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Author Topic: Look at a pirate, eye to eye if you dare.  (Read 56916 times)
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July 29, 2012, 11:33:59 PM
 #161


Oh really? http://www.talentzoo.com/digital-pivot/blog_news.php?articleID=6221

Quote
In general, courts globally seem to be treating virtual crime just as they would any real-world crime: If a person is found guilty of stealing, killing, ruining, or otherwise destroying an online-gaming experience for a person or group of persons, the penalties enacted will be similar to punishment of real-world crime, with noted exceptions. For example, killing an avatar will not be met with a life sentence in prison. However, the monetary loss sustained by the player will be comparable to real-world money loss, and criminals will end up with fines, probation, or even jail.

Hedge #1 "In general"
Hedge #2 "seem to be"

Two hedges for one sentence = weak sauce.

Then there's the part you didn't quote:

Quote
"Complaints about people’s identities and possessions being stolen within a game have been made before," said Rob Fahey, games analyst and former editor of gamesindustry.biz. "But because it exists only in a virtual world it is hard to say whether they are of any real value in the real world.

The resale of characters and their possessions is often against the rules set down by the makers of the games, but there are no criminal laws banning it.

tl;dr
U FAIL
Right, so you are ignoring the actual case law rulings (granted, Dutch law, but so what), and instead pointing out other parts of the article that don't have any bearing on Bitcoin outside of games. I would say you are the one that is failing here.

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July 29, 2012, 11:45:58 PM
 #162

And Vladimir used to be so level headed.  This sure has got his panties in a bunch.

He's not the only one that's started living full time in BTC Fantasy Land.

You can tell which ones have gone off the deep end easily.  They're the ones who actually believe that the Police Cops are going to ring up Interpol's cybercrime unit for the sake of tracking down their stolen/scammed BTC.

As if any law enforcement agency in the world has a Cryptocoin Recovery Division, or cares in the least about their Magic Internet Money.

They've completely lost it ('it' being contact with consensus reality).   Roll Eyes


I agree that it's unlikely Pirate (let alone his enablers and promoters) go to jail over this, but it's not because of the currency. Many actionable Ponzi schemes are denominated in irreversible online currencies like Liberty Reserve, and if there was enough loss in this scheme, I'm sure it would land on radars.

Although ~$1 million is a significant proportion of the bitcoin economy, it's not really much for a Ponzi scheme. http://www.ponzitracker.com/ Most of the victims are likely small fry kids playing on their parents computer and indirectly through PPTs (these aren't seniors losing their life savings here). Add to it the difficulty of proving that some person corresponds to the screen name and proving the transactions, and it's not a very appetizing case.
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July 30, 2012, 12:04:04 AM
 #163

Looks mostly the same as it did when I first invested many months ago.  Now the interest rates are lower, payouts are less often, and it's still a great return.  Nobody expects this to last forever and pirateat40 has demonstrated several times he will adjust his interest rate down as his profit margins are squeezed by competition.  I have had several private conversations with pirate and I am fairly confident of at least two legitimate revenue streams he has, and I suspect two others.  None are illegal as far as I know, and despite weeks of screaming, nobody has been able to provide one scrap of evidence to the contrary.  I will not provide more information about what I believe he is doing other than the obvious (gpumax) because competition will reduce his profits and thus my payouts.
I know it's tempting to believe something that's too good to be true if it's making you money, but let's examine that statement:

Let's say I tell you I have a business that turns over $10 million a year that you can invest in and I'll pay you very high returns.

"How about some accounts?" you say. No chance, my finances are private.
"Okay, what is your business doing?" you say. Not telling, you'd steal my idea.
"Okay, why don't you let me speak to some of your customers?" you say. I'm sorry, my customers are very private people.
"Right, well can I see some ID for you?" you say. No, sorry, my name is Captain Gobblescoque, please refer to me as that.
"Okay, how about a picture so I can at least see what you look like". No, Captain Gobblescoque is a very private person.

