Bitcoin Forum
December 18, 2017, 11:11:52 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 [4] 5 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Economic Collapse Headed for U.S. in 2015???  (Read 5913 times)
johnyj
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1834


Beyond Imagination


View Profile
March 10, 2015, 06:40:31 AM
 #61

How do you define collapse? If a collapse mean something's USD value drops, then FED only need to print a little bit more USD to support the collapsed price and everything will be back to normal

If a collapse means a collapse of USD's value e.g. everything's price will double each month, then FED just need to sell large amount of assets and reduce the available USD in banking system, thus USD will become scarce again, and stop the price inflation

The only problem is that people might give up using USD, then what FED can do with USD will have no effect on anyone who does not use USD. But that is not going to happen in 2015

What about the U.S. national debt? Japan being out of the question (since it is not an independent country), but China deciding to cash out their U.S. Treasuries pool (i.e. 21% of all foreign-held U.S. Treasury securities) and then spend all these dollars? Would this pass for a collapse?

Foreign-held US debts are small comparing with what US hold domestically, and when Chinese government spend dollars to buy US products, it will create job and boom. And those bonds have no risk of default, US government will always borrow more USD from FED to repay them with good interest

John Law said, money is wealth. As long as you can create money at will, you can create wealth to solve any economy problem. There is a limit for how much money you can print without totally destroy the credibility of fiat money, but with modern productivity, it seems unless you print 10 times more money every month, people will always adapt and create enough products to earn those newly printed money. Unreasonably stupid but you can not do anything about it, since for each individual, fiat money is precious, and they will work hard to grab those paper

Maybe in future US merchants only accept bitcoin and large foreign US debt owners could not buy anything using USD Cheesy

1513595512
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513595512

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513595512
Reply with quote  #2

1513595512
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1513595512
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513595512

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513595512
Reply with quote  #2

1513595512
Report to moderator
1513595512
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513595512

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513595512
Reply with quote  #2

1513595512
Report to moderator
tee-rex
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 448



View Profile
March 10, 2015, 06:57:22 AM
 #62

How do you define collapse? If a collapse mean something's USD value drops, then FED only need to print a little bit more USD to support the collapsed price and everything will be back to normal

If a collapse means a collapse of USD's value e.g. everything's price will double each month, then FED just need to sell large amount of assets and reduce the available USD in banking system, thus USD will become scarce again, and stop the price inflation

The only problem is that people might give up using USD, then what FED can do with USD will have no effect on anyone who does not use USD. But that is not going to happen in 2015

What about the U.S. national debt? Japan being out of the question (since it is not an independent country), but China deciding to cash out their U.S. Treasuries pool (i.e. 21% of all foreign-held U.S. Treasury securities) and then spend all these dollars? Would this pass for a collapse?

Foreign-held US debts are small comparing with what US hold domestically, and when Chinese government spend dollars to buy US products, it will create job and boom. And those bonds have no risk of default, US government will always borrow more USD from FED to repay them with good interest

I wouldn't call owning of over $6 trillion of U.S. debt, which makes roughly 47% of the public debt (34% of the total debt), small, would you? Furthermore, if the Chinese government decides to spend dollars in the U.S., this will raise inflation through a demand-supply mechanism. But the problem would be even deeper than that.


     ╔═╗ ╦ ═╦═╔══╔══╗╔══╗╔══          OFFICIAL WEBSITE | TWITTER  | FACEBOOK
==== ╠═╝╗║  ║ ║  ║  ║╠═╔╝╠══ ====    OFFICIAL F.A.Q.  | TELEGRAM | TECHCHART    
     ╚══╝╩  ╩ ╚══╚══╝╚ ╚═╚══          10 MB, segwit, BTC -> BTX, airdrops +++
Erdogan
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 840


View Profile
March 10, 2015, 02:53:01 PM
 #63

How do you define collapse? If a collapse mean something's USD value drops, then FED only need to print a little bit more USD to support the collapsed price and everything will be back to normal

If a collapse means a collapse of USD's value e.g. everything's price will double each month, then FED just need to sell large amount of assets and reduce the available USD in banking system, thus USD will become scarce again, and stop the price inflation

The only problem is that people might give up using USD, then what FED can do with USD will have no effect on anyone who does not use USD. But that is not going to happen in 2015

This is about correct, except the "just" word. Look to Greece. How is the sale of ports going? Sale of the oil refinery? What will the voters say about selling schools, hospitals, national parks, military land, the parthenon? Then fire all officials, including themselves? You see that in practice, this is not a possibility for a government that is currently in power.

