BS&T -- Are you staying or leaving?

[unclescrooge]

I'd be getting out if I had any, sure smells like trouble brewing.

What do you base that on? Increased amount of trolling? The trolls work themselves up into a frenzy over this once a month or so. Everytime it seems worse than the last. Everytime it settles down when pirate does what he said he would.

Mostly because of the response to it. When pirate locks his thread, and when his entourage start trying to silence people, I start wondering why? Is there a kernel of truth in there somewhere, and that's why it bothers them so bad?

His thread got locked cuz he had more post in his thread in a few hours than the rest of the forum combined. Also Mods were in their trolling an making claims they can't back up. Really it makes this forum and staff look like a joke.

Sure if you have something to support a claim make it. But saying ponzi 1,000 times does not mean it is a ponzi. Let us adult do with our money what we want. We do not need any one to regulate us. That is why we used BTC...

The mods esp PSY should know better than to be such off topic trolls...

Also no one ever said his program would last forever... Pirate has said the days for this are numbered... What it looks like to me is a small very loud group of people who can't figure out what pirate is doing (even though with a bit of thought its clear) and they are jelly...  What a joke they make themselves to be.

Most of the trolls are just pissed off they have not received 7% a week for the last year...

If it's so clear, and considering than in six month his business never missed the target profit, then why are you saying this is a very high risk venture to insure?

What he does is clear, and not a ponzy? Then you can insure my fund with pirate for a small fee and make a good profit in the end. Or am i missing something here?

[Vandroiy]

It is not running for a year yet. Hell, in he beginning Pirateat was mostly talking with himself just to make the logs.

Problem for you guys, Goat, is that you are running out of posters. Thus the thread was locked. People who have been on your side a week ago are now crying foul even though they got money out. No matter how much you post, severe Ponzi accusations will make people read up on the topic.

And we know you have a sharp time-out. How many weeks can the operation last without user base growth? We all know it's not long, and that's why we can keep up until it's over. Someone large will withdraw eventually, and if not, after a few weeks someone small can do it instead.

Game is over. Take whatever your share is and say goodbye to your forum status. You guys are overestimating yourselves, we can and will make sure there's nothing more to win here.

[Vladimir]

Most of the trolls are just pissed off they have not received 7% a week for the last year...

Most of the trolls do not give shit about past performance and your 7% . Most of the trolls just do not want you to continue to have those 7% much longer at expense of multiply naive victims of something that is very likely a ponzy scheme and at expense of wider Bitcoin Economy and Bitcoin's reputation and public perception. Trolls do not want to be associated with ponzi fraud even indirectly.

If it is indeed a ponzi scheme (which is highly likely) then YOU  and other fanboys by promoting it, clearly in order to extend your gains or protect your "investment", are potentially effectively being co-conspirators trying to deceive public for your personal gain (what is the definition of fraud again?).

The sooner the ponzi bubble collapses, the less is damage and the better wider Bitcoin Economy will be long term.

And there is not that much time left...

Let us adult do with our money what we want. We do not need any one to regulate us.

Would it be correct to translate this as "leave us alone and give us some more time to inflate this baby and do not scare off naive suckers for a little bit longer?"

[bulanula]

I am just wondering after the folding what will happen with the multiple of people promoting the scheme and their reputations ...

[hazek]

Let us adult do with our money what we want. We do not need any one to regulate us. That is why we used BTC...

Yeah sorry to burst your ponzi "investor" apologist's bubble but that's not how a market regulated by strictly market consumers (i.e. the free market) works.

No no no.. People may have learned this lie in public school that if there is no government regulation then there is no regulation at all and chaos follows but as you can see that's not the case at all. I can't wait for this scam to implode so that this market gets more aware of the dangers lurking for to scam and steal and some private agencies pop up that will provide the service of audits and ratings which right now aren't being done like at all. All we have are a few concerned participants raising valid concerns trying to educate the less financially literate but make no mistake, this too are perfectly valid and inescapable regulations that naturally arise in any free market.