Do you:

A- Call me a lying sack of shit and tell me to stick my investment plan somewhere painful.
B- Give me all of your money and tell other people how amazing I am and that they should also give me all of their money, to the tune of millions of dollars.
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July 30, 2012, 12:09:15 AM
 #164

Guys, can we focus on Vegas for now? I see it's partially my fault this got so derailed, and that we'd be better get back on track. There will be enough angry people who try to sue someone later on.

It would help if other DefCon attendees would say something. Tuxavant mentioned at least two other people who were still waiting for Pirateat40 to show up. Could any of those please speak up? Does anyone know people who might have been there?
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July 30, 2012, 12:23:40 AM
 #165

In Vegas:

teflone, BitBlitz, Casascius, Micon (local in Vegas), Scared, Andrew Bitcoiner, ..?

Not sure if any and all of the above mentioned actually attended Defcon or just met privately outside of it. The names are taken from this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=90726.20

also:

DrHaribo (post #64, 125 of this thread)


Attending Defcon:

- gigavps (self disclosed)
- goat (self disclosed)
- TORwallet (self disclosed #38,39)

anyone else??
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July 30, 2012, 01:15:16 AM
 #166

Right, so you are ignoring the actual case law rulings (granted, Dutch law, but so what), and instead pointing out other parts of the article that don't have any bearing on Bitcoin outside of games. I would say you are the one that is failing here.

You are extrapolating the actions of one quirky judge in Holland, who made some bizarre ruling about virtual amulets and online runes, four years ago, to mean that a generic District Attorney and average Grand Jury would accept an indictment based on accusations of Magic Internet Money fraud/theft?

Wow. 

Please, for the love of comedy, provide us with a transcript of your conversation when you report Pirate or whatever Bit Bandit to (what passes for, in your feverish, cloistered worldview) the Proper Authorities.   Wink

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July 30, 2012, 01:45:35 AM
 #167

Nor did pirate say that he was attending DefCon, he just said he was going to Vegas. For all we know, he may be putting all the BS&T funds on red at the roulette table in a desperate attempt to keep his scheme afloat.

In that case, pirate may be lucky and can prolong his scheme long enough to win his bet with vandroiy.

Note that the bet doesn't end until October 1 2013, so putting it on red wouldn't be enough.  He's going to have to put it on a number.  Would 36x be enough to last until October?

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July 30, 2012, 04:16:54 AM
 #168

In Vegas:

teflone, BitBlitz, Casascius, Micon (local in Vegas), Scared, Andrew Bitcoiner, ..?

Not sure if any and all of the above mentioned actually attended Defcon or just met privately outside of it. The names are taken from this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=90726.20

also:

DrHaribo (post #64, 125 of this thread)


Attending Defcon:

- gigavps (self disclosed)
- goat (self disclosed)
- TORwallet (self disclosed #38,39)

anyone else??

Met a few great bitcoiners... Tux, Bitblitz, Andrew, and Alex...  You guys made my trip..  Smiley

Where was Pirate....   we dont know...




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July 30, 2012, 04:19:50 AM
 #169

Looks mostly the same as it did when I first invested many months ago.  Now the interest rates are lower, payouts are less often, and it's still a great return.  Nobody expects this to last forever and pirateat40 has demonstrated several times he will adjust his interest rate down as his profit margins are squeezed by competition.  I have had several private conversations with pirate and I am fairly confident of at least two legitimate revenue streams he has, and I suspect two others.  None are illegal as far as I know, and despite weeks of screaming, nobody has been able to provide one scrap of evidence to the contrary.  I will not provide more information about what I believe he is doing other than the obvious (gpumax) because competition will reduce his profits and thus my payouts.
I know it's tempting to believe something that's too good to be true if it's making you money, but let's examine that statement:

Let's say I tell you I have a business that turns over $10 million a year that you can invest in and I'll pay you very high returns.

"How about some accounts?" you say. No chance, my finances are private.
"Okay, what is your business doing?" you say. Not telling, you'd steal my idea.
"Okay, why don't you let me speak to some of your customers?" you say. I'm sorry, my customers are very private people.
"Right, well can I see some ID for you?" you say. No, sorry, my name is Captain Gobblescoque, please refer to me as that.
"Okay, how about a picture so I can at least see what you look like". No, Captain Gobblescoque is a very private person.

