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Author Topic: Can I avoid the 0.0005BTC fee?  (Read 6944 times)
DannyHamilton
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June 28, 2012, 04:52:36 PM
 #1

I have a Bitcoin-qt wallet running in OSX Lion with only 1 address in it: 1Jaa7hidZ2PnmXhwfTyE3pKdjKT6WkQz4

This wallet/address received 1.0301101 BTC a bit more than 15 hours ago.

http://blockchain.info/address/1Jaa7hidZ2PnmXhwfTyE3pKdjKT6WkQz4

If I try to send the full balance to a friend of mine, my client indicates that a 0.0005 BTC fee is required.

If I wait for the coin to age, can I avoid the fee?  If so, approximately how old does the coin need to be to avoid the fee?  Will 24 hours be old enough?  3 days?  A week?

-  Danny

The quality of posts has dropped to such a low level that all users who are participating in a paid signature campaign are added to my ignore list. If you'd like a copy of the list to improve your browsing experience, you can find it here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=973843.0 (Updated 2016-1-4)
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EnergyVampire
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June 28, 2012, 05:07:58 PM
 #2

I have a Bitcoin-qt wallet running in OSX Lion with only 1 address in it: 1Jaa7hidZ2PnmXhwfTyE3pKdjKT6WkQz4

This wallet/address received 1.0301101 BTC a bit more than 15 hours ago.

http://blockchain.info/address/1Jaa7hidZ2PnmXhwfTyE3pKdjKT6WkQz4

If I try to send the full balance to a friend of mine, my client indicates that a 0.0005 BTC fee is required.

If I wait for the coin to age, can I avoid the fee?  If so, approximately how old does the coin need to be to avoid the fee?  Will 24 hours be old enough?  3 days?  A week?

-  Danny

Hello DannyHamilton,

"A transaction can be sent without fees if both of these conditions are met:

    It is smaller than 10 (SI) kilobytes (10.000 bytes).
    All outputs are 0.01 BTC or larger. "

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_Fee

DannyHamilton
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June 28, 2012, 05:12:29 PM
 #3

Hello DannyHamilton,

"A transaction can be sent without fees if both of these conditions are met:

    It is smaller than 10 (SI) kilobytes (10.000 bytes).
    All outputs are 0.01 BTC or larger. "

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_Fee

And yet if you read my post, you'll see that both the input and the output are both significantly larger than 0.01 BTC (1.0301101 BTC to be exact) and the transaction can only have ONE input and ONE output, so there really isn't any reason for the transaction to be larger than 10,000 bytes.

Still the Bitcoin-qt client is requiring a 0.0005 BTC fee.  So my question still stands.

The quality of posts has dropped to such a low level that all users who are participating in a paid signature campaign are added to my ignore list. If you'd like a copy of the list to improve your browsing experience, you can find it here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=973843.0 (Updated 2016-1-4)
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June 28, 2012, 05:12:53 PM
 #4

Check here for a bitcoin fork that doesn't force a TX fee, but keep in mind that it may take a long time for your transactions to be included in a block without a fee.

pekv2
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June 28, 2012, 05:17:39 PM
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"A transaction can be sent without fees if both of these conditions are met:

    It is smaller than 10 (SI) kilobytes (10.000 bytes).
    All outputs are 0.01 BTC or larger. "

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_Fee

This explains a lot. I never understood the fee's, I sorta do now, while we all buy our bandwidth from our ISP's, and move blocks around with our payed for bandwidth, kinda goofy to pay a fee no matter the size or age. I only know so much though.
DannyHamilton
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June 28, 2012, 05:20:27 PM
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Check here for a bitcoin fork that doesn't force a TX fee, but keep in mind that it may take a long time for your transactions to be included in a block without a fee.
So this is a bug in the fee calculating function in the Bitcoin-qt client?  There is no way around it with this client no matter how long the BTC age?  The only way to avoid the fee is to use a different client?

