Could fiat-pegged altcoins replace Bitcoin?

[Bizmark13]

Could coins with stable values like BitUSD and Nubits end up replacing Bitcoin and other coins? They address one of the most common criticisms of Bitcoin in that the value of a single bitcoin is too volatile and unstable and therefore unsuitable as a true currency for daily use. Yet at the same time, these fiat-pegged cryptocurrencies share many of the same benefits of Bitcoin in the sense that they can leverage the power of the blockchain to allow for trustless, near-instant, and very low-cost transactions.

Just a thought.

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[Pecunia non olet]

no they can't replace it because the Bitshare stuff is trust based so not good to sink large amounts of money into it.

-traders and speculators will not use it if it's not volatile and that's currently 80% to 90% of the money in bitcoin

- the high volatility comes from the high inflation.

Decentralised low inflation coins (with reduced volatility) which are trustless stand a chance to get a shot imo - not the bitshares-crap though.

[jertsy]

I doubt it, BitUSD only has $10195 volume today and that's probably because it's priced at $1.04 when it should only be $1.

[Jesu]

A steady coin could be of benefit as the fluctuations could or can be a problem, but what's to stop people paying more or less for these fiat-pegged coins?

[unusualfacts30]

Depends on the adoption.

[Bizmark13]

A steady coin could be of benefit as the fluctuations could or can be a problem, but what's to stop people paying more or less for these fiat-pegged coins?

Both BitUSD and Nubits use highly complex systems to keep the price roughly in line with their fiat equivalent(s). The peg usually isn't exact, but it's close enough. I don't know how it works and trying to understand it gives me a headache but I suspect there is some degree of centralization going on behind the scenes.

[tyrexs]

do you mean is end of bitcoin

[robrigo]

no they can't replace it because the Bitshare stuff is trust based so not good to sink large amounts of money into it.

-traders and speculators will not use it if it's not volatile and that's currently 80% to 90% of the money in bitcoin

- the high volatility comes from the high inflation.

Decentralised low inflation coins (with reduced volatility) which are trustless stand a chance to get a shot imo - not the bitshares-crap though.

What aspect of bitshares do you feel requires too much trust? The market pegged assets like bitUSD don't require trust to trade (no counterparty risk) like an IOU asset, just trust in the feed producers (delegates) that they aren't colluding to manipulate the feeds. Because of the difficulty in getting an active delegate position and the fact that shareholders can vote out malicious or colluding delegates if their actions are made public, I don't see this as an issue. It is also a best practice to have each delegate run by individuals / companies instead of one user in control of multiple delegates.

A steady coin could be of benefit as the fluctuations could or can be a problem, but what's to stop people paying more or less for these fiat-pegged coins?

Both BitUSD and Nubits use highly complex systems to keep the price roughly in line with their fiat equivalent(s). The peg usually isn't exact, but it's close enough. I don't know how it works and trying to understand it gives me a headache but I suspect there is some degree of centralization going on behind the scenes.

From what I understand about NuBits, they have custodian users maintaining buy and sell walls at $1 to keep a NuBit at that price. They use a variable interest rate to incentivize holders to "park" their NuBits and earn interest.

bitUSD and other market pegged assets on the other hand only require 2 voluntary traders willing to take opposite positions (long and short) on the bitshares internal market, the collateral of which is held by the blockchain itself. More reading for those that are interested how it actually works:

http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2014/12/18/What-are-BitShares-Market-Pegged-Assets/


Edit: to answer the OPs question, I think that stable assets will find a home alongside volatile assets like BTC and BTS for their utility, but we must not forget that assets tracking the value of a currency that is strong today will also fall with that currency in the future when it collapses. So stable assets have good use in the short to medium term but in the long term a fixed supply cryptocurrency will probably be ideal (after the volatility settles down) for a global and manipulation resistant currency. BM just wrote up a good post talking about that issue: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/01/How-to-create-a-stable-decentralized-crypto-currency/

[Newmine]

no they can't replace it because the Bitshare stuff is trust based so not good to sink large amounts of money into it.

-traders and speculators will not use it if it's not volatile and that's currently 80% to 90% of the money in bitcoin

- the high volatility comes from the high inflation.

Decentralised low inflation coins (with reduced volatility) which are trustless stand a chance to get a shot imo - not the bitshares-crap though.

What aspect of bitshares do you feel requires too much trust? The market pegged assets like bitUSD don't require trust to trade (no counterparty risk) like an IOU asset, just trust in the feed producers (delegates) that they aren't colluding to manipulate the feeds. Because of the difficulty in getting an active delegate position and the fact that shareholders can vote out malicious or colluding delegates if their actions are made public, I don't see this as an issue. It is also a best practice to have each delegate run by individuals / companies instead of one user in control of multiple delegates.

A steady coin could be of benefit as the fluctuations could or can be a problem, but what's to stop people paying more or less for these fiat-pegged coins?

