Winklevoss ETF update, what does this mean?

[Mortimer452]

Keep in mind that total daily trading volume across all crypto-exchanges for all crypto-currencies, on a good day, is only around $50 million, maybe less.

That sounds like a lot, but this is so small it's barely measurable in comparison to the NASDAQ - which easily sees $50 BILLION per day.  This ETF makes Bitcoin easily available to where the BIG MONEY is.  For large institutional investors, dropping $1million or more on medium or high-risk investments is nothing - you do not see this kindof money being thrown around very often on the crypto-exchanges right now.

[QuestionAuthority]

Read this and tell me if you believe Bitcoin will be a sound ETF investment for knowledgable players.

Ways to identify a bad ETF investment

The following four tips can help investors determine whether an ETF is likely to fail:

1. Use caution when selecting ETF products that track narrow market segments; these products are considered risky and therefore require more evaluation.

2. Examine the ETF's trading volume. Volume is a good indicator of liquidity and investors' interest. If the volume is high, the product is typically more liquid.

3. Look at the assets under management, to determine how much money is being managed and to measure the fund's success.

4. Review the ETF's prospectus, to understand what type you are holding. An ETF is like any other investment company and will deliver a prospectus upon request. The prospectus will provide information such as fees and expenses, investment objectives, investment strategies, risks, performance, pricing and other information.

5. Finally, very new or very small ETFs sometimes trade inefficiently, resulting in wide spreads between their buy and sell prices or failure to track their benchmarks accurately. Wait for an ETF to gather at least $100 million in assets before you invest in it.

[bitndx]

Read this and tell me if you believe Bitcoin will be a sound ETF investment for knowledgable players.

Ways to identify a bad ETF investment

The following four tips can help investors determine whether an ETF is likely to fail:

1. Use caution when selecting ETF products that track narrow market segments; these products are considered risky and therefore require more evaluation.

2. Examine the ETF's trading volume. Volume is a good indicator of liquidity and investors' interest. If the volume is high, the product is typically more liquid.

3. Look at the assets under management, to determine how much money is being managed and to measure the fund's success.

4. Review the ETF's prospectus, to understand what type you are holding. An ETF is like any other investment company and will deliver a prospectus upon request. The prospectus will provide information such as fees and expenses, investment objectives, investment strategies, risks, performance, pricing and other information.

5. Finally, very new or very small ETFs sometimes trade inefficiently, resulting in wide spreads between their buy and sell prices or failure to track their benchmarks accurately. Wait for an ETF to gather at least $100 million in assets before you invest in it.

this could describe all of crypto-currency investment....extremely risky. The winklevie are probably(hopefully) targeting people where a mill is a very small percentage of their risk capital. otherwise it will be doomed to fail when small players can't hold it for long and have to sell into the stated inefficient market.

[Mortimer452]

Read this and tell me if you believe Bitcoin will be a sound ETF investment for knowledgable players.

Ways to identify a bad ETF investment

The following four tips can help investors determine whether an ETF is likely to fail:

1. Use caution when selecting ETF products that track narrow market segments; these products are considered risky and therefore require more evaluation.

2. Examine the ETF's trading volume. Volume is a good indicator of liquidity and investors' interest. If the volume is high, the product is typically more liquid.

3. Look at the assets under management, to determine how much money is being managed and to measure the fund's success.

4. Review the ETF's prospectus, to understand what type you are holding. An ETF is like any other investment company and will deliver a prospectus upon request. The prospectus will provide information such as fees and expenses, investment objectives, investment strategies, risks, performance, pricing and other information.

5. Finally, very new or very small ETFs sometimes trade inefficiently, resulting in wide spreads between their buy and sell prices or failure to track their benchmarks accurately. Wait for an ETF to gather at least $100 million in assets before you invest in it.

#2 and #5 are about the only ones that really matter - crypto's are always a risky investment (at least right now).  The risk/reward ratio is a factor, but trading volume is going to be what drives whether the big money gets involved.  If COIN is only moving $100k per day in volume, none of the big boys are going to bother screwing with it.

[QuestionAuthority]

Read this and tell me if you believe Bitcoin will be a sound ETF investment for knowledgable players.

Ways to identify a bad ETF investment

The following four tips can help investors determine whether an ETF is likely to fail:

1. Use caution when selecting ETF products that track narrow market segments; these products are considered risky and therefore require more evaluation.

2. Examine the ETF's trading volume. Volume is a good indicator of liquidity and investors' interest. If the volume is high, the product is typically more liquid.

