why all the hate for the welfare state?

[username18333]

The “welfare” of “the welfare state” conceals statism's detriments without genuinely mitigating them (i.e., abolishing the state, money, and private property).

[contagion]

the tax list contaigon posted was bullshit, average taxation of 47,5% in germany?  

by chance im living in germany for a long long time now and the max income tax is 45% tax if you earn 250,000+ € per year my friend.
its definitely not the average taxation of a worker in germany.

Socialist pigs can't read.

Are those income tax rates, excluding licensing fees, sales, VAT, inheritance, social security, health care, and property taxes? In most countries you'd need to add many percentage points for the rest of those. Obamacare for example will add the 2.5% Cadillac tax.

Yes its: income tax +VAT +social security + govt health care + other misc taxes that affect the average person.

Excluding: corporate tax, car tax, property tax,inheritance tax, and other misc taxes that could be avoided if you are not in that group.

Those listed above are only those taxes, that are paid by every single worker, no matter what, basically its the forced racket tax basket.

Socialist pigs love Josef Mengele.

This story makes me feel so lucky to have the life I have in spite of my battle with neuropathy, HPV, blinded in one eye, financial troubles, career troubles, etc..

you should seek help in form of a medical and psychological treatment

P.S. I was AnonyMint, I am not a newbie.

[criptix]

this is his source :

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/country-list/personal-income-tax-rate


he just took the the maximum possible income tax rate.



@anonymint

i though you atleast would check the source...

also i agree with your other statement that there of course exist more then the income tax.
but the most important are vat and healthcare/social taxation.

vat in germany is either 7 or 19% depending on what you buy.
in germany there exist social taxation which includes everything like healthcare and so on which equals to around 15%, but you only pay 50% of it. (one part the employee, the other part the employer)

its still alot from the 47,5%....


/edit

that i said you should seek help was not meant as a offense.
from what you said i dont think you are healthy...

[username18333]

Forced compliance, of any sort, with any hierarchical social group constitutes tyranny.

[contagion]

I don't need to verify BitcoinFreak12's source because I know for a fact that actual taxation rates for the middle class in Western nations exceed 50%, especially in Europe.

the tax list contaigon quoted was bullshit, average taxation of 47,5% in germany?  

by chance im living in germany for a long long time now and the max income tax is 45% tax if you earn 250,000+ € per year my friend.
its definitely not the average taxation of a worker in germany.

Looks like the middle class pay 42% just in income taxes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Germany#Income_tax_rate_in_2010

Social security adds another 20% plus the employer pays 20% (which is the same as the worker is paying because it is taken from cost of employees and thus salaries are lower by 20%):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Germany#Social_Security_Contributions

So that is 82% tax.

Then you can add the 19% VAT:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Germany#Tax_rate

STOP YOUR BULLSHIT. SOCIALIST PIGS!

Btw, Germany will totally collapse into a heaping pile of rubble in 2015 - 2016. I am going to be laughing at you socialist pigs.

You are the one with the deranged mind.

[criptix]

the tax list contaigon quoted was bullshit, average taxation of 47,5% in germany?  

by chance im living in germany for a long long time now and the max income tax is 45% tax if you earn 250,000+ € per year my friend.
its definitely not the average taxation of a worker in germany.

Looks like the middle class pay 42% just in income taxes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Germany#Income_tax_rate_in_2010

Social security adds another 20% plus the employer pays 20% (which is the same as the worker is paying because it is taken from cost of employees and thus salaries are lower by 20%):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Germany#Social_Security_Contributions

So that is 82% tax.

Then you can add the 19% VAT:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Germany#Tax_rate

STOP YOUR BULLSHIT. SOCIALIST PIGS!

Btw, Germany will totally collapse in heaping pile in 2015 - 2016. I am going to be laughing at you socialist pigs.

this is from 2007:

http://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/1768/umfrage/durchschnittlicher-einkommensteuersatz-pro-steuerpflichtigem-nach-bundeslaendern/

the average income tax was less then 20%.

what your posted from wikipedia is indeed correct, but it just explains the tax bracket of our income tax law.


@social taxation

its only 20% if you take your pension insurance into it. you are free to to care yourself about a future pension.
it is just law because we in germany dont want to care of people that dont do something for their pension before they get old and cant work.
that is why either you have to pay in a state controlled pension fund as a tax or pay into a private owned pension fund.

@vat

i explained earlier there are two tax brackets for vat, one is 7% and the other is 19%.
guess what 19% are? right, luxury articles.


-----------------

why are you mad anonymint?
82%... come on.... and that without vat...

and where did i tell you that you have a derangend mind?

and btw. im not socialist, im pretty liberal.

[contagion]

this is from 2013:

http://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/1768/umfrage/durchschnittlicher-einkommensteuersatz-pro-steuerpflichtigem-nach-bundeslaendern/

the average income tax was less then 20%.

Average taxation is a meaningless concept because it includes the welfare recipients who leech on the economy. I analyzed the middleclass who produce the GDP. Germany is strangling them with high taxes that average > 50% in total.

Additionally the Euro was a subsidy to German exports at the expense of the rest of Europe, which is thus now bankrupted. But German banks are radically leveraged to the rest of Europe.

Germany (and Europe and Japan) will collapse this year. QE won't work again, because globally the marginal-utility-of-debt has gone negative. BOHICA. Enjoy.

Btw, I have one German grandparent, one UK, and one French. The 4th one is native American.

its only 20% if you take your pension insurane into it. you are free to to care yourself about a future pension.
it is just law because we in germany dont want to care of people that dont do something for their pension before they get old and cant work.
that is why either you have to pay in a state controlled pension fund as a tax or pay into a private owned pension fund.

