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Author Topic: TyGrr Insurance Hedge your GLBSE risk.  (Read 2812 times)
El Cabron
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July 02, 2012, 12:54:36 PM
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TyGrr Insurance   Hedge your GLBSE risk.

TyGrr Insurance is an operation that I have thought about for a long time but never developed.  It is hard to judge risk and keeping around a pile of coins to pay out was not what I wanted to do so I never got involved. However now I have the perfect thing to cover. GLBSE

What I will offer is GLBSE insurance. If GLBSE goes down for whatever reason, hacked and files deleted, nefario runs off, Feds take it over and shut it down I will pay out.

This should be used as a hedge for your investments on GLBSE. For example if you have 1,000 coins on GLBSE you might want to buy 1,000 BTC insurance from me.

Why would I want to insure GLBSE? It is pretty simple. I have a lot of coin from GLBSE that I will not be able to return if GLBSE shuts down. So if GLBSE does get shut down I would be in the perfect position to pay out.
If I am able to pay back my shareholders on GLBSE then I will not pay out insurance. If I am able to return the funds to my shareholders then GLBSE was not “shut down”.

Clearly the insurance cannot be listed on GLBSE. We will have to do this outside GLBSE but can list the information on the forum. 

At this time I am not offering to insure specific assets but I will be interested in hearing proposals. I do hope to expand this but will start out slowly.

Thank you.

Sorry El Cabron, you are banned from posting or sending personal messages on this forum.
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July 02, 2012, 12:57:16 PM
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You forgot to make one for Bitcoinica last time.  Wink

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July 02, 2012, 01:00:19 PM
 #3

You forgot to make one for Bitcoinica last time.  Wink

Yeah... That is why I never got involved. Now this is a win win for me. If GLBSE goes down I win. If GLBSE does not go down I win

 Grin
If GLBSE goes in a limbo like Bitcoinica now ( some funds are returned, some are not), who would win?  Wink

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July 02, 2012, 01:22:17 PM
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If GLBSE goes down I win.
How do you win if GLBSE goes down, if you offer insurance against this yourself?!

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July 02, 2012, 01:31:06 PM
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TyGrr Insurance   Hedge your GLBSE risk.

TyGrr Insurance is an operation that I have thought about for a long time but never developed.  It is hard to judge risk and keeping around a pile of coins to pay out was not what I wanted to do so I never got involved. However now I have the perfect thing to cover. GLBSE

What I will offer is GLBSE insurance. If GLBSE goes down for whatever reason, hacked and files deleted, nefario runs off, Feds take it over and shut it down I will pay out.

This should be used as a hedge for your investments on GLBSE. For example if you have 1,000 coins on GLBSE you might want to buy 1,000 BTC insurance from me.

Why would I want to insure GLBSE? It is pretty simple. I have a lot of coin from GLBSE that I will not be able to return if GLBSE shuts down. So if GLBSE does get shut down I would be in the perfect position to pay out.
If I am able to pay back my shareholders on GLBSE then I will not pay out insurance. If I am able to return the funds to my shareholders then GLBSE was not “shut down”.

Clearly the insurance cannot be listed on GLBSE. We will have to do this outside GLBSE but can list the information on the forum. 

At this time I am not offering to insure specific assets but I will be interested in hearing proposals. I do hope to expand this but will start out slowly.

Thank you.

What are your rates? Smiley

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July 02, 2012, 02:07:45 PM
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@Raphy

I was wondering how long it would take to get to that.

Honestly I have no idea. I will not do it for nothing but then again I clearly do not need to charge a lot to cover the costs of idle BTC.

I am open to offers for now.

Thanks:)

Arf, it has to come on the table :/

Well, I trust Nefario enough for not wanting to pay a lot for covering my glbse funds. Actually I would pay a lot more for Pirate's default insurance Smiley

So for me, I wouldn't pay more than 0.01% a month against a "glbse default".

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July 02, 2012, 02:14:25 PM
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More accurately, wouldn't this be a credit default swap?

To collect on the insurance in case of failure of GLBSE, do we have to transfer our right of recovery against GLBSE to you?

If not, can these be purchased purely to speculate on the potential failure of GLBSE by those without GLBSE holdings?
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July 02, 2012, 02:20:09 PM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_default_swap#Pricing_and_valuation

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July 02, 2012, 02:23:53 PM
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What about pirate and Nefario (might be the same person after all Cool) default at the same time? I think you are screwed  Grin
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July 02, 2012, 02:27:23 PM
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@Raphy

I was wondering how long it would take to get to that.

Honestly I have no idea. I will not do it for nothing but then again I clearly do not need to charge a lot to cover the costs of idle BTC.

I am open to offers for now.

Thanks:)

Arf, it has to come on the table :/

Well, I trust Nefario enough for not wanting to pay a lot for covering my glbse funds. Actually I would pay a lot more for Pirate's default insurance Smiley

So for me, I wouldn't pay more than 0.01% a month against a "glbse default".