Both BitUSD and Nubits use highly complex systems to keep the price roughly in line with their fiat equivalent(s). The peg usually isn't exact, but it's close enough. I don't know how it works and trying to understand it gives me a headache but I suspect there is some degree of centralization going on behind the scenes.

From what I understand about NuBits, they have custodian users maintaining buy and sell walls at $1 to keep a NuBit at that price. They use a variable interest rate to incentivize holders to "park" their NuBits and earn interest.

bitUSD and other market pegged assets on the other hand only require 2 voluntary traders willing to take opposite positions (long and short) on the bitshares internal market, the collateral of which is held by the blockchain itself. More reading for those that are interested how it actually works:

http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2014/12/18/What-are-BitShares-Market-Pegged-Assets/


Edit: to answer the OPs question, I think that stable assets will find a home alongside volatile assets like BTC and BTS for their utility, but we must not forget that assets tracking the value of a currency that is strong today will also fall with that currency in the future when it collapses. So stable assets have good use in the short to medium term but in the long term a fixed supply cryptocurrency will probably be ideal (after the volatility settles down) for a global and manipulation resistant currency. BM just wrote up a good post talking about that issue: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/01/How-to-create-a-stable-decentralized-crypto-currency/

With BitShares you were/are required to trust Bytemaster. With the current structure you now have to trust Bytemaster and the other Devs who have enormous amounts of shares and are now getting bigger chunks of near 130,100 shares per month each.

Between Bytemaster and I3, I suspect they hold near 10% of all the shares. I3 still has 67 million shares and I suspect Bytemaster and Stan have more than 100 million share already if not way more.

Since the network security is based on stake voting for block producers and vote participation is about 16%, it is hugely centralized around Bytemaster. This is why if you are nice to Bytemaster and PM him to vote you in as a delegate, you will all of a sudden be a delegate.

Bitshares is highly centralized right now. The crappy thing about it is that in order for it to become less centralized, Bytemaster and I3 have to divest. And with their amount of holdings, it will depress the price for long time.

[Shuai]

The crappy thing about it is that in order for it to become less centralized, Bytemaster and I3 have to divest. And with their amount of holdings, it will depress the price for long time.

They are constantly divesting because they're actually living partially off their delegate salaries.

When declaring a coin "centralized" it only really makes sense to compare it to other systems. The entire dev team of bitshares still holds a smaller proportion of BTS than satoshi holds of bitcoin. Compared to bitcoin, NXT, ripple, and pretty every other major system, bitshares has the best distribution.

[Pecunia non olet]

The crappy thing about it is that in order for it to become less centralized, Bytemaster and I3 have to divest. And with their amount of holdings, it will depress the price for long time.

They are constantly divesting because they're actually living partially off their delegate salaries.

When declaring a coin "centralized" it only really makes sense to compare it to other systems. The entire dev team of bitshares still holds a smaller proportion of BTS than satoshi holds of bitcoin. Compared to bitcoin, NXT, ripple, and pretty every other major system, bitshares has the best distribution.

choose the lesser evil?

I demand good distribution in a coin else i am not interested at all. Bitcoin sucks too because of greedy satoshi of course.


If you look for fair distributed coins you'll see: it's maybe 5 or 6 of them around - bitcoin is not one of them.

[robrigo]

...

Since the network security is based on stake voting for block producers and vote participation is about 16%, it is hugely centralized around Bytemaster. This is why if you are nice to Bytemaster and PM him to vote you in as a delegate, you will all of a sudden be a delegate.

...

That's a big accusation, got any evidence? I personally don't believe he is so quick to vote for anyone who asks because I met these guys in Vegas last October around the time that I started my low pay (i.e. non diluting) delegate and still haven't receive his vote. You think he doesn't like me?  

I have managed to become a standby delegate overtime though.

shameless plug: vote for me! http://bitsharesblocks.com/delegates/delegate?name=delegate.robrigo

This would be a good time to point out that you can vote with a variable amount of stake, so if BM decides to voluntarily reduce his own influence he could easily do so.

[Yurizhai]

I doubt it, BitUSD only has $10195 volume today and that's probably because it's priced at $1.04 when it should only be $1.

NuBits volume is 750k, 2nd in all crypto today.

A steady coin could be of benefit as the fluctuations could or can be a problem, but what's to stop people paying more or less for these fiat-pegged coins?

Both BitUSD and Nubits use highly complex systems to keep the price roughly in line with their fiat equivalent(s). The peg usually isn't exact, but it's close enough. I don't know how it works and trying to understand it gives me a headache but I suspect there is some degree of centralization going on behind the scenes.

BitUSD maybe, the NuBits system is pretty simple.

[altcoin hitler]

NuBits volume is 750k, 2nd in all crypto today.

false statement

i think Bitshares bubble can pop any day now.

[Yurizhai]

NuBits volume is 750k, 2nd in all crypto today.

false statement

i think Bitshares bubble can pop any day now.

False what now?

[altcoin hitler]

NuBits volume is 750k, 2nd in all crypto today.

false statement

i think Bitshares bubble can pop any day now.

