LTCPPT - Litecoin Pirate Pass Through (CLOSED)

[coblee]

It's quite a risky idea if you don't know whether it's a Ponzi or not. I have lost 50 Bitcoins to Bitcoinica, and I'm not sure that as lead developer of ltc you should take on a high risk like that. People trust you and if you mess this one up, or if Pirate does, people will be mad at you anyway. It won't help you then that you told them "at your own risk only" when you ask people to trust you because you are convinced Pirate is not a Ponzi. It's a crazy, greedy idea and you could significantly hurt the entire Ltc project because of the connection between Ltc and your name and reputation. Personally, I want Ltc to be a success. Not sure what you're doing is the way to achieve that.

I'm doing this because I think this is a good way for people to accumulate Litecoins. And this will help the price. Of course there is a risk with Pirate. I think I'm pretty clear about that. If Pirate does default and LTCPPT does blow up, people might be mad at me. But it's not going to hurt the Litecoin project.

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[coblee]

Would it be possible to send you an amount in bitcoin and have you reinvest the litecoin interest?

Reinvest the litecoin interest in what? Are you saying you don't want me to pay you the Litecoin interest and instead compound the btc deposit? In that case, you wouldn't get any litecoins. So mind as well invest with bitcoinmax.

[dishwara]

Would it be possible to send you an amount in bitcoin and have you reinvest the litecoin interest?

I think coblee already doing what you are saying.
You send investment in bitcoins to coblee, he send it to pirate , he gets interest from pirate as bitcoin, he then buys litecoins from market & give you litecoins as interest to you.
If you want to withdraw then you get your deposit in bitcoin

[coblee]

Would it be possible to send you an amount in bitcoin and have you reinvest the litecoin interest?

Reinvest the litecoin interest in what? Are you saying you don't want me to pay you the Litecoin interest and instead compound the btc deposit? In that case, you wouldn't get any litecoins. So mind as well invest with bitcoinmax.

I was asking if it would be possible to compound the interest on the litecoins into more litecoins and have you manage it. Say I don't want them and only want to send you bitcoins and have you manage it. Then 6 months or a year from now, presto litecoins now have value to me and are worth something and I suddenly care about them again and want to withdraw them all. I think I may not be understanding how and in what *coin the payments/passthrough works.

Is it my understanding that bitcoins go in, and litecoins come out, right? So at whatever rate you had intended to "pay them out" is it possible to reinvest that interest payment back in the principle automagically? Or is it not possible because there exists no current method to do this. I thought possibly you were offering a vehicle to do this; your personal litecoin management and accounting skills.

I think I expect too much. The principal appears to be BTC, the interest appears to be LTC, and the vehicle is exactly that and nothing more. Is this correct?

Correct, I am using Pirate to turn bitcoins into more bitcoins. I currently have no way to turn litecoins into more litecoins. So reinvesting litecoins with me does not work. You can have the bitcoins compounded and then when you want to withdraw, you can exchange them all for litecoins. But then you don't need LTCPPT for that. If you want, I can hold the litecoins interest for you until you want them. But of course, those litecoins won't be generating anything every week.

[coblee]

Another passthrough that I'm considering using is payb.tc's bitcoinmax.com.

An option I'd like to open up to depositors is the option to be insured against the passthrough stealing your money. If you like to take that option, you will only get 4.5% interest a week, and you will only be at risk of a Pirate default. If I decide to put your money in a passthrough instead of directly with Pirate, then I take on full responsibility of the passthrough. In other words, if the passthrough steals the coins, I will still pay you back your deposit. If you'd like that option, please let me know.

[smoothie]

Another passthrough that I'm considering using is payb.tc's bitcoinmax.com.

An option I'd like to open up to depositors is the option to be insured against the passthrough stealing your money. If you like to take that option, you will only get 4.5% interest a week, and you will only be at risk of a Pirate default. If I decide to put your money in a passthrough instead of directly with Pirate, then I take on full responsibility of the passthrough. In other words, if the passthrough steals the coins, I will still pay you back your deposit. If you'd like that option, please let me know.

Could you be clearer on exactly what you are insuring against?

Is it against the fact that you don't get payouts from say payb.tc's passthrough that is obviously connected to pirate's passthrough? Meaning if pirate ran with the money (while using paybt.c's passthrough) you WOULD or WOULDN'T insure it?

