compassionate? The world's population is estimated at 7.4 billion. One percent of that is 74 million. That's only about 22.5 % of the U.S. population. So, what do the greedy have to do with the compassionate? Here's what. The greedy who happen to have pets, or ranches, or horses, etc., often have a great deal of compassion for their animals. And they would for the world of people as well, if they thought the 99% of the world that isn't wealthy weren't a bunch of greedy b******s who love to sit on their behinds doing nothing except milk the welfare system.

It's about equality. Welfare instills it to some extent. captalism preserves scarcity and in it's natural state is imbalance. are you making the argument that the 99% is greedy? kind of ironic

There isn't any equality. Even identical twins are not equal. Everyone is at least a little different from everyone else. Now think about this that I am going to say. Here it is. "Since everyone is different than everyone else, we are all equal in the sense that we are all different from everyone else." We are all the same in the fact that we are all people. We are all different in almost everything else.

Why should someone get results of the labor of someone else when that labor is taken by force? That's what the welfare state does. And while they are doing it, they, the welfare state people, help themselves to an extra share of the property that they claim to be doling out, even though they don't deserve it.

People don't need the welfare state. They don't need government at all. After all, government and welfare state are made up of people. Most of the time those people simply skim off the top. Since the people are still people without the welfare state or any other government, they can live even better without government and the welfare state leaching off them.