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sadpandatech
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July 14, 2012, 04:37:59 PM
 #21

this is the only lead thus far on it. Not verified yet.

^^^  This.

Also appreantly, assuming this is correcct, the hacker donated 100 to Zohu's fund.

I'm poking through it now trying to find a 100 tx   though I'm not very good at it..


It is all conjecture at this point... it could be coniciendce as well.

nope, I found it.


edit; http://blockchain.info/tree/11999735   follow the tree out 9 tx's, you will see the 100 go to the addy ZT posted.


edit2; from here; http://blockchain.info/address/19X4nKW8Swm32UHLZ5LFuacCu9DBr1rfDJ

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
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Raoul Duke
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July 14, 2012, 08:13:50 PM
 #22

this is the only lead thus far on it. Not verified yet.

^^^  This.

Also appreantly, assuming this is correcct, the hacker donated 100 to Zohu's fund.

I'm poking through it now trying to find a 100 tx   though I'm not very good at it..


It is all conjecture at this point... it could be coniciendce as well.

nope, I found it.


edit; http://blockchain.info/tree/11999735   follow the tree out 9 tx's, you will see the 100 go to the addy ZT posted.


edit2; from here; http://blockchain.info/address/19X4nKW8Swm32UHLZ5LFuacCu9DBr1rfDJ


Mmmh.
Very odd.
Neither blockexplorer.com nor my tools have ever seen address 1Cc7nc5Rgwnh5qfWc5jKymyn5d6Y1PcXjj used in a TX.
Yet blockchain.info does see a TX for this Huh
Looks like I'm missing something here.


uh? Search for the address in these 2 blocks here and you'll find it.
http://blockexplorer.com/block/000000000000011d7a73b1ad92f1027193c921138ada76ac6cca73d1440bef6f
http://blockexplorer.com/block/0000000000000694c34b7083179c11e79ca71ff7d1d02483f957712e037983e2


The 40k BTC tx: http://blockexplorer.com/tx/24f7c6836156e9d23cabde0db5dcbca3d95fde34f31673f2bce26c8c8e05ed5a
The address page: http://blockexplorer.com/address/1Cc7nc5Rgwnh5qfWc5jKymyn5d6Y1PcXjj

Theymos should fix blockexplorer as the search times out before returning results Wink

sadpandatech
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July 14, 2012, 11:20:43 PM
 #23


could it be anything to do with that tx coming directly from a mywallet addy at blockahin.info? maybe one coming from their main addy to another mywallet created addy. Trying to check it with another addy paid form the Lnw one but blockexplorer.com is timing out. That and I can't verify the random one I am checking is even mywallet to a mywallet addy.

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
sadpandatech
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July 14, 2012, 11:22:55 PM
 #24

shows up here on blockexplorer; http://blockexplorer.com/block/0000000000000694c34b7083179c11e79ca71ff7d1d02483f957712e037983e2


http://blockexplorer.com/address/1Cc7nc5Rgwnh5qfWc5jKymyn5d6Y1PcXjj

that looks really screwy though. it looks like it sent the 39k~ change back to itself. which just seems weird to me, not knowing what conditions would do this. It makes it appear the total received is 40k + 39k~ even though the 39k came from the same address as change. I must be reading it wrong.

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
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July 15, 2012, 04:08:31 AM
 #25

You’re not suggesting that someone in the Bitcoin community could be doing something inappropriate are you? That can’t be right because this place isn’t controlled and regulated by those nasty governments. It’s controlled by the good people of the earth. LOL
Money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who do not have it.

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I advocate the Zeitgeist Movement & Venus Project.


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July 15, 2012, 05:25:07 AM
 #26

You’re not suggesting that someone in the Bitcoin community could be doing something inappropriate are you? That can’t be right because this place isn’t controlled and regulated by those nasty governments. It’s controlled by the good people of the earth. LOL
Money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who do not have it.

Sounds like an argument for financial regulatory systems.

Or a reason to abandon arbitrary games, false authority and antiquated traditions. Why don't we base our economy of of the actual resources of the earth as opposed to an idea called money. We can use science and technology to our benefit, but only if we stop being funneled into using it to our detriment by a false economy.

Bitcoin combines money, the wrongest thing in the world, with software, the easiest thing in the world to get wrong.
Visit www.thevenusproject.com and www.theZeitgeistMovement.com.
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July 15, 2012, 06:26:10 AM
 #27

Or a reason to abandon arbitrary games, false authority and antiquated traditions. Why don't we base our economy of of the actual resources of the earth as opposed to an idea called money. We can use science and technology to our benefit, but only if we stop being funneled into using it to our detriment by a false economy.
Quote from: LightRider
I advocate the Zeitgeist Movement & Venus Project.
A planned economy controlled by the intellectual elite didn't work in the USSR or anywhere else it has ever been tried.