[hazek]

I am just wondering after the folding what will happen with the multiple of people promoting the scheme and their reputations ...

Nothing although I plan to singlehandedly change that in the future with a service I have plans to develop.

[bulanula]

I am just wondering after the folding what will happen with the multiple of people promoting the scheme and their reputations ...

Nothing although I plan to singlehandedly change that in the future with a service I have plans to develop.

Good to hear.

The bitcoin-otc system is a total joke dominated by these same "people" and their sockies.

Filled with false ratings and total admiration of each other between these "high profile" guys.

[Jonny Heggheim]

<rant>
What is it with all posters that spam all BS&T threads with ponzi-propaganda? This thread were about are you staying or leaving? Why do users that have never invested into BS&T spam this thread?
</rant>

I will stay, but I will wait to reinvest my weekly payment till I see what happens with the trust/ppt scheme.

[conspirosphere.tk]

Premised that I am exposed to pirate both by PPT.Xs and bitcoinmax for about 50% of my BTC capital (the other 50 in mining companies -where I already lost nicely with their valuation -and before that I lost with Goat's "bank"), I too can figure that even if is not a ponzi, 3000%+ yoy sounds mathematically not sustainable in the medium to long term. However, this says nothing about what will happen at some point about the return OF the capital of lenders. Pirate might disappear with the loot, or he could return the capital (in full or in part) to his lenders and say game over.
Since I don't know, and I am aware that I might lose my investment, for the moment I keep hoping that the party keeps going playing my BTC (which are play money, nothing that could change my life) with pirate knowing that it must be high risk.
I lost more than I can lose now when I bought BTCs at 20$ each, and then buying radeons not considering well electricity costs and the speed of difficulty increase, so one can screw up investing in anything -even in things sounding much more safe and sound.

[Vladimir]

Premised that I am exposed to pirate both by PPT.Xs and bitcoinmax for about 50% of my BTC capital (the other 50 in mining companies -where I already lost nicely with their valuation -and before that I lost with Goat's "bank"),

And note how upcoming changes to mining scene were rather clearly signalled to you and others  by yours truly well in advance.

I lost more than I can lose [...] buying radeons not considering well electricity costs and the speed of difficulty increase, so one can screw up investing in anything -even in things sounding much more safe and sound.

ohh and this too.

same here ,)
50% of my btc invested in pirate - and they will stay there (but i moved from TYGGR-P to bitcoinmax)

...

and yes: i also did loose MUCH more when i bought at 26$ and my energy cost where "up through the roof" (but i stopped mining a while ago; waiting for my jalapeno to start again).

And chances are that those jalapeno's while being a great gift and probably having nice coolness factor, still will not have that great ROI over it's lifetime as many hope for.

you all should only invest play money in btc. in the end of the day it could be that btc are only woth 0.01$ again (even without pirate)

Yep, people, do not "invest" your rent, food, and college money like that, pretty please.

[flower1024]

Premised that I am exposed to pirate both by PPT.Xs and bitcoinmax for about 50% of my BTC capital (the other 50 in mining companies -where I already lost nicely with their valuation -and before that I lost with Goat's "bank"), I too can figure that even if is not a ponzi, 3000%+ yoy sounds mathematically not sustainable in the medium to long term. However, this says nothing about what will happen at some point about the return OF the capital of lenders. Pirate might disappear with the loot, or he could return the capital (in full or in part) to his lenders and say game over.
Since I don't know, and I am aware that I might lose my investment, for the moment I keep hoping that the party keeps going playing my BTC (which are play money, nothing that could change my life) with pirate knowing that it must be high risk.
I lost more than I can lose now when I bought BTCs at 20$ each, and then buying radeons not considering well electricity costs and the speed of difficulty increase, so one can screw up investing in anything -even in things sounding much more safe and sound.

same here ,)
50% of my btc invested in pirate - and they will stay there (but i moved from TYGGR-P to bitcoinmax)

and yes: i also did loose MUCH more when i bought at 26$ and my energy cost where "up through the roof" (but i stopped mining a while ago; waiting for my jalapeno to start again).

you all should only invest play money in btc. in the end of the day it could be that btc are only woth 0.01$ again (even without pirate)

btw. i think pirate is one of the reasons bitcoin prices are a little higher again. more people keep their btc to invest with pirate - instead of selling them.