Possum577
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434

Loose lips sink sigs!


View Profile WWW
March 10, 2015, 03:37:19 PM
 #64

How do you define "economic collapse"?

The were market crashes and subsequent bear markets after 1999/2000 and 2007 but these didn't collapse the economy. Business continued on, albeit recessed, but both of these declines created firesale prices for the biggest and best companies in the US, certainly not a reason to panic unless you planned to retire in 2001 or 2008 (in which case you shouldn't have been invested in stocks anyway).

Economic Collapse, to me, means a fundamental breakdown of the economy. Depression style disappearance of work and wealth. Neither of these happened in the recent 15 years. I don't think they'll happen this year either.

Possum577
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434

Loose lips sink sigs!


View Profile WWW
March 10, 2015, 04:15:20 PM
 #65

The US would have probably not fallen into recession if it were not for the 9/11/11 terrorist attacks. The economic boom did peak in 2000, however we did not fall into recession until late 2011.

I don't think there was actually any kind of crisis in 1987, just a recession caused by the economic cycle.


Really? The terrorist attack referred to as "9/11" happened on 9/11/2001, the recession started in 2008 (by 2011 the markets has started to recover). And there definitely was a market crash in 1987, it's referred to as "Black Monday", http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Monday_(1987).

thejaytiesto
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134



View Profile
March 10, 2015, 06:21:34 PM
 #66

The US would have probably not fallen into recession if it were not for the 9/11/11 terrorist attacks. The economic boom did peak in 2000, however we did not fall into recession until late 2011.

I don't think there was actually any kind of crisis in 1987, just a recession caused by the economic cycle.


Really? The terrorist attack referred to as "9/11" happened on 9/11/2001, the recession started in 2008 (by 2011 the markets has started to recover). And there definitely was a market crash in 1987, it's referred to as "Black Monday", http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Monday_(1987).
Yeah it would have happened, 9/11 or not, it's a simple math game. The debt would have keep stacking at blazzing fast speeds and Bitcoin would have naturally arisen from this problem no matter what.

BootstrapCoinDev
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 154



View Profile WWW
March 10, 2015, 08:19:15 PM
 #67

That collapse will happen the second Iran and China successfully sever the US dollar from Oil trading. The government has one main tool (interest rates) to nudge the economy. And they've used it so long its gotten to the point of uselessness. The next time anything major goes wrong, us is pretty much hosed.

Possum577
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434

Loose lips sink sigs!


View Profile WWW
March 10, 2015, 08:23:56 PM
 #68

Alex Jones certainly seems to think so:

2015: Year Of The Collapse?
http://youtu.be/AO7cM2DN1yU

But he would wouldn't he? He likes to spread a lot of fear. In fact he makes a business off of it (I think he'd like this forum  Grin). Personally I don't think it will happen this year but I think were due another eventually.

No on should be citing Alex Jones for anything. This guy makes wild claims in the absence of robust fact...he's an illusionist.

Erdogan
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 840


View Profile
March 10, 2015, 08:59:34 PM
 #69

Alex Jones certainly seems to think so:

2015: Year Of The Collapse?
http://youtu.be/AO7cM2DN1yU

But he would wouldn't he? He likes to spread a lot of fear. In fact he makes a business off of it (I think he'd like this forum  Grin). Personally I don't think it will happen this year but I think were due another eventually.

No on should be citing Alex Jones for anything. This guy makes wild claims in the absence of robust fact...he's an illusionist.

I do not approve this. The level of closedness you show is not the rational interest of anyone.

djibrilantiuang
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 98


View Profile WWW
March 11, 2015, 01:24:51 AM
 #70

opposite i think, U.S become stronger.
their hegemony already start running.  Tongue

▲▼▲▼▲▼▲▼  No.1 Bitcoin Binary Options and Double Dice  ▲▼▲▼▲▼▲▼
████████████████████████████████  sec◔nds trade  ████████████████████████████████
↑↓ Instant Bets ↑↓ Flexible 1~720 minutes Expiry time ↑↓ Highest Reward 190% ↑↓ 16 Assets [btc, forex, gold, 1% edge double dice] ↑↓
desertfox470
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 423


View Profile
March 11, 2015, 02:33:23 AM
 #71

I can see the government halving a problem with money in the next couple years. Currently the US's biggest source of revenue is borrowed money. Soon the people lending the money will be owed it back and the US will run into many issues with trying to balance out the debt.
johnyj
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1834


Beyond Imagination


View Profile
March 11, 2015, 04:07:51 AM
 #72


tee-rex
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 448



View Profile
March 11, 2015, 06:35:30 AM
 #73

I think a bar graph with bars in ascending/descending order would be by far more informative for the purpose of comparing the holders of the U.S. debt. Do you have any?