The quality of posts has dropped to such a low level that all users who are participating in a paid signature campaign are added to my ignore list. If you'd like a copy of the list to improve your browsing experience, you can find it here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=973843.0 (Updated 2016-1-4)
Raoul Duke
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June 28, 2012, 05:22:45 PM
 #7

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=88497.msg975039#msg975039

Yes, the coin age counts, as per the link posted above. The wiki is not updated.

pekv2
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June 28, 2012, 05:25:33 PM
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https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=88497.msg975039#msg975039

Yes, the coin age counts, as per the link posted above. The wiki is not updated.

Ohh, ok. Protection against spam. Nice find, psy.
DannyHamilton
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June 28, 2012, 05:28:01 PM
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https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=88497.msg975039#msg975039

Yes, the coin age counts, as per the link posted above. The wiki is not updated.

That is what I was hoping.  I'll try again in 8 hours when the BTC have been at the address for more than 24 hours.

Thanks.

The quality of posts has dropped to such a low level that all users who are participating in a paid signature campaign are added to my ignore list. If you'd like a copy of the list to improve your browsing experience, you can find it here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=973843.0 (Updated 2016-1-4)
dooglus
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June 28, 2012, 07:57:21 PM
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Multiply value in BTC by age in days.

Get bigger than one and it's fee free.

So 1 bitcoin takes 1 day to be fee free.

2 bitcoins take 12 hours, etc.

EnergyVampire
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June 28, 2012, 08:03:25 PM
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dooglus' calculations shows that your transaction will be fee free at block # 186669.

Thanks dooglus, you are the man!

Edit: Changed 186668 to 186669

dooglus
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June 28, 2012, 08:04:50 PM
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dooglus' calculations shows that your transaction will be fee free at block # 186668.

Thanks dooglus, you are the man!

>>> 186529 + 144 / 1.0301101
186668.79088254742

So probably block 186669.

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June 29, 2012, 02:12:03 AM
 #13

blockchain.info lets you avoid the fee with their wallet service.
Gladamas
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June 29, 2012, 02:17:27 AM
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From https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=88283.msg972861#msg972861:

A base unit is 1 Satoshi (0.00000001 BTC).
priority = sum_for_all_inputs(input_value_in_base_units * input_age_in_blocks)/size_in_bytes
priority >= 57,600,000 is required to avoid mandatory minimum fees (0.0005 BTC per tx)

Plus, if the sum of all outputs is <0.01 then you are required to pay a transaction fee.

1GLADMZ5tL4HkS6BAWPfJLeZJCDHAd9Fr3 - LQ6Zx8v7fHVBiDX5Lmhbp6oEDB7dUFjANu
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Gladamas
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June 29, 2012, 02:18:10 AM
 #15

blockchain.info lets you avoid the fee with their wallet service.

I believe blockchain.info charges 0.01 BTC/transaction, regardless of number of inputs/input age.

1GLADMZ5tL4HkS6BAWPfJLeZJCDHAd9Fr3 - LQ6Zx8v7fHVBiDX5Lmhbp6oEDB7dUFjANu
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dooglus
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June 29, 2012, 02:29:36 AM
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I believe blockchain.info charges 0.01 BTC/transaction, regardless of number of inputs/input age.

Their FAQ says:

Quote
Are there any fees for using My Wallet?

No it a free service. You maybe asked to include a "miners fee" to help support the bitcoin network (See question below).

Why am I being asked to include a "Miners fee"?

A miners fee will encourage bitcoin miners to accept your transaction more quickly. Sometimes if you don't include a fee your transaction will never get confirmed and will be returned to you in approximately 24 hours.

The "will be returned to you" bit is news to me.  How is that even possible?  Some miner may include the transaction after 24 hours.

LoupGaroux
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June 29, 2012, 03:09:14 AM
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Or, consider the 0.0005 BTC the grease that the machine needs to work smoothly. Fees are the only way this system will stay alive in the future, and the third of a cent that it costs you for courteous, dependable and trustworthy transmission really isn't that big of a deal when all is said and done.

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wingsuit
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April 30, 2013, 09:04:31 AM
 #18

blockchain.info lets you avoid the fee with their wallet service.

I believe blockchain.info charges 0.01 BTC/transaction, regardless of number of inputs/input age.


Bringing up an old thread, but blockchain info allows sending 0 fee transactions whenever using custom send.

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