BitStamp - hacked and down

[Pustul]

Bitcoin price is going down = exchangers are making millions from the difference of price.

Bitstamp will pay(IF) the so called loss from your money not from their own pockets.

- let's say you bought 250 BTC with 100K via bank wire. 1 BTC = 400
- you trade for a while and you see the price is going down. what do you think? hey, let's sell and I am recovering a part of my money; and you sell.
- now, you will you see 250 BTC for 70K.   1 BTC = 280 USD

The exchanger will send you the bank wire for 70K but he is sending the transfer from YOUR 100K.  
Exchanger profit = 30K because he has your 100K (USD/EURO) in his bank account already.

Now, a new "investor" will come thinking "Bitcoin price is down, it's time to buy". The price is raising and then it will fall.
Of course, the big exchangers are "giving" money from the previous HUGE earnings just to attract new fouls with new funds. Smiley

This is for a short period of time. They give "some" and they will earn A LOT.

That's why they need visibility/noise in the news. Because with every single news other fouls will come with new funds.

...And that's why the exchangers are having very, very low fees of 0.2% for trading or free for withdrawals. They do not care about these money. The REAL money are made with the Bitcoin price. How can financial company exists with 0.2% per transaction?

There are few BIG exchangers(Bitstamp is in this gang) and they give the Bitcoing price.
They know the market, they know what funds are coming, the other small exchangers are related with them(all the small exchangers are exchanging with the big ones) .

Now, tell me. Do you really think that there is no manipulation on market? I am not addresing the question to monkeys, hipters  but to people with a human brain Smiley

Get real, the exchangers are making millions from the Bitcoin price and not from "trading"

Well, no.

1. You tend to forget that you do not trade "with" an exchange, but "over" an exchange. If youa ctually bought at 400/BTC and then sold at 280/BTC someone will be having the money you now do not have anymore. But this someone is not the exchange. It is another trader (could be me;).
-->exchanges need the money from fees (there are way better ways to cheat anyway).
2. Yes there is manipulation. massive manipulation. it is because it is not forbidden at all. But again, giving only the exchanges credit for that would be wrong. simply unregulated market. live with it or go to a regulated market. but don´t make yourself be sorry about it.
-->Why does a dog lick his balls? right. that´s why.

1. so, you send 100k to an exchanger to buy 250 BTC/400 USD and then you sell 250 BTC for 270 USD. The money are already in the exchanger's bank account; those 100 K.
you will only get 70k. there is a difference of 30K IN THE exchanger's bank account.
100-70 = 30K

"other trader"(or maybe the exchanger in disguise), anyway...you as seller do not care, is coming to buy 250 BTC but for 270 USD for a total amount of 70K.
what did I say wrong? you will lose 30K in any way you want. This money  belongs to the exchanger because he received your initial deposit of 100K.
The new "trader" will have to wire 70K to exchanger in order to get 250 BTC.

2. you are right. unregulated market. then,the people should not cry after their money lost with MTgox or with other exchangers.

I see where you are going.
So all the money in the exchanges bank account belongs to the exchange? well that is only true, if you believe the exchange will not payout your fiat balance and simply keep the money (Then again all the 100k would be "lost" as soon as you deposit them).

But this is not what is going on at bitstamp, this is what is going on at hitbtc right now.

no, I am saying that the exchanger will pay you the money, 70K but he will keep 30K because the price, guess what, fell

those 30K belongs to whom? where are those 30K?  30K are in intial 100K that you initially sent to exchanger.

the exchanger will pay you 70K from your 100K. 30K is lost for you and "earned" for exchanger and all that because "they can"


why do you think so many people are involved in this business? for 800K profit per year(this is what Bitstamp declared in 2013)?
ha ha...