Do you:

A- Call me a lying sack of shit and tell me to stick my investment plan somewhere painful.
B- Give me all of your money and tell other people how amazing I am and that they should also give me all of their money, to the tune of millions of dollars.

1.  I have had private conversations with pirate about what he's doing.  No, I won't share.
2.  I have never encouraged anyone to invest their money with pirate.  Nor does he hold all my money.
3.  I have asked people to quit spamming the same points repeatedly and also to provide evidence for their claims.  My requests have been in vain.

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July 30, 2012, 07:08:10 AM
 #170

It seems that many of the posts since my "I've seen a pirate post" claim that I am somehow lying or misleading people on the forums. Here is the simple truth.

I brought my brother-in-law to Vegas to hang out and meet some people related to bitcoin. We've had the opportunity to meet pirateat40, reeses, Goat, copumpkin, pidgeons, Coinabul, Partrick from Intersango, OneFixt and his girlfriend, BurtW and Scared. I've probably missed a few people in the list.

I must say, meeting all of these people has been a pretty awesome experience. Pirate is a nice guy and we had a great time playing craps (BurtW taught pirate, Goat and I how to pay), roulette and 3 card poker. I also got to spend some time in the poker room with OneFixt. We've eaten dinner together, talked bitcoin and it's future and played some games in the casino.

Does this make me an expert in what pirate does? No.

For all of you that claim that because I've met pirateat40 I am now somehow responsible for his actions, well, you're logic is flawed.
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July 30, 2012, 07:13:05 AM
 #171

I guess people just what to know what you think... does he look like he will walk away tomorrow with all the coins or not.
The whole bitcoin community is holding their breath waiting for info... ( they do anyway every monday now even more so...)

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July 30, 2012, 07:21:05 AM
 #172

It seems that many of the posts since my "I've seen a pirate post" claim that I am somehow lying or misleading people on the forums. Here is the simple truth.

I brought my brother-in-law to Vegas to hang out and meet some people related to bitcoin. We've had the opportunity to meet pirateat40, reeses, Goat, copumpkin, pidgeons, Coinabul, Partrick from Intersango, OneFixt and his girlfriend, BurtW and Scared. I've probably missed a few people in the list.

I must say, meeting all of these people has been a pretty awesome experience. Pirate is a nice guy and we had a great time playing craps (BurtW taught pirate, Goat and I how to pay), roulette and 3 card poker. I also got to spend some time in the poker room with OneFixt. We've eaten dinner together, talked bitcoin and it's future and played some games in the casino.

Does this make me an expert in what pirate does? No.

For all of you that claim that because I've met pirateat40 I am now somehow responsible for his actions, well, you're logic is flawed.

Thank you for posting this! I've been waiting to hear something, anything.

It was so strange to me that Goat's posts were deleted.
I'm glad yall had a blast.
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July 30, 2012, 07:27:44 AM
 #173

gigavps, great to hear you had a blast!  it's funny to hear a meetup turn into an investigation lmao.

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July 30, 2012, 07:34:20 AM
 #174

It seems that many of the posts since my "I've seen a pirate post" claim that I am somehow lying or misleading people on the forums. Here is the simple truth.

I brought my brother-in-law to Vegas to hang out and meet some people related to bitcoin. We've had the opportunity to meet pirateat40, reeses, Goat, copumpkin, pidgeons, Coinabul, Partrick from Intersango, OneFixt and his girlfriend, BurtW and Scared. I've probably missed a few people in the list.

I must say, meeting all of these people has been a pretty awesome experience. Pirate is a nice guy and we had a great time playing craps (BurtW taught pirate, Goat and I how to pay), roulette and 3 card poker. I also got to spend some time in the poker room with OneFixt. We've eaten dinner together, talked bitcoin and it's future and played some games in the casino.

Does this make me an expert in what pirate does? No.

For all of you that claim that because I've met pirateat40 I am now somehow responsible for his actions, well, you're logic is flawed.

Perhaps I can clarify the problem here.

Nobody here, except for a select few, really have any idea of what Pirate does.  Furthermore, he is responsible for a lot of peoples' money.