So the 20% is mandatory one way or the other? And make that 40% because apparently the employer pays a matching share (which comes out of salaries whether you like to admit it or not, because profit is a zero-sum game).

The western governments will end up confiscating (nationalizing) all the private pension funds, because the societies are bankrupt.

Westerners will lose their pensions. Massive rationing of health care.

The grand liberal, socialism experiment is massive, FUBAR Tragedy of the Commons failure. Megadeath likely coming 2019ish.

[criptix]

this is from 2013:

http://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/1768/umfrage/durchschnittlicher-einkommensteuersatz-pro-steuerpflichtigem-nach-bundeslaendern/

the average income tax was less then 20%.

Average taxation is a meaningless concept because it includes the welfare recipients who leech on the economy. I analyzed the middleclass who produce the GDP. Germany is strangling them with high taxes that average > 50% in total.

Additionally the Euro was a subsidy to German exports at the expense of the rest of Europe, which is thus now bankrupted. But German banks are radically leveraged to the rest of Europe.

Germany (and Europe and Japan) will collapse this year. QE won't work again, because globally the marginal-utility-of-debt has gone negative. BOHICA. Enjoy.

Btw, I have one German grandparent, one UK, and one French. The 4th one is native American.

its only 20% if you take your pension insurane into it. you are free to to care yourself about a future pension.
it is just law because we in germany dont want to care of people that dont do something for their pension before they get old and cant work.
that is why either you have to pay in a state controlled pension fund as a tax or pay into a private owned pension fund.

So the 20% is mandatory one way or the other? And make that 40% because apparently the employer pays a matching share (which comes out of salaries whether you like to admit it or not, because profit is a zero-sum game).

The western governments will end up confiscating (nationalizing) all the private pension funds, because the societies are bankrupt.

Westerners will lose their pensions. Massive rationing of health care.

The grand liberal, socialism experiment is massive, FUBAR Tragedy of the Commons failure. Megadeath likely coming 2019ish.

@average income tax

i understand your point, i will try to look for more precise numbers.

@pension insurance.

its 20% together, so 10% the employee, 10% the employer (social tax is always half/half)
but you are correct that it is mandatory (nobody can say no to pension insurance, except you have no income of course)


@welfare state

imho it is just about the balancing.
there is only one solution for the people that can't live for themself in our society (because of physical or mental illness).
welfare or euthanasia.

if there is another solution please help me understand.

[username18333]

. . .

@welfare state

imho it is just about the balancing.
there is only one solution for the people that can't live for themself in our society (because of physical or mental illness).
welfare or euthanasia.

if there is another solution please help me understand.

If the state, money, and private property were abolished, the obstructions they pose to the acquisition of life-sustaining goods would be abolished as well.

[criptix]

ha, that one was good. but i doubt we will see that in the short to mid term.
or rather it is a very futuristic idea.

[contagion]

@pension insurance.

its 20% together, so 10% the employee, 10% the employer (social tax is always half/half)
but you are correct that it is mandatory (nobody can say no to pension insurance, except you have no income of course)

40% for all Social Security as I linked to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Germany#Social_Security_Contributions

@welfare state

imho it is just about the balancing.
there is only one solution for the people that can't live for themself in our society (because of physical or mental illness).
welfare or euthanasia.

if there is another solution please help me understand.

The optimum solution is smaller community governments that do local welfare, as I explained with a photo here:

http://www.featurepics.com/FI/Thumb300/20100525/Little-White-Church-Hill-1550025.jpg

My simple dream; what is all my babble really about? I envision local, townhall direct hands on government (where you know every body within your Dunbar number limit) will be the surviving and thriving form of limited government that I envision will be enabled and sustained by the paradigm I promoted in my prior 3 posts. This will be the like the warm feeling of the little white Baptist church on the hill in Alabama where I sang songs of contentment and faith with my extended relatives who were farmers. I visualize closer communities and stronger interpersonal relationships. I view happier and more socially engaged families. I visualize we can return to communities while still interacting internationally via the internet for maximum division-of-labor and human prosperity. I can dream can't I?

[username18333]

ha, that one was good. but i doubt we will see that in the short to mid term.
or rather it is a very futuristic idea.

Even the longest journeys (taken on foot) begin with a single step.

[contagion]

If the state, money, and private property were abolished, the obstructions they pose to the acquisition of life-sustaining goods would be abolished as well.

Idiot without a fungible currency there is no trade and no maximum-division-of-labor, thus economic collapse same as with communism.

You are going on my ignore list.

[username18333]

If the state, money, and private property were abolished, the obstructions they pose to the acquisition of life-sustaining goods would be abolished as well.

Idiot without a fungible currency there is no trade and no maximum-division-of-labor, thus economic collapse same as with communism.

You are going on my ignore list.

Following the abolition of the state, money, and private property, one does not need to be “granted” access to goods in order to utilize them—one may merely proceed to do so.

[DooMAD]

P.S. I was AnonyMint, I am not a newbie.

Ah, that explains the instant disliking I took to you.  How many alts do you have?  I'm guessing you need a new one every time people get sick of your incessant batshit mental posting and stick you on their ignore list.

*Disclaimer* This is an AnonyMint / TheFascistMind / UnunoctiumTesticles / contagion thread likely to contain unrealistic and purely hypothetical scenarios that may be closer to fiction than any semblance of reality, along with false logic and copious amounts of clutching at straws.

I know he didn't actually start the thread, but it just feels that way since his monstrous ego takes over everything.