They hired a forner Paypal chief. Do you think that this guy came for 3000 USD per month? he came for at least 20K/month.
BitStamp is having a lot of people to pay. They cannot afford to have 0.2% per trade

the big money are coming from what I said above, Bitcoin price.
Imagine they receive 2 MIL/day bank wire deposits. That means 7400 BTC/270 USD

let's say the prices is dropping at 250 USD in 2 days(very possible). that means 7400 x 270 = 1,850,000 USD
2,000,000 - 1,850,000 = 150,000 USD in 2 days.

now, try to calculate for the last month when the price dropped with 100 USD.
2 mil per day deposit x 20 = 40 mil usd. . they earn around of 2- 3 MIL NET PROFIT in ONE month

We can over say 1 mil/month net profit.  

the "trading fees" are pocket money .

Come on, seriously? When you buy/sell btc on an exchange you're not trading with the exchange but with another user.

Let's take your example, A opens an account at bitstamp and deposit 100k, then buys 250 BTC at 400 USD/BTC. Those 100k will go to user B's account. B cashes out those 100k and bitstamp wires them to him... Then user C comes to invest, he deposits 70k on his account. Then he buys the 250 BTC user A sells for 280 USD/BTC after the price drop and bistamp sends a wire for 70k to user A. See, da money is not in the pocket of the exchange

[mayax]

this is one pattern but many exchangers are dealing themself as user B

[mayax]

Bitstamp is closed but we know that they are related with Coinbase,Bitfinex and other exchangers who were processing their orders through them.
The question is which one will be affected of this loss.  

[DogecoinMachine]

Was this an inside job? 

[mayax]

Was this an inside job? 

we cannot exclude that. Bitstamp is an old and big exchanger.It was supposed to have good programmers. Why weren't hacked half a year ago?
I bet many others hackers have tried to steal their Bitcoin until now.

let's not forget that this is a pattern for "how to run with the money" in this industry.

[DogecoinMachine]

And definitely a bad advertisement for Bitcoin as a currency 
In public magazines, bitcoin is always related to hackers, steals, frauds and illegal activities, which pisses me off 

[mayax]

And definitely a bad advertisement for Bitcoin as a currency  
In public magazines, bitcoin is always related to hackers, steals, frauds and illegal activities, which pisses me off  

which is true and we have to admit it. there is a small percent of people who are using it for "trading" only.
it is a manipulated market(exchangers are doing it).
a simple example is today. Bitstamp died and the BitCoin price is the same.

Do not tell me that the people were not in a little panic and they didn't sell or others were so enthusiasts and bought same day with the Bitstamp crash.

Normally, the price should go down at least for few hours or so. it's obvious that the other big exchangers and the Bitcoin foundation are making the game...

[DogecoinMachine]

And definitely a bad advertisement for Bitcoin as a currency  
In public magazines, bitcoin is always related to hackers, steals, frauds and illegal activities, which pisses me off  

which is true and we have to admit it. there is a small percent of people who are using it for "trading" only.
it is a manipulated market(exchangers are doing it).
a simple example is today. Bitstamp died and the BitCoin price is the same.

Do not tell me that the people were not in a little panic and they didn't sell or others were so enthusiasts and bought same day with the Bitstamp crash.

Normally, the price should go down at least for few hours or so. it's obvious that the other big exchangers and the Bitcoin foundation are making the game...

True...
http://bitcoinity.org/markets/list?currency=ALL&span=6m

For 6 months timespan, Bitstamp has only 4% of the market.
China leading with almost 80%

[mayax]

And definitely a bad advertisement for Bitcoin as a currency  
In public magazines, bitcoin is always related to hackers, steals, frauds and illegal activities, which pisses me off  

which is true and we have to admit it. there is a small percent of people who are using it for "trading" only.
it is a manipulated market(exchangers are doing it).
a simple example is today. Bitstamp died and the BitCoin price is the same.

Do not tell me that the people were not in a little panic and they didn't sell or others were so enthusiasts and bought same day with the Bitstamp crash.

Normally, the price should go down at least for few hours or so. it's obvious that the other big exchangers and the Bitcoin foundation are making the game...

