Proof of stake mining of bicoin

[achimsmile]

POS=no production cost=no value

If I can produce a coin without any cost, why should I pay any thing valuable to exchange it??? I will just go ahead to mine it

Fiat money can have value without production cost, because there is a law to force its circulation, and the cost to make that law can be a war, which costs millions of times more energy than POW mining

You make a common mistake here.

PoS has a production cost. To invent a working PoS system, you need to do brainwork. To generate a PoS block, you need to do CPU cycles (and you need to have stake of course).

But that doesn't matter, because production cost != value

[Daedelus]

POS=no production cost=no value

If I can produce a coin without any cost, why should I pay any thing valuable to exchange it??? I will just go ahead to mine it

Fiat money can have value without production cost, because there is a law to force its circulation, and the cost to make that law can be a war, which costs millions of times more energy than POW mining

Then http://coinmarketcap.com/ gives us incorrect information... or you are just wrong.

My paintings have a price of 100 billion each. I have 500 of them. My paintings have a market cap of 50 trillion.

Bwaaahahahahaha!

Are you saying you could create a POS coin that could stay in the top 10 for a significant amount of time doing this?

You might I suppose if you kept 100% of the coin. But then you would have to show all others on CMC are doing the same. You're a sly one cbeast   borderline troll, the best lies are those very close to the truth

[Daedelus]

What features do your paintings offer that might be desirable to me? Do they offer an asset exchange? That's always a good start. 50 trillion seems a bit steep tho... I think I'll wait for the dump 

[cbeast]

What features do your paintings offer that might be desirable to me? Do they offer an asset exchange? That's always a good start. 50 trillion seems a bit steep tho... I think I'll wait for the dump 

What I'm saying is your exchanges are toys made by children like Zhoutong, and Karpeles. They are insignificant in the world of finance. What they do is set unrealistic values to technologies that await official government sanction and regulation so serious exchange can happen. Until then, there is no realistic price discovery.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Then http://coinmarketcap.com/ gives us incorrect information... or you are just wrong.

My paintings have a price of 100 billion each. I have 500 of them. My paintings have a market cap of 50 trillion.

I see that integrity is not the strongest of your qualities...

You don't know what a strawman is. Let's just end this. You win. I will ignore you also.

[Q7]

POS=no production cost=no value

If I can produce a coin without any cost, why should I pay any thing valuable to exchange it??? I will just go ahead to mine it

Fiat money can have value without production cost, because there is a law to force its circulation, and the cost to make that law can be a war, which costs millions of times more energy than POW mining

Pos concept still needs electricity to keep the computer on for a certain time period before the reward comes. There are certain systems that dictates at least minimum 2 hours so there is still some cost of production attached to here

[Daedelus]

So you are saying paintings doesn't have an asset exchange?..


I thought places to exchange shares and currencies are very important in finance... but what do I know  

You should check out the Jinn asset It is a physical ternary processor aimed at the 'Internet of Things' revolution that we are told is coming down the track with a free and paid emulator for distributed computing. It is arguably external from crypto.

It doesn't require permission from anyone to exist or progress. Each update increases its value and that of the platform it is on. Market prices can exist without regulation. And regulation doesn't prevent fear and greed volatility and unrealistic prices. I bolded it so it must be true   You can ask any technical questions you have about Jinn in this thread, the dev might pick them up  


But I this is getting away from your proposition of your paintings with nothing to offer = POS platforms that support the development of real projects  

[cbeast]

Then http://coinmarketcap.com/ gives us incorrect information... or you are just wrong.

My paintings have a price of 100 billion each. I have 500 of them. My paintings have a market cap of 50 trillion.

I see that integrity is not the strongest of your qualities...

You don't know what a strawman is. Let's just end this. You win. I will ignore you also.

Your. Trolling. Is. Just. Too. Powerful... aaaarrgghhhh!!!!

[Daedelus]

Then http://coinmarketcap.com/ gives us incorrect information... or you are just wrong.

My paintings have a price of 100 billion each. I have 500 of them. My paintings have a market cap of 50 trillion.

I see that integrity is not the strongest of your qualities...

You don't know what a strawman is. Let's just end this. You win. I will ignore you also.

Your. Trolling. Is. Just. Too. Powerful... aaaarrgghhhh!!!!

Truth hurts?


 

[cbeast]

Then http://coinmarketcap.com/ gives us incorrect information... or you are just wrong.

My paintings have a price of 100 billion each. I have 500 of them. My paintings have a market cap of 50 trillion.