3. Look at the assets under management, to determine how much money is being managed and to measure the fund's success.

4. Review the ETF's prospectus, to understand what type you are holding. An ETF is like any other investment company and will deliver a prospectus upon request. The prospectus will provide information such as fees and expenses, investment objectives, investment strategies, risks, performance, pricing and other information.

5. Finally, very new or very small ETFs sometimes trade inefficiently, resulting in wide spreads between their buy and sell prices or failure to track their benchmarks accurately. Wait for an ETF to gather at least $100 million in assets before you invest in it.

#2 and #5 are about the only ones that really matter - crypto's are always a risky investment (at least right now).  The risk/reward ratio is a factor, but trading volume is going to be what drives whether the big money gets involved.  If COIN is only moving $100k per day in volume, none of the big boys are going to bother screwing with it.

Agreed, 2 and 5 are the killers.

[jbreher]

Read this and tell me if you believe Bitcoin will be a sound ETF investment for knowledgable players.

5. Finally, very new or very small ETFs sometimes trade inefficiently, resulting in wide spreads between their buy and sell prices or failure to track their benchmarks accurately. Wait for an ETF to gather at least $100 million in assets before you invest in it.

#2 and #5 are about the only ones that really matter - crypto's are always a risky investment (at least right now).  The risk/reward ratio is a factor, but trading volume is going to be what drives whether the big money gets involved.  If COIN is only moving $100k per day in volume, none of the big boys are going to bother screwing with it.

Agreed, 2 and 5 are the killers.

Granted, I don't know too much about investments pushed by pinstriped bandits. However, my impression of the average ETF is that it contains a basket of multiple securities, no? If so, why would a single-security ETF (e.g. COIN) be affected by #5 at all? The effort required to track a single security (e.g. Bitcoin) should be trivial, and therefore very efficient, should it not?

[QuestionAuthority]

Read this and tell me if you believe Bitcoin will be a sound ETF investment for knowledgable players.

5. Finally, very new or very small ETFs sometimes trade inefficiently, resulting in wide spreads between their buy and sell prices or failure to track their benchmarks accurately. Wait for an ETF to gather at least $100 million in assets before you invest in it.

#2 and #5 are about the only ones that really matter - crypto's are always a risky investment (at least right now).  The risk/reward ratio is a factor, but trading volume is going to be what drives whether the big money gets involved.  If COIN is only moving $100k per day in volume, none of the big boys are going to bother screwing with it.

Agreed, 2 and 5 are the killers.

Granted, I don't know too much about investments pushed by pinstriped bandits. However, my impression of the average ETF is that it contains a basket of multiple securities, no? If so, why would a single-security ETF (e.g. COIN) be affected by #5 at all? The effort required to track a single security (e.g. Bitcoin) should be trivial, and therefore very efficient, should it not?

You're absolutely right and that's a good point. Classic ETFs are a bundle that together make up an investment category (like "technology") but it doesn't have to be that way. If someone can find a copy of the prospectus we can find out.

[Mortimer452]

Read this and tell me if you believe Bitcoin will be a sound ETF investment for knowledgable players.

5. Finally, very new or very small ETFs sometimes trade inefficiently, resulting in wide spreads between their buy and sell prices or failure to track their benchmarks accurately. Wait for an ETF to gather at least $100 million in assets before you invest in it.

#2 and #5 are about the only ones that really matter - crypto's are always a risky investment (at least right now).  The risk/reward ratio is a factor, but trading volume is going to be what drives whether the big money gets involved.  If COIN is only moving $100k per day in volume, none of the big boys are going to bother screwing with it.

Agreed, 2 and 5 are the killers.

Granted, I don't know too much about investments pushed by pinstriped bandits. However, my impression of the average ETF is that it contains a basket of multiple securities, no? If so, why would a single-security ETF (e.g. COIN) be affected by #5 at all? The effort required to track a single security (e.g. Bitcoin) should be trivial, and therefore very efficient, should it not?

I believe this has more to do with internal management of the fund than anything.  Basically, how efficient & fast they are at fulfilling orders and reacting to price fluctuations in whatever they are benchmarking.  When you are day trading (or bot-trading) and seconds matter, this comes into play.

[QuestionAuthority]

Well, here it is and it looks like Bitcoin all by itself.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1579346/000119312514457552/d721187ds1a.htm

"The Shares will consist of Bitcoin deposits"  This ain't no S&P 500 index ETF. They're fucked. lol

[jbreher]

Well, here it is and it looks like Bitcoin all by itself.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1579346/000119312514457552/d721187ds1a.htm

"The Shares will consist of Bitcoin deposits"  This ain't no S&P 500 index ETF. They're fucked. lol

I don't get it. Who is fucked? The investors? The Winklevii? Those who do not invest? The SEC? The pinstriped bandits? Please clue me in.