[coblee]

Another passthrough that I'm considering using is payb.tc's bitcoinmax.com.

An option I'd like to open up to depositors is the option to be insured against the passthrough stealing your money. If you like to take that option, you will only get 4.5% interest a week, and you will only be at risk of a Pirate default. If I decide to put your money in a passthrough instead of directly with Pirate, then I take on full responsibility of the passthrough. In other words, if the passthrough steals the coins, I will still pay you back your deposit. If you'd like that option, please let me know.

Could you be clearer on exactly what you are insuring against?

Is it against the fact that you don't get payouts from say payb.tc's passthrough that is obviously connected to pirate's passthrough? Meaning if pirate ran with the money (while using paybt.c's passthrough) you WOULD or WOULDN'T insure it?

The insurance is only against payb.tc running away with the money and pirate not defaulting. If pirate ran away with the money, you will lose the coins.

By the way, it doesn't make sense for anyone to provide a fully insured passthrough. Because they would take on the full risk of a default and only the partial gains of the investment. So they mind as well just invest the money themselves.

[payb.tc]

By the way, it doesn't make sense for anyone to provide a fully insured passthrough. Because they would take on the full risk of a default and only the partial gains of the investment. So they mind as well just invest the money themselves.

i wrote similar reasoning in my thread, however i did later think of one reason where it might make sense:

where the passthrough operator doesn't personally own many coins, but can back up 'insurance' with other assets.

eg. if they own 100 btc, they could invest that in BST directly and get ALL the interest.

or, if they wanted to take the gamble, they could offer a 'fully-insured' passthrough and get maybe half the interest on 10,000's of BTC. *in this case the operator would be gambling their house and car and other assets because upon default they wouldn't have enough coins to cover it.

[coblee]

By the way, it doesn't make sense for anyone to provide a fully insured passthrough. Because they would take on the full risk of a default and only the partial gains of the investment. So they mind as well just invest the money themselves.

i wrote similar reasoning in my thread, however i did later think of one reason where it might make sense:

where the passthrough operator doesn't personally own many coins, but can back up 'insurance' with other assets.

eg. if they own 100 btc, they could invest that in BST directly and get ALL the interest.

or, if they wanted to take the gamble, they could offer a 'fully-insured' passthrough and get maybe half the interest on 10,000's of BTC. *in this case the operator would be gambling their house and car and other assets because upon default they wouldn't have enough coins to cover it.

That's true. But if that's the case, there's a very good chance the insurer would just default when Pirate defaults.  They are basically borrowing money to gamble with. That's not someone I would deposit money with.

[payb.tc]

By the way, it doesn't make sense for anyone to provide a fully insured passthrough. Because they would take on the full risk of a default and only the partial gains of the investment. So they mind as well just invest the money themselves.

i wrote similar reasoning in my thread, however i did later think of one reason where it might make sense:

where the passthrough operator doesn't personally own many coins, but can back up 'insurance' with other assets.

eg. if they own 100 btc, they could invest that in BST directly and get ALL the interest.

or, if they wanted to take the gamble, they could offer a 'fully-insured' passthrough and get maybe half the interest on 10,000's of BTC. *in this case the operator would be gambling their house and car and other assets because upon default they wouldn't have enough coins to cover it.

That's true. But if that's the case, there's a very good chance the insurer would just default when Pirate defaults.  They are basically borrowing money to gamble with. That's not someone I would deposit money with.

yes, it would be a very risky bet for both the passthrough operator and his lenders. not something i'd do.

[smoothie]

By the way, it doesn't make sense for anyone to provide a fully insured passthrough. Because they would take on the full risk of a default and only the partial gains of the investment. So they mind as well just invest the money themselves.

i wrote similar reasoning in my thread, however i did later think of one reason where it might make sense:

where the passthrough operator doesn't personally own many coins, but can back up 'insurance' with other assets.

eg. if they own 100 btc, they could invest that in BST directly and get ALL the interest.

or, if they wanted to take the gamble, they could offer a 'fully-insured' passthrough and get maybe half the interest on 10,000's of BTC. *in this case the operator would be gambling their house and car and other assets because upon default they wouldn't have enough coins to cover it.