Also, nobody here, except for a select few, have any sum of Bitcoins anywhere near the amount that Pirate, you, Goat, and likely several of the other ones that flew to Vegas have.  Additionally, many that flew to Vegas are some of Pirate's 'first in line' if you will -- they run pass-throughs and/or have very early Pirate accounts.

Consider how this appears from those outside looking in.  Some of the biggest names in Bitcoin meet with the 'biggest dog' (known, that is) in Bitcoin.  Yet, after this meeting, not much at all is said.

For example, nothing is said about...
1)  If Pirate appears as he does in the photos that are believed to be of him
2)  If Pirate discussed his operations or continuing plans for operation with those who attended
3)  If Pirate seems (opinion, of course) as though he is acting in the best interest of his lenders
4)  If Pirate seems (opinion, of course) as though he is acting in the best interest of Bitcoin

And thus many of us are left to wonder...

1)  Is Pirate going to steal everyone's money? E.G. by selling all BTC and crashing the market, killing everyone's investments.
2)  Are there others on the Bitcoin forum who are working as a part of Pirate's operation (i.e. they do more than lend Pirate BTC)
3)  Is Pirate (or others) deliberately trying to to mask his identity?

Etc., etc., etc.

Here's the thing.  Pirate has said things like "I'm looking to pull one bigger than my Bitcoin."  It's a big mistake for him to say something like this.  As I've said before, I'm almost completely sure about what Pirate does, but when he makes statements like that, it's really quite stupid of him if he wants to be truly successful.  It was solely because of those types of comments that I withdrew my PPT investments.  I don't even think Pirate has even said something along the lines of, "To my lenders -- I have your best interest at heart."  

To people that have a lot of money to begin with (i.e. those that flew to Vegas), it's easy to say "have trust in actions!" and forget the words, but to those without a lot of money, those words cast a large shadow of doubt.

Pirate's operation is called Bitcoin Savings & Trust.  We're trying to access that trust part.  Some of us don't have the time or money to fly to Vegas to check the guy out.  Would I have gone if I had the opportunity?  Yes, yes I would have.  But that possibility was unrealistic.

Now, with regards to you, GigaVPS, we assume that you are a lender, just like us, and are no different than the rest of us in the sense that we assume that you are a simple Pirate investor.  However, vague responses like "I have seen a Pirate, and he looks like a Pirate," while ultimately playful in nature, appear much different to the rest of the community.  It seems as though you are intentionally hiding something, or that Pirate has asked that you not reveal too much about what was discussed, etc.

Given that this forum has been virtually obsessed with Pirate's operation for the last 2 months, you have an opportunity to help relieve some of the community's worries.  Care to help us out a bit?

On a side note, Pirate, if you're reading this, consider what I just said.  You could actually have more investors deposit (more than you do already, thus allowing yourself the opportunity to profit even more) if you yourself alleviated some of these worries rather than displaying your typical brazen attitude.  That attitude might work because you have leverage, and you have the leverage you do because of your wealthiest lenders.  But, there are little guys here too who prefer reassurance rather than brazenness.  

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July 30, 2012, 07:58:24 AM
 #175

It seems that many of the posts since my "I've seen a pirate post" claim that I am somehow lying or misleading people on the forums. Here is the simple truth.

I brought my brother-in-law to Vegas to hang out and meet some people related to bitcoin. We've had the opportunity to meet pirateat40, reeses, Goat, copumpkin, pidgeons, Coinabul, Partrick from Intersango, OneFixt and his girlfriend, BurtW and Scared. I've probably missed a few people in the list.

I must say, meeting all of these people has been a pretty awesome experience. Pirate is a nice guy and we had a great time playing craps (BurtW taught pirate, Goat and I how to pay), roulette and 3 card poker. I also got to spend some time in the poker room with OneFixt. We've eaten dinner together, talked bitcoin and it's future and played some games in the casino.

Does this make me an expert in what pirate does? No.

For all of you that claim that because I've met pirateat40 I am now somehow responsible for his actions, well, you're logic is flawed.

Thanks for the invite guys, that showed some real top class elitism... 