[Guido]

Well, here it is and it looks like Bitcoin all by itself.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1579346/000119312514457552/d721187ds1a.htm

"The Shares will consist of Bitcoin deposits"  This ain't no S&P 500 index ETF. They're fucked. lol

nice find
cheers for link

what is your feeling about this etf? will it be allowed? will it be a flop?

[QuestionAuthority]

Well, here it is and it looks like Bitcoin all by itself.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1579346/000119312514457552/d721187ds1a.htm

"The Shares will consist of Bitcoin deposits"  This ain't no S&P 500 index ETF. They're fucked. lol

I don't get it. Who is fucked? The investors? The Winklevii? Those who do not invest? The SEC? The pinstriped bandits? Please clue me in.

The Winkleiidouches. lol

[Mortimer452]

Well, here it is and it looks like Bitcoin all by itself.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1579346/000119312514457552/d721187ds1a.htm

"The Shares will consist of Bitcoin deposits"  This ain't no S&P 500 index ETF. They're fucked. lol

Uhm, I think that is the point - an exchange-traded fund (ETF) that is tied solely to the price of Bitcoin.  What were you expecting?

[QuestionAuthority]

Well, here it is and it looks like Bitcoin all by itself.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1579346/000119312514457552/d721187ds1a.htm

"The Shares will consist of Bitcoin deposits"  This ain't no S&P 500 index ETF. They're fucked. lol

nice find
cheers for link

what is your feeling about this etf? will it be allowed? will it be a flop?

My opinion is that, if they get it through the system and get it listed it will be an enormous flop. I wonder how much of Zuckerberg's money they have jacked off between this and their BitInstant investment. ROFL

[QuestionAuthority]

Well, here it is and it looks like Bitcoin all by itself.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1579346/000119312514457552/d721187ds1a.htm

"The Shares will consist of Bitcoin deposits"  This ain't no S&P 500 index ETF. They're fucked. lol

Uhm, I think that is the point - an exchange-traded fund (ETF) that is tied solely to the price of Bitcoin.  What were you expecting?

Read up the thread. I was responding to jbreher.

[mmortal03]

My opinion is that, if they get it through the system and get it listed it will be an enormous flop.

Care to explain why?

[QuestionAuthority]

My opinion is that, if they get it through the system and get it listed it will be an enormous flop.

Care to explain why?

Tooooooo risky. Did you read the prospectus? If I was risking client money, I think I would risk their money on Somali oil reserves before this ETF.

[Bobsurplus]

My opinion is that, if they get it through the system and get it listed it will be an enormous flop.

Care to explain why?

Tooooooo risky. Did you read the prospectus? If I was risking client money, I think I would risk their money on Somali oil reserves before this ETF.

Nahh man.. you're so wrong on so many fronts its crazy.. First Somali oil..... Really??   

Also.. why would you not want the shares backed buy actual coin? what should it be backed by?? Promises?  HAHA.. Fedreserve anyone??

The winkidouch may not be the sharpest tools in the shed but they've got their shit on lock down with it comes to this ETF. and I can assure you it will be no FLOP..

Wanna make a "small" bet with me as to if its a flop or a success upon launch?

[QuestionAuthority]

My opinion is that, if they get it through the system and get it listed it will be an enormous flop.

Care to explain why?

Tooooooo risky. Did you read the prospectus? If I was risking client money, I think I would risk their money on Somali oil reserves before this ETF.

Nahh man.. you're so wrong on so many fronts its crazy.. First Somali oil..... Really??   

Also.. why would you not want the shares backed buy actual coin? what should it be backed by?? Promises?  HAHA.. Fedreserve anyone??

The winkidouch may not be the sharpest tools in the shed but they've got their shit on lock down with it comes to this ETF. and I can assure you it will be no FLOP..

Wanna make a "small" bet with me as to if its a flop or a success upon launch?

You don't really know what an ETF is do you Bob. lol

[Mortimer452]

My opinion is that, if they get it through the system and get it listed it will be an enormous flop.

Care to explain why?

Tooooooo risky. Did you read the prospectus? If I was risking client money, I think I would risk their money on Somali oil reserves before this ETF.

Meh, no riskier than plenty of other options out there, that are already doing $millions in trades every day.  Institutions will buy what their clients want.  If they want a high risk/reward investment option, COIN is likely to be on that list.