That's true. But if that's the case, there's a very good chance the insurer would just default when Pirate defaults.  They are basically borrowing money to gamble with. That's not someone I would deposit money with.

yes, it would be a very risky bet for both the passthrough operator and his lenders. not something i'd do.

Hmm all of this borrowing and lending and "passthroughs" makes me just doubtful that the end result (whether sooner or later) will be a happy ending.

I just don't see this entire "pyramid" unwinding with no one losing money.

Just my take.

Insurance is something I would consider if it fully existed and not partially covering one entity running with the money.

I can keep wishing I guess...

[ShadowAlexey]

It all depends, offering only 100% secure deposits isnt rational at all. But when u run multiple stuff you may use this as financial buffer. Like in my case, I`ve bought insured ones from goat, but currently i dont need them. And in his place he offered scheme where we share responsibility, it`ll take my 2.5 month to get back my overpayment, and he`ll need 4-5 months to start getting profit even if pirate fails. But if he dont Goat would have a whole bunch of coins, so why not?)

[smoothie]

It all depends, offering only 100% secure deposits isnt rational at all. But when u run multiple stuff you may use this as financial buffer. Like in my case, I`ve bought insured ones from goat, but currently i dont need them. And in his place he offered scheme where we share responsibility, it`ll take my 2.5 month to get back my overpayment, and he`ll need 4-5 months to start getting profit even if pirate fails. But if he dont Goat would have a whole bunch of coins, so why not?)

This is the type of talk that in hind sight will sound ridiculous should any of the pyramids in place fall apart.

For someone to borrow your bitcoins at interest they need to be able to make a profit (crazy amount) to pay you and to have left over to call their own without it being a ponzi scheme.

Asking for insurance is rational.

Once again this shows you my thinking in that I'm not willing to risk 100% of my principal investment capital to make 7% a week with zero insurance.

I won't tell you what to do with your money.

 

Edit: Yes I saw goat's insured pass through...with pirate cutting rates soon the % won't be much given goat will be taking 1.5% of the x% pirate gives. x - 0.015

[ShadowAlexey]

Edit: Yes I saw goat's insured pass through...with pirate cutting rates soon the % won't be much given goat will be taking 1.5% of the x% pirate gives. x - 0.015

Is there smth i dont know about pirate, or rates are still going to be 7%/w for big accounts(with subs)? At least for 2 more months, and after you will have your bond amount fully insured, not so bad if u want to stay with btc for a long time...

It all  depends on what u want to get, because every 3 month u get 100% of your money, which would be 100% insurance after) It`s all depends on what u want to get.

[coblee]

Insurance is something I would consider if it fully existed and not partially covering one entity running with the money.

I can keep wishing I guess...

It seems like you just want a free lunch

[coblee]

I changed the poll. Please vote.

[smoothie]

Insurance is something I would consider if it fully existed and not partially covering one entity running with the money.

I can keep wishing I guess...

It seems like you just want a free lunch

Hehehehe...oh yes!

[coblee]

Someone told me that they already have money with payb.tc and they trust him so they will be happy for me to use him. Someone else told me that they also already have money with payb.tc, so they don't want me to use him because they want to be diversified. Go figure!

Here's what I'm planning on doing. payb.tc has a great website to keep track of deposits, so it will make my job easier to go with him. I will default all accounts to use payb.tc unless you tell me otherwise. So if you care, please let me know.

[coblee]

Someone told me that they already have money with payb.tc and they trust him so they will be happy for me to use him. Someone else told me that they also already have money with payb.tc, so they don't want me to use him because they want to be diversified. Go figure!

Here's what I'm planning on doing. payb.tc has a great website to keep track of deposits, so it will make my job easier to go with him. I will default all accounts to use payb.tc unless you tell me otherwise. So if you care, please let me know.

Ok, I've transferred all the coins to payb.tc (BitcoinMax) and Chaang Noi. By default, coins will be held at BitcoinMax. If you'd like me to hold your coins with Chaang Noi, please let me know. Also let me know if you like me to hold the coins directly with Pirate for 4.5% weekly interest. Please be aware that if your coins are with payb.tc or Chaang Noi and they default (i.e. steal your coins), then I will not be able to pay them back to you.

[Tachikoma]

Thanks for working on the different solutions, I'm sure every depositor has a solution that will work for him/her.

Will there be dividends this week because of this change?