I see that integrity is not the strongest of your qualities...

You don't know what a strawman is. Let's just end this. You win. I will ignore you also.

Your. Trolling. Is. Just. Too. Powerful... aaaarrgghhhh!!!!

Truth hurts?


 

What would you know of truth?

[Daedelus]

Then http://coinmarketcap.com/ gives us incorrect information... or you are just wrong.

My paintings have a price of 100 billion each. I have 500 of them. My paintings have a market cap of 50 trillion.

I see that integrity is not the strongest of your qualities...

You don't know what a strawman is. Let's just end this. You win. I will ignore you also.

Your. Trolling. Is. Just. Too. Powerful... aaaarrgghhhh!!!!

Truth hurts?


 

What would you know of truth?

Evidence suggests it is true you try to play to the crowd when your points get rebutted. Maybe you are losing your ability to tell people what to think?

[cbeast]

Then http://coinmarketcap.com/ gives us incorrect information... or you are just wrong.

My paintings have a price of 100 billion each. I have 500 of them. My paintings have a market cap of 50 trillion.

I see that integrity is not the strongest of your qualities...

You don't know what a strawman is. Let's just end this. You win. I will ignore you also.

Your. Trolling. Is. Just. Too. Powerful... aaaarrgghhhh!!!!

Truth hurts?


  

What would you know of truth?

Evidence suggests it is true you try to play to the crowd when your points get rebutted. Maybe you are losing your ability to tell people what to think?

First you claim market caps denote the value of a cryptocurrency. I refute that point by explaining that all cryptocurrencies markets without exception are unregulated and therefore unreliable. I also demonstrate that with the paintings analogy. That threw you for a loop so you ignored the analogy and started talking about the art market. That's called a red herring by the way. Then you said

But I this is getting away from your proposition of your paintings with nothing to offer = POS platforms that support the development of real projects  

which is simply hyperbole. I can appreciate that.

But then you have to go and defend your champion CFB. You consistently and completely ignore my rebuttals and instead use fallacies. Now you accuse me of social engineering.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

[Daedelus]

First you claim market caps denote the value of a cryptocurrency. I refute that point by explaining that all cryptocurrencies markets without exception are unregulated and therefore unreliable. I also demonstrate that with the paintings analogy. That threw you for a loop so you ignored the analogy and started talking about the art market. That's called a red herring by the way. Then you said

But I this is getting away from your proposition of your paintings with nothing to offer = POS platforms that support the development of real projects  

which is simply hyperbole. I can appreciate that.

But then you have to go and defend your champion CFB. You consistently and completely ignore my rebuttals and instead use fallacies. Now you accuse me of social engineering.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Comments about market cap was your starting point, not mine. My first post was that you were making a false comparison > Your paintings = POS. (I'll wait while you go back a read my post, it starts "bwaaaahahahahaha... "   )

Your paintings = POS is a strawman as the two are definitely not equivalent (unless paintings does have an asset exchange?  ) and you successfully attacked your false representation. Rather than attack the reality of POS (see the bit about Jinn and value not being depending on regulation or acceptance from authority). Far from ignoring your point, I addressed it directly. That was the starting point.


You put the paintings analogy in the middle of our conversation, not at the start. Your version of events doesn't correspond to our conversation and that makes me think you aren't interested in honest discourse, only trying to 'win'.


CfB doesn't need me or anyone else to defend him, he already does a sterling job of that himself  This thread is a good example 

But excuse me for the rest of today, I have to go comb my couch.

[sumantso]

If I can produce a coin without any cost, why should I pay any thing valuable to exchange it??? I will just go ahead to mine it

So why don't you go ahead and mine it? There are several valuable PoS coins, more valuable than PoW coins in fact if you discount Bitcoin.

You are stuck with common misunderstanding that mining increases the Bitcoin value. It goes the other way, difficulty, or rather the energy spent (difficulty also depends on the generation of hardware) increases or decrease with what the market speculates the value of the coin is. The value certainly doesn't depend upon the mining cost.

[cryptogeeknext]

Protection against 51% attacks is a concern.

51% mechanism is what allows to challenge the status quo, thus enabling competition for power.
Just sitting on your money in PoW does't give you control over the system, just engaging in the competition for control doesn't bring you money as mining is normally a break-even game. Thus money and control become orthogonal, which results in a dynamic system without asymptotes. In PoS you get both in a nice single package, which saturates fairly quickly.

