Is rig building still profitable?

[Departure]

to sum it up in a very simple to understand way....

Mining  = long term gamble...
Buying = short term gamble....

Mining you need to hope the value doesn't go down and also pay your investment off before it goes down, could take months, in this time the bitcoin system could crash or it could rise, but as we have seen the current rate was produced from a  "bubble" meaning it wont stay at these rates, which also means it will take alot longer to pay off the hardware, which also means your a more exposed to loosing due to the time frame if it goes bust..

Buying is a quick way to make money and has less risk on what you invest, but it is also exposed to the market going down, but the benifit is you can redeem your money back very quick before it goes totally down thus not loosing all of your investment.

These are the cold hard facts and thats without talking about the fact the difficulty will not drop(why should it when miners have already paid off the investment and still makes a small profit after running expenses). Leaving it to only get harder to mine which leaves you gambling on your investment longer...

For anyone just getting into it I suggest buying bitcoins as its safer and faster to make more money...

[fergalish]

For anyone just getting into it I suggest buying bitcoins as its safer and faster to make more money...

Of course, if *you* have already bought mining hardware, it would be very convenient for you to dissuade others from mining and keep the difficulty low, so *you* can pay off your hardware.

From a network point of view, higher difficulty means the bitcoin network is much more secure and resistant to attack.

[the joint]

Worth it?

Depends on electrical cost and the efficiency of your rig.  If you pay a high electrical cost, FPGAs are likely the way to go for now.  If your electrical cost is very low, GPU-rigs are still good because, relative to FPGAs, they give you more bang for your buck, at least right now.

Keep in mind, mining Bitcoins is like buying them indirectly instead of buying them directly, except that you hedge your investment in the form of your hardware.  With an efficient rig, you will pay off your hardware in less than a year and then anything after that is profit, PLUS you still have the value of the hardware itself.

All things to consider.  My advice would be to look for common trends -- a lot of very smart people are throwing down insane amounts of money on Bitcoin rigs ($100,000+ in some cases).  The new trend right now is the FPGA-based rig as well as the BFL singles and mini-rigs.

If you have the money, nothing beats a mini-rig right now.

[kjj]

$1000 invested in GPUs today will get you about 1 BTC per day.  If you get free electricity, they should pay for themselves (at current difficulty and exchange rate) around November.  FPGA devices will have longer payoff times (assuming difficulty and exchange rate cooperate), but are better if you pay for electricity.

If you love bitcoin and have some spare cash, build a rig and run it, and don't worry about profit.

If you are looking for a longshot investment, build a rig.

If you are looking for a sure profit, I wouldn't bother.

[Red Emerald]

THREAD NECROMANCY!

Still seems like these comments apply pretty well though.  Now if only we could get back to last June's prices

[discordian666]

Not if Vlad's supposed business venture gets operational in the coming months

[gnar1ta$]

Even with cheap or free electricity, GPU rigs don't seem to make as much sense as FPGA's.  Unless your buying used hardware of course, but I like warranties.  A BFL single will get around 1.38Mhash/$, the minirig around 1.65Mhash/$ and if you already have rigs running they don't require additional hardware.  Try and build a GPU rig from Amazon.com or Newegg.com with those numbers. I'd stick with FPGA's.

[Bigpiggy01]

Even with cheap or free electricity, GPU rigs don't seem to make as much sense as FPGA's.  Unless your buying used hardware of course, but I like warranties.  A BFL single will get around 1.38Mhash/$, the minirig around 1.65Mhash/$ and if you already have rigs running they don't require additional hardware.  Try and build a GPU rig from Amazon.com or Newegg.com with those numbers. I'd stick with FPGA's.

GPUs still have that well beat if you buy slightly lower end new GPUs like powercolor 6770s or something like that for around 80$ @ 200Mhash/s that gives you 2.5Mhash/$ minus power though. Undervolted but still OCed they pull around 80W.