False what now?

didn't see that ... because the whole CMC is SPAMMED with the bitshares crap. Every hobo-coin spamms CMC ... it's just a contest who can spam CMC better  

A coin that needs to take up 20 slots on Coinmarketcap with artificially created marketcaps and no backing or liquidity is not to be taken serious. I think Bitshares is a joke. They can't even ann here because they need to control the conversation. It's such an old fart.
Coins that can't ann here can't be taken serious because they obviously fear open discussion.

All bitshares did was drop you off here and that's about it...

should be time for a thread "what's wrong with Bitshares"

[Yurizhai]

didn't see that ... because the whole CMC is SPAMMED with the bitshares crap. Every hobo-coin spamms CMC ... it's just a contest who can spam CMC better  

A coin that needs to take up 20 slots on Coinmarketcap with artificially created marketcaps and no backing or liquidity is not to be taken serious. I think Bitshares is a joke. They can't even ann here because they need to control the conversation. It's such an old fart.
Coins that can't ann here can't be taken serious because they obviously fear open discussion.

All bitshares did was drop you off here and that's about it...

should be time for a thread "what's wrong with Bitshares"

My friend, what are you even talking about? You know NuBits has nothing to do with BitShares right?

[altcoin hitler]

didn't see that ... because the whole CMC is SPAMMED with the bitshares crap. Every hobo-coin spamms CMC ... it's just a contest who can spam CMC better  

A coin that needs to take up 20 slots on Coinmarketcap with artificially created marketcaps and no backing or liquidity is not to be taken serious. I think Bitshares is a joke. They can't even ann here because they need to control the conversation. It's such an old fart.
Coins that can't ann here can't be taken serious because they obviously fear open discussion.

All bitshares did was drop you off here and that's about it...

should be time for a thread "what's wrong with Bitshares"

My friend, what are you even talking about? You know NuBits has nothing to do with BitShares right?

if i would care enough maybe i would know that. Stuff dumps before i can research it in detail - so i just wait and see what doesn't dump after 6 months ... makes life easier...

if i went looking for connections between the two i am sure i would find more than one.

actually Nubits is the same as Bitshares - just different name ... maybe in details are some differences but i am not interested in overcomplicated scams pegged to fiat - because i 1) don't believe in fiat 2) don't think it can be pegged without sacrificing some other important parts.

So actually i sit back and wait for the dump ... it'll come, no worries.

[Yurizhai]

didn't see that ... because the whole CMC is SPAMMED with the bitshares crap. Every hobo-coin spamms CMC ... it's just a contest who can spam CMC better  

A coin that needs to take up 20 slots on Coinmarketcap with artificially created marketcaps and no backing or liquidity is not to be taken serious. I think Bitshares is a joke. They can't even ann here because they need to control the conversation. It's such an old fart.
Coins that can't ann here can't be taken serious because they obviously fear open discussion.

All bitshares did was drop you off here and that's about it...

should be time for a thread "what's wrong with Bitshares"

My friend, what are you even talking about? You know NuBits has nothing to do with BitShares right?

if i would care enough maybe i would know that. Stuff dumps before i can research it in detail - so i just wait and see what doesn't dump after 6 months ... makes life easier...

if i went looking for connections between the two i am sure i would find more than one.

Nope, made by completely different people. If anything they are competitors and you would be interested in the Nu network since you hate Bitshares so much or whatever. But a little research does sound like a good idea for you.

[altcoin hitler]

didn't see that ... because the whole CMC is SPAMMED with the bitshares crap. Every hobo-coin spamms CMC ... it's just a contest who can spam CMC better  

A coin that needs to take up 20 slots on Coinmarketcap with artificially created marketcaps and no backing or liquidity is not to be taken serious. I think Bitshares is a joke. They can't even ann here because they need to control the conversation. It's such an old fart.
Coins that can't ann here can't be taken serious because they obviously fear open discussion.

All bitshares did was drop you off here and that's about it...

should be time for a thread "what's wrong with Bitshares"

My friend, what are you even talking about? You know NuBits has nothing to do with BitShares right?

if i would care enough maybe i would know that. Stuff dumps before i can research it in detail - so i just wait and see what doesn't dump after 6 months ... makes life easier...

if i went looking for connections between the two i am sure i would find more than one.

Nope, made by completely different people. If anything they are competitors and you would be interested in the Nu network since you hate Bitshares so much or whatever. But a little research does sound like a good idea for you.

i'm not interested in pegged coins and also not interested in overly complicated pegged coins because pegging isn't even possible - not in free market

ok, so it's competitor. Neither of them is interesting to me... I'll buy real dollar or real euro not some experimental shitcoin. I let others betatest with their money ...

I'm interested in trustless and decentral coins aswell as a free market so your complicated toycoins are really not interesting to me.

I remember the countdown for nubits. LOL. When it was released everyone took a shit on peercoin and it has lost a lot of the good image for that. Nubits did hurt peercoin PR very bad.