     ╔═╗ ╦ ═╦═╔══╔══╗╔══╗╔══          OFFICIAL WEBSITE | TWITTER  | FACEBOOK
==== ╠═╝╗║  ║ ║  ║  ║╠═╔╝╠══ ====    OFFICIAL F.A.Q.  | TELEGRAM | TECHCHART    
     ╚══╝╩  ╩ ╚══╚══╝╚ ╚═╚══          10 MB, segwit, BTC -> BTX, airdrops +++
Somekindabitcoin
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 518



View Profile
March 11, 2015, 06:36:35 AM
 #74

Don't forget about these low oil prices! When has it been this low? That's right! Back in 08!
BootstrapCoinDev
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 154



View Profile WWW
March 11, 2015, 09:15:02 AM
 #75


japan and uk both owe US money, but nowhere near what the US owes to them

manselr
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 840

ICO appreciator


View Profile
March 11, 2015, 07:01:35 PM
 #76

The reason stock prices are so high and everything looks good right now is purely because of hyperinflation which is the amount of money that the central banks are pumping into the economy, they're keeping things going over Christmas and new years and then eventually all of it is going to collapse in on itself with the politicians and bankers playing completely innocent about it and not understanding what's going on.

I've been predicting a crash for the first quarter of 2015 for awhile now just because of how high things all are right now and also everything is starting to look at the exact level it was at the 2008 - 2009 crash, the idea that you can have such a massive crash and then have everything go this high again as if it's 'normal' is ridiculous. The good news is for us at least, the more people who are in denial about this the more money there is to be made.
It's all a big delusional game to keep things going on as they are for as long as possible while the elites stack up on gold and (the ones that aren't dinosaurs) bitcoin and other assets, then they'll hide on their bunkers and let stuff crash.
TYPEcoin
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 154



View Profile
March 12, 2015, 10:06:43 AM
 #77

usa will get very worst,
All they want is oil,when I say all they i'm referring to a bad guvern
No wor are wins by the usa.

KimNam
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 616



View Profile
March 12, 2015, 03:46:39 PM
 #78

it's possible but i don't think it will happen in this year
we can see USD now is very strong, it pressing some other country's currency.
although US economy is not very good (they lose to china last year)
but my friend who is economic bachelor said it just starting USD bubble, waiting for collapse because feds print to much money (QE)
who knows, time will tell us Smiley

i can understand big industrial country like china and japan owe US so much money, but why belgium owe US 13.8% ?
i think belgium is not big industrial country (or rich country) ?
calme
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 392


View Profile
March 12, 2015, 03:59:14 PM
 #79

Such waffles don't come cheap. They are a waffle-based society.
r0ach
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1260


View Profile
March 12, 2015, 06:25:07 PM
 #80

The US would have probably not fallen into recession if it were not for the 9/11/11 terrorist attacks.

It's a good thing Borack Oblama was in office to deal with those 9/11/11 turror attacks!

......ATLANT......
..Real Estate Blockchain Platform..
                    ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
                    ████████████░
                  ▄██████████████░
                 ▒███████▄████████░
                ▒█████████░████████░
                ▀███████▀█████████
                  ██████████████
           ███████▐██▀████▐██▄████████░
          ▄████▄█████████▒████▌█████████░
         ███████▄█████████▀██████████████░
        █████████▌█████████▐█████▄████████░
        ▀█████████████████▐███████████████
          █████▀████████ ░███████████████
    ██████▐██████████▄████████████████████████░
  ▄████▄████████▐███████████████░▄▄▄▄░████████░
 ▄██████▄█████████▐█████▄█████████▀████▄█████████░
███████████████████▐█████▄█████████▐██████████████░
▀████████▀█████████▒██████████████▐█████▀█████████
  ████████████████ █████▀█████████████████████████
   ▀██▀██████████ ▐█████████████  ▀██▀██████████
    ▀▀█████████    ▀▀█████████    ▀▀██████████

..INVEST  ●  RENT  ●  TRADE..
 ✓Assurance     ✓Price Discovery     ✓Liquidity     ✓Low Fees





███
███
███
███
███
███





███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███

◣Whitepaper ◣ANN ThreadTelegram
◣ Facebook     ◣ Reddit          ◣ Slack


███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███





███
███
███
███
███
███








Hero/Legendary members
Pages: « 1 2 3 [4] 5 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!