GPUs still have fpgas beat in terms of resale value etc but long term fpgas will win a pure mining race due to the lower power costs.

Atm I'd say that if you want flexible go for GPUs but for long terms mining/other sha256 (some of the fpga boards sold atm aren't really adaptable for other purposes) go for fpga.

[rjk]

The only reason GPUs have become the de facto mining hardware is because FPGA/ASIC miners didn't exist back then. I foresee them going the way of the dinosaur, although not anytime soon of course.

[gnar1ta$]

GPUs still have that well beat if you buy slightly lower end new GPUs like powercolor 6770s or something like that for around 80$ @ 200Mhash/s that gives you 2.5Mhash/$ minus power though. Undervolted but still OCed they pull around 80W.

You still have to add in the cost of additional hardware.  MB, PSU, RAM, CPU, HD or USB, PCIe extenders, frame hardware. 

[kjj]

GPUs still have that well beat if you buy slightly lower end new GPUs like powercolor 6770s or something like that for around 80$ @ 200Mhash/s that gives you 2.5Mhash/$ minus power though. Undervolted but still OCed they pull around 80W.

You still have to add in the cost of additional hardware.  MB, PSU, RAM, CPU, HD or USB, PCIe extenders, frame hardware. 

Shouldn't be more than about $200 per rig, or $50 to $70 per video card.  Even less if you already have some or all of the stuff lying around.

[Bigpiggy01]

You still have to add in the cost of additional hardware.  MB, PSU, RAM, CPU, HD or USB, PCIe extenders, frame hardware.

Atm that is doable for roughly 35-40$ per gpu slot if averaged out using 1-7 extenders so yup there are additional costs fpgas still need supporting hardware as well though but that can be done at much lower levels.

The one thing that worries me about most to the fpga tech available though is the inflexibility of more or less all of the current boards barring the Icarus board. Atm I'd stay well clear of any of the fpga solutions due to their in-adaptability barring again the Icarus board (I'm attempting to order a few atm).

Given bitcoin's current level of adoption etc I'm far from certain that investing in 100% dedicated mining hardware (as in it can't be used for other purposes) is a sane investment.

[gnar1ta$]

Build me an order for a 6 GPU rig that beats 1.4Mhash/$ (excluding frame) and I'll send you 3BTC.  5BTC if you can beat 1.65Mhash/$. With links and items available to ship - and don't put me in rebate hell.

EDIT: paid

[DeathAndTaxes]

Build me an order for a 6 GPU rig that beats 1.4Mhash/$ (excluding frame) and I'll send you 3BTC.  5BTC if you can beat 1.65Mhash/$. With links and items available to ship - and don't put me in rebate hell.

Show me an FPGA under the same conditions.

[gnar1ta$]

Doesn't exist, never said it did. 

[Gomeler]

My last two rigs purchased are as follows.

5x 5830 @ $110
Antec TPQ-1200 @ $219
MSI 890FXA-GD70 @ $180
2x2GB DDR3 $20(split between 2 rigs)
4GB USB   $5
Sempron 145 $40
Wire rack @ Target $10


Ends up around 1.52 MH/$. I bought my board for ~$120 open-boxed at Newegg. The last bulk buy of 5830s I pulled in on eBay averaged around $110. Plan on the next order being around $100 or lower. Pulls in just over 1500 MH/s and pulls around 800w.

Edit: I should note, I know this isn't a 6 GPU rig but 6 GPU didn't make sense. Also, I forgot to include the three PCIe extenders I used at $5/pop. So, in the end it is around 1.50 MH/$.

[Bigpiggy01]

Build me an order for a 6 GPU rig that beats 1.4Mhash/$ (excluding frame) and I'll send you 3BTC.  5BTC if you can beat 1.65Mhash/$. With links and items available to ship - and don't put me in rebate hell.