[hazek]

No one with half a brain thinks it is a ponzi...

Precisely, only those with a whole brain financially and economically literate do.

[hazek]

6 months from now you will be calling ponzi, 1 year from now you will be calling it a ponzi. We get it you think it is a ponzi move on unless you really have nothing better to do with your life.

If you really believe that then I'm sure you've made a huge bet here: http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=433

Bitcoin Savings and Trust will default before the end of 2012
(This bet is a mirror of prediction #349.)
http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=349

The assertion is that Bitcoin Savings and Trust will default on payments on or before December 31. 2012.

This assertion is true if Bitcoin Savings and Trust is unwilling or unable to pay out requested deposits on or before December 31st, 2012 according to the opinion of Bitcointalk.org members on the Bitcoin Savings and Trust Forum Thread.

Bitcoin Savings and Trust Forum Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.0

Info
Opening date: June 7, 2012
Bet deadline: Dec. 29, 2012 end of day Eastern Time
Event date: Dec. 31, 2012 end of day Eastern Time
Category: Economics
Total agree bets: 5.50
Total disagree bets: 0.50
Total weighted agree bets: 25002.851
Total weighted disagree bets: 2452.406

[Sukrim]

But then I realized the odds are much greater that your mag goes out of print way before Pirates bank closes up...

Well, currently pirate's wallet size is [some numbers]3.76618902 and it's much [higher/lower] than you might think! I won't post numbers though until I did more analysis, also it could be expected that he doesn't have huge bitcoin holdings all the time - after all he claims to be trading with them!

[EskimoBob]

I opened a nice gold beer. Please, keep writing. This is so funny.

Let me remind you that none of you (including me) have no idea how Pirate is actually making money.

[conspirosphere.tk]

How did you lose money with TyGrr-Bond.B (Goat's Bank) It is still being traded on GLBSE and has never missed a dividend payment? Can you please make this clear??

We had an exchange of PMs and on some thread about it months ago. It was when you started to unilaterally reduce the dividends more and more, and I was unable to sell them nowhere near the price that I paid them, since their price was crashing as a result. So in the end I sold all of my 240+ bonds to you at their nominal price.  But we are OT.

[Vladimir]

Let me remind you that none of you (including me) have no idea how Pirate is actually making money.

I beg to differ, some of us it seems have a very good idea about that, probabilistically at least. And Occam's Razor is on our side too.

[flower1024]

Let me remind you that none of you (including me) have no idea how Pirate is actually making money.

I beg to differ, some of us it seems have a very good idea about that, probabilistically at least.

and others know exactly what he is doing...

thats what he said!
but i do believe he is honest... i have my own idea of his "operation".

[unclescrooge]

One thing I don't understand. Pirate doesn't want to publicize his business to avoid competition. Fine, sure.

But a lot of people around here seems to know pretty well what he does. My question is then, why haven't we another pirate? Why haven't we competitors? Some cool glbse bonds unrelated to pirate but with great profit like his?

Or am I again missing something here?

[Vladimir]

Let me remind you that none of you (including me) have no idea how Pirate is actually making money.

I beg to differ, some of us it seems have a very good idea about that, probabilistically at least.

and others know exactly what he is doing...

Yep, there is that magical secret biz model that "others" know exactly how it works and which is:
- not involving any ponzi either direct or by proxy, but demonstrates ALL the relevant red flags;
- having size of 20-50% of whole Bitcoin Economy by now; (any decent estimates BTW?)
- so magically profitable,
- but somehow it must involve hordes of pushers on forums and constant fight for new suckers;
- it must somehow involve many levels of intermediaries, that take their cut;
- cannot be financed by any traditional means of capital formation;
- must be operated anonymously;
- so much similar to confessions of EVE's Curring Trading;

Did I miss anything?

nice try