Hybrid systems are more tricky beasts, thus they need to be studied closely. I'm concerned that saturation in PoS aspect of the hybrid will at some point begin to negatively influence the competition on PoW side.

51% PoW mechanism is what allows malicious agents to challenge the legitimate miners, thus overpowering them via a hashpower coup d'etat.

Do you really think that the legitimate miners in Bitcoin can prevent a government from forcing their rules on the Bitcoin network?  Mind you, the NSA had a $10.7 Billion USD budget in 2013.  The only way to prevent such actions from external actors is via PoS.

You're inserting judgement into equation.
PoW rules are neutral - run the algorithm faster and you win. Does that make you malicious?
It is like saying, countries can be attacked by other countries, thus countries are bad. Planets can be attacked by aliens - planets are wrong. Universes can collapse in a Big Crunch - universes are evil.

PoW 51% mechanism is what sets things in motion, PoS saturates towards centralization of power and stays there.

For those unaware, there have been some serious
hybrid PoW/PoS proposals for Bitcoin, which you can find here:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Proof_of_Stake

If you are interested in using PoW as a distribution mechanism and PoS as a security mechanism, NXT's monetary system offers such a solution.

PoS security mechanism is that of a private enterprise. It works well when there are other enterprises to run to. Network effects work great with money, thus global money system is better served with PoW as it can stay robust all by itself by allowing competition for both money and control within the system.

[sumantso]

My paintings have a price of 100 billion each. I have 500 of them. My paintings have a market cap of 50 trillion.

It is if the market values it so. Now I don't know you personally and you may very well be a great painter, but its more likely they will be going for dime a dozen in which case your paintings will have a market cap of $4.

[cbeast]

First you claim market caps denote the value of a cryptocurrency. I refute that point by explaining that all cryptocurrencies markets without exception are unregulated and therefore unreliable. I also demonstrate that with the paintings analogy. That threw you for a loop so you ignored the analogy and started talking about the art market. That's called a red herring by the way. Then you said

But I this is getting away from your proposition of your paintings with nothing to offer = POS platforms that support the development of real projects  

which is simply hyperbole. I can appreciate that.

But then you have to go and defend your champion CFB. You consistently and completely ignore my rebuttals and instead use fallacies. Now you accuse me of social engineering.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Comments about market cap was your starting point, not mine. My first post was that you were making a false comparison > Your paintings = POS. (I'll wait while you go back a read my post, it starts "bwaaaahahahahaha... "   )

Your paintings = POS is a strawman as the two are definitely not equivalent (unless paintings does have an asset exchange?  ) and you successfully attacked your false representation. Rather than attack the reality of POS (see the bit about Jinn and value not being depending on regulation or acceptance from authority). Far from ignoring your point, I addressed it directly. That was the starting point.


You put the paintings analogy in the middle of our conversation, not at the start. Your version of events doesn't correspond to our conversation and that makes me think you aren't interested in honest discourse, only trying to 'win'.


CfB doesn't need me or anyone else to defend him, he already does a sterling job of that himself  This thread is a good example 

But excuse me for the rest of today, I have to go comb my couch.

Mea Culpa, it was CFB that brought up the market cap, but it was you that responded to my counterpoint. I presume it was also your argument as you were defending it. But excuse me for the evening. I must attend my party guests.

[Come-from-Beyond]

PoS security mechanism is that of a private enterprise.

PoS = PoW with one level of indirection removed.

Instead of

Code:

Dollars -> Mining rig -> Cryptocoins

PoS offers

Code:

Dollars -> Cryptocoins

Comparison with a private enterprise is incorrect because you compare only few aspects ignoring the others.

I could say that Bitcoin = FED because miners print money if I followed your tactics.

[cryptogeeknext]

PoS security mechanism is that of a private enterprise.

PoS = PoW with one level of indirection removed.

Instead of

Code:

Dollars -> Mining rig -> Cryptocoins

PoS offers

Code:

Dollars -> Cryptocoins

Comparison with a private enterprise is incorrect because you compare only few aspects ignoring the others.

I could say that Bitcoin = FED because miners print money if I followed your tactics.

Dollars, hmm... never heard of them, you mean $nakes?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg

By the way, we are talking about forking "bicoin" here.
Is it some form of hidden g@y propaganda? I'm straight, so I'm out

[Come-from-Beyond]

Is it some form of hidden g@y propaganda? I'm straight, so I'm out

Have you just attempted to insult ~10% of BTT users?