I understand. I trust GLBSE too or else I would not operate on it. But for those who would like to hedge, I will offer the service. The amount you offer is honestly not worth the effort I'm sure you understand.

Of course I understand, that's how much I trust Nefario Cheesy

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July 02, 2012, 02:33:03 PM
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What about 0.5% a month?
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July 02, 2012, 02:48:47 PM
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0.5% a month is also still horrendously high if you compare this to some other insurance rates (non-bitcoin) - I can insure my home up to several 10000 EUR for less than 20 EUR a month. Also the idea alone of depositing money at pirate to cover for insurance cases makes me shake my head in disbelief.

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July 02, 2012, 03:12:11 PM
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GLBSE is however operated in the "real world" paid for in USD and Nefario exists not only in the block chain. The only difference is that you need to pay out in a highly volatile currency that (compared to most other volatile currencies like Zimbabwe Dollars) rather has a trend to shoot UP against USD than down lately making it quite hard for traditional insurance companies who have their assets in fiat currency backing the insured sums and pricing the fees.

Everything else is the same as in any other insurance company and even a bit worse - you won't be able to insure your risk somewhere else in BTC probably, you're probably not licensed to do insurance at all and are an anonymous person on the internet somewhere in a jurisdiction far far away. Still you want/need to charge far more than traditional insurances... I see the dilemma, but I can't give proper solutions either other than really getting in touch with an established fiat money insurance and having a serious talk with them.

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July 02, 2012, 03:32:32 PM
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What rate do you have in mind ?
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July 02, 2012, 03:42:53 PM
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I guess give me some time to feel this out and get back to you. I am open to offers and if it is reasonable I will take it.

Maybe you can think about 25-50-75-100% insurance rates too ?
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July 02, 2012, 05:10:07 PM
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I have a lot of coin from GLBSE that I will not be able to return if GLBSE shuts down. So if GLBSE does get shut down I would be in the perfect position to pay out.
If I am able to pay back my shareholders on GLBSE then I will not pay out insurance. If I am able to return the funds to my shareholders then GLBSE was not “shut down”.

Was this in the agreement that was in place when the "shareholders" purchased their "shares" that you issued?

Also, this is ludicrous.  So let's say the unfortunate event were to occur, you eventually deem GLBSE to be "shut down" and then pay out on this insurance.  But then you get a knock on your door from a TLA (three letter agency) investigating fraud as "shareholders" are demanding to be made whole.  Except you no longer have the money.

Problem?

(well, the problem with that is from me making the assumption that any TLA gives a rat's ass about any of this ... but I digress).

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July 03, 2012, 10:26:04 PM
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However if they do have the information on who is owed what, I will return the money to the asset holders and not the insurance.

And I'm suggesting the knock could come the day after you paid out on the insurance.

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July 04, 2012, 02:33:29 AM
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Does the word "Hedge" in the title mean that this will be a Hedge Fund?

 

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July 11, 2012, 11:03:31 PM
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Goat: I have a proposition for you. Can you provide 100% insurance against pirate defaulting for a specific amount of BTC?

Here is how the deal would work, if you're up for it:

- I would send you 1K BTC to put into a pirate account on behalf of my fund
- You would pay me 3.5% per week on the investment to a specific BTC address
- You would keep the other 3.5% per week for yourself
- However, if pirate defaults, then you still owe the 1K BTC to the fund

Let me know if you're interested in this kind of deal. I've been completely avoiding pirate in my fund because I don't understand what he's doing, but with full insurance provided by someone trustworthy, then it would obviously make sense to invest some capital here.

Let me know, thanks.
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July 12, 2012, 04:39:27 AM
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Goat: I have a proposition for you. Can you provide 100% insurance against pirate defaulting for a specific amount of BTC?

Here is how the deal would work, if you're up for it:

- I would send you 1K BTC to put into a pirate account on behalf of my fund
- You would pay me 3.5% per week on the investment to a specific BTC address
- You would keep the other 3.5% per week for yourself
- However, if pirate defaults, then you still owe the 1K BTC to the fund

Let me know if you're interested in this kind of deal. I've been completely avoiding pirate in my fund because I don't understand what he's doing, but with full insurance provided by someone trustworthy, then it would obviously make sense to invest some capital here.

Let me know, thanks.

The problem with this is you give me 1000 BTC and I put it with Pirate. I then need to have 1000 BTC ready in case there is a default. Now let us say that I can take that 1000 BTC and get 2% from it. so what I am really doing is getting 5.5% a week with the same risk of fail as if I were to put my full amount into pirate.

There is no way I could do anything like this.

For insurance you would have to pay an upfront premium and take less than 7%. Like say pay me 1500 BTC for 1000 BTC into the program getting 5% a week back. I would then be willing to take the risk that pirate will not default and if he does pay you back 1000BTC.

You have to take some risk as well, you would need to wait 10 weeks before you made back your premium.

Does this seem reasonable?

Thanks

Hmm I guess there's no way to do this using insurance. I cannot take any pirate default risk per my share contract.
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