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July 30, 2012, 08:13:58 AM
 #176

It seems that many of the posts since my "I've seen a pirate post" claim that I am somehow lying or misleading people on the forums. Here is the simple truth.

I brought my brother-in-law to Vegas to hang out and meet some people related to bitcoin. We've had the opportunity to meet pirateat40, reeses, Goat, copumpkin, pidgeons, Coinabul, Partrick from Intersango, OneFixt and his girlfriend, BurtW and Scared. I've probably missed a few people in the list.

I must say, meeting all of these people has been a pretty awesome experience. Pirate is a nice guy and we had a great time playing craps (BurtW taught pirate, Goat and I how to pay), roulette and 3 card poker. I also got to spend some time in the poker room with OneFixt. We've eaten dinner together, talked bitcoin and it's future and played some games in the casino.

Does this make me an expert in what pirate does? No.

For all of you that claim that because I've met pirateat40 I am now somehow responsible for his actions, well, you're logic is flawed.

Thanks for the invite guys, that showed some real top class elitism... 
AFAIK, all you had to do was contact Pirate for details on where he'd be when. Did he deny you?

ETA: Oh...

Don't mix your coins someone said isn't legal
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July 30, 2012, 08:16:40 AM
 #177

It seems that many of the posts since my "I've seen a pirate post" claim that I am somehow lying or misleading people on the forums. Here is the simple truth.

I brought my brother-in-law to Vegas to hang out and meet some people related to bitcoin. We've had the opportunity to meet pirateat40, reeses, Goat, copumpkin, pidgeons, Coinabul, Partrick from Intersango, OneFixt and his girlfriend, BurtW and Scared. I've probably missed a few people in the list.

I must say, meeting all of these people has been a pretty awesome experience. Pirate is a nice guy and we had a great time playing craps (BurtW taught pirate, Goat and I how to pay), roulette and 3 card poker. I also got to spend some time in the poker room with OneFixt. We've eaten dinner together, talked bitcoin and it's future and played some games in the casino.

Does this make me an expert in what pirate does? No.

For all of you that claim that because I've met pirateat40 I am now somehow responsible for his actions, well, you're logic is flawed.

Thanks for the invite guys, that showed some real top class elitism...  
AFAIK, all you had to do was contact Pirate for details on where he'd be when. Did he deny you?

He took my number... said he would call with details..

Its all good I see how this works now, us common folk were not welcome I guess...

Solid!  Smiley



Two groups of Bitcoiners meeting up in the same conference and not intersocializing between the two..

Laughable...



I really really enjoyed the bitcoiners I did meet, great people, talking with them about bitcoin truly made my trip, and I thank them all.

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July 30, 2012, 09:09:13 AM
 #178

Good stuff, thanks Giga Smiley

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July 30, 2012, 09:24:28 AM
 #179

It seems that many of the posts since my "I've seen a pirate post" claim that I am somehow lying or misleading people on the forums. Here is the simple truth.

I brought my brother-in-law to Vegas to hang out and meet some people related to bitcoin. We've had the opportunity to meet pirateat40, reeses, Goat, copumpkin, pidgeons, Coinabul, Partrick from Intersango, OneFixt and his girlfriend, BurtW and Scared. I've probably missed a few people in the list.

I must say, meeting all of these people has been a pretty awesome experience. Pirate is a nice guy and we had a great time playing craps (BurtW taught pirate, Goat and I how to pay), roulette and 3 card poker. I also got to spend some time in the poker room with OneFixt. We've eaten dinner together, talked bitcoin and it's future and played some games in the casino.

Does this make me an expert in what pirate does? No.

For all of you that claim that because I've met pirateat40 I am now somehow responsible for his actions, well, you're logic is flawed.
Thanks for posting facts as well! Smiley

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July 30, 2012, 10:31:16 AM
 #180

Pirate's operation is called Bitcoin Savings & Trust.  We're trying to access that trust part.  Some of us don't have the time or money to fly to Vegas to check the guy out.  Would I have gone if I had the opportunity?  Yes, yes I would have.  But that possibility was unrealistic.

Chances are you would not have been invited, just like teflone.

He was the first to answer to this thread, and seemed the most interested user. And then what? Oops, forgotten to call?
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