True...
http://bitcoinity.org/markets/list?currency=ALL&span=6m

For 6 months timespan, Bitstamp has only 4% of the market.
China leading with almost 80%

I doubt that. Why? because the chineses (Okcoin, BTChina, Huobi and others) are faking the data.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/chinese-bitcoin-exchange-accused-faking-trade-data-1430122

[DogecoinMachine]

Ha!
Thank you for this article, didn't know that.

[mayax]

my question remains : Bitstamp is closed but we know that they are related with Coinbase, Bitfinex and MANY other exchangers who were processed their orders through BitStamp.

The question is which one will be more affected  because they surely lost a lot of bitcoin too.

[picolo]

On January 4th, some of Bitstamp’s operational wallets were compromised, resulting in a loss of less than 19,000 BTC is stated on bitstamp.net

How much BTC are they suppose to hold?

[mayax]

On January 4th, some of Bitstamp’s operational wallets were compromised, resulting in a loss of less than 19,000 BTC is stated on bitstamp.net

How much BTC are they suppose to hold?

2-3 K bitcoin or less in their operational wallet

[sandykho47]

my question remains : Bitstamp is closed but we know that they are related with Coinbase, Bitfinex and MANY other exchangers who were processed their orders through BitStamp.

The question is which one will be more affected  because they surely lost a lot of bitcoin too.

If BitStamp have to be closed down, it will be horrible news for bitcoin & bitcoin price
Many people's will doubt bitcoin

And some services have big loss

[ciappa]

my question remains : Bitstamp is closed but we know that they are related with Coinbase, Bitfinex and MANY other exchangers who were processed their orders through BitStamp.

The question is which one will be more affected  because they surely lost a lot of bitcoin too.

Sorry but I do not understand what you mean with related with Coinbase, Bitfinex ...?

[mayax]

my question remains : Bitstamp is closed but we know that they are related with Coinbase, Bitfinex and MANY other exchangers who were processed their orders through BitStamp.

The question is which one will be more affected  because they surely lost a lot of bitcoin too.

Sorry but I do not understand what you mean with related with Coinbase, Bitfinex ...?

Coinbase, Bitfinex and others included the Bitstamp order book into their own order book.
In short, if you placed an order with Bitfinex,  your order was processed by Bitstamp even you were on Bitfinex's website.
Bitfinex "fowarded" your order to Bitstamp through an API.

[ciappa]

my question remains : Bitstamp is closed but we know that they are related with Coinbase, Bitfinex and MANY other exchangers who were processed their orders through BitStamp.

The question is which one will be more affected  because they surely lost a lot of bitcoin too.

Sorry but I do not understand what you mean with related with Coinbase, Bitfinex ...?

Coinbase, Bitfinex and others included the Bitstamp order book into their own order book.
In short, if you placed an order with Bitfinex,  your order was processed by Bitstamp even you were on Bitfinex's website.
Bitfinex "fowarded" your order to Bitstamp through an API.

Thank you, i did not know that! which means that all orders of bitfinex ran over bitstamp?

[mayax]

my question remains : Bitstamp is closed but we know that they are related with Coinbase, Bitfinex and MANY other exchangers who were processed their orders through BitStamp.

The question is which one will be more affected  because they surely lost a lot of bitcoin too.

Sorry but I do not understand what you mean with related with Coinbase, Bitfinex ...?

Coinbase, Bitfinex and others included the Bitstamp order book into their own order book.
In short, if you placed an order with Bitfinex,  your order was processed by Bitstamp even you were on Bitfinex's website.
Bitfinex "fowarded" your order to Bitstamp through an API.

Thank you, i did not know that! which means that all orders of bitfinex ran over bitstamp?

Many of them, yes. Anyway, it must be 50% or more.

[Dilemma]

another big bitcoin scandal
it s very bad for btc's future
people wants safetly system..

[mayax]

another big bitcoin scandal
it s very bad for btc's future
people wants safetly system..

you cannot have a so called safe system while it's not regulated.

it's very curious that the Bitcoin price is the same.

the other big exchangers are faking the transactions for sure otherwise who will BUY these days? most of the people are selling