1x refurbed mobo: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=14015663301 698.00 CNY   =   110.649 USD

6x extenders http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=3607685593 and http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=14360247848 15.00 CNY   =   2.37784 USD x6 = 14.27 USD

cpu sempron http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=13360385486 130.00 CNY   =   20.6083 USD

2 gb ddr3 http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=6666425787 63.00 CNY   =   9.98693 USD

1 PSU kinda shitty but usable http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=13444136885 300.00 CNY   =   47.5615 USD

6x 6770 http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=16091076299 420.00 CNY   =   66.5606 USD =  399.3636 USD

2x molex-pci-e adapters http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=1131318398 2.50 CNY   =   0.396302 USD = 0.8 USD

Total= 603.23933 USD

Hash 6x 200Mhash/s

1.98926 $/Mhash

Most 6770s will do around 210 Mhash/s I only have 2 of the ones in the link they do 204-206 which is ok when comparing with 5770s so the actual number should be closer to 2$/Mhash

Should the PSU be on the shitty side http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=15685788419 is available @ 320.00 CNY   =   50.7221 USD or http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=14101614506 328.00 CNY   =   51.9894 USD

Still leaving the overall price way nicer than 1.65Mhash/$

1EXS3q5XhbL5iUKCNCwYg6q4sgJEhmftUP

[gnar1ta$]

Still leaving the overall price way nicer than 1.65Mhash/$

And whats my cost for a translator and shipping put it at 

[tonto]

if you ALREADY had horserpower you may try use it.
but build specially for mining ..

This argument comes up every so often when talking about the profitability of mining, and it has always somewhat bothered me.

If you take two persons:
Person A) Is thinking about buying a used computer for $1000, planning to use as a dedicated mining rig.
Person B) Already owns a same kind of computer with resale value of $1000 just sitting idle, and plans to start using it as a dedicated mining rig.

Now B has an option to sell his computer for $1000 or start mining. Person A has an option to not do anything, or buy a computer for $1000 and start mining. In both cases, if you decide to start mining, you will end up initially with $1000 less money compared to when you decide to not mine, so they are economically the same decisions. Of course in a lot of cases, situations are not this simple and there are some other factors to consider, but still if I presented these two exact scenarios separately, I predict that the same people would recommend person A to not waste his money, and for person B to start mining.

Person C) Already owns a same kind of computer, games with it, won't sell it, and realizes "holy crap, you mean I can make real money letting my already kick-ass video card do some work while I'm at work or sleeping?  And then I can use these magical coins to buy an even better video card or parts for even better gaming?  And then continue (nearly) ad infinitum?"   

[the joint]

if you ALREADY had horserpower you may try use it.
but build specially for mining ..

This argument comes up every so often when talking about the profitability of mining, and it has always somewhat bothered me.

If you take two persons:
Person A) Is thinking about buying a used computer for $1000, planning to use as a dedicated mining rig.
Person B) Already owns a same kind of computer with resale value of $1000 just sitting idle, and plans to start using it as a dedicated mining rig.

Now B has an option to sell his computer for $1000 or start mining. Person A has an option to not do anything, or buy a computer for $1000 and start mining. In both cases, if you decide to start mining, you will end up initially with $1000 less money compared to when you decide to not mine, so they are economically the same decisions. Of course in a lot of cases, situations are not this simple and there are some other factors to consider, but still if I presented these two exact scenarios separately, I predict that the same people would recommend person A to not waste his money, and for person B to start mining.

Person C) Already owns a same kind of computer, games with it, won't sell it, and realizes "holy crap, you mean I can make real money letting my already kick-ass video card do some work while I'm at work or sleeping?  And then I can use these magical coins to buy an even better video card or parts for even better gaming?  And then continue (nearly) ad infinitum?"   

I actually spent $3000 on a desktop computer that I use for mining.  While it only pulls 1.35 G/Hash, I'll be able to sell this thing in 3-4 years for around $1500 easily.  It's one badass mofo machine, and all the parts are covered under warranty for 4 years.

In other words, free kick ass machine!!!  I can mine BTC and LTC with it, watch a movie, and use professional recording software to record my music all at the same time