The ideas in the Venus Project are taken nearly word-for-word from the 1917 Russian Revolution propaganda but with computers this time, as if that's going to make a difference.
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July 15, 2012, 07:25:18 AM
 #28

Why don't we base our economy of of the actual resources of the earth as opposed to an idea called money.

Other than an appeal to nature, why are "the actual resources of the earth" more desirable than the alternative?
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July 15, 2012, 10:25:09 AM
 #29

A csv with timestamps + balance would be neat to make a cool chart. Damn, now I really need to set up Ubuntu to get your thingie running... Cheesy

Your wish has come true.
Latest git has csv output for transactions:

Code:
./parser closure 1PSf86KnLuzM7Ris5kDhTEZwooR3p2iyfV > PIRATE-CLOSURE
./parser transactions --csv file:PIRATE-CLOSURE  > PIRATE-CLOSURE-TX.csv

Here's what it looks like when you graph it :


Well, at least he still seems to be able to get rid of huge blocks of BTC at once...

Next step should be imho to do the following:
Create clusters out of all addresses where money from or to pirate was transmitted, then write the complete sums as incoming/outgoing to each of them.

Example:
Cluster 1: Sent 1500 to pirate, received 170 from pirate (addresses: 1bitcoinaddress1234, ...)
Cluster 2: Sent 10000 to pirates, received 1337 from pirate (addresses: 1otheraddress1234, ...)

Then it would be apparent (maybe) if there's a cluster (or several clusters) where a lot of funds from pirate are going to and/or coming from.

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copumpkin
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July 16, 2012, 05:38:05 AM
 #30

A csv with timestamps + balance would be neat to make a cool chart. Damn, now I really need to set up Ubuntu to get your thingie running... Cheesy

Your wish has come true.
Latest git has csv output for transactions:

Code:
./parser closure 1PSf86KnLuzM7Ris5kDhTEZwooR3p2iyfV > PIRATE-CLOSURE
./parser transactions --csv file:PIRATE-CLOSURE  > PIRATE-CLOSURE-TX.csv

Here's what it looks like when you graph it :


Well, at least he still seems to be able to get rid of huge blocks of BTC at once...

Next step should be imho to do the following:
Create clusters out of all addresses where money from or to pirate was transmitted, then write the complete sums as incoming/outgoing to each of them.

Example:
Cluster 1: Sent 1500 to pirate, received 170 from pirate (addresses: 1bitcoinaddress1234, ...)
Cluster 2: Sent 10000 to pirates, received 1337 from pirate (addresses: 1otheraddress1234, ...)

Then it would be apparent (maybe) if there's a cluster (or several clusters) where a lot of funds from pirate are going to and/or coming from.

Easier said than done.

I'd need "seed addresses" for each cluster.

So far, the only address I have that is known to belong to pirate
is this one because he himself confirmed that he controls it.


Wouldn't a brute-forcey way to do this be to take every output from all transactions out of the known pirate cluster and try to build clusters of those, too? Each output from pirate's cluster can get the znort treatment to build pseudo-wallets, and then you could make another pass to tally up total movements between all the clusters you care about. Feed into graphviz, make directed arrows between clusters with thickness dependent on how much total movement went in that direction, and make the cluster (visual) size proportional to total balance in the cluster at the end of the period. For extra points, animate this over time with edge thickness showing an exponential weighted average, and cluster size being instantaneous total coins.

Unfortunately, the computational complexity of running your algorithm once for each output sounds prohibitive, so we probably need a smarter approach Smiley

P.S: I still haven't had a chance to play with the union-find approach to building clusters. If we wanted to apply the idea to this multi-cluster problem, we'd probably want to store the data on disk somewhere, both for easier access and to avoid eating someone's RAM. Luckily, the union-find structure is pretty trivial to implement in a database, if you don't mind an additional logarithmic factor in the lookup (which some might argue you're getting anyway when dereferencing pointers in memory).
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July 16, 2012, 08:14:18 AM
 #31

Easier said than done.

I'd need "seed addresses" for each cluster.
Create clusters out of all addresses where money from or to pirate was transmitted, [...]
Use these as "seed", even though you can't put a name tag on them.

For visualization it might be interesting to use http://code.google.com/p/gource/ maybe, or just gephi.

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dooglus
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July 18, 2012, 06:08:01 PM
 #32

Thanks for the code znort - I'm impressed by how fast it is.

I notice that 1113qRXdSA3Sdioib76mGSv9cfUYTY3xn is in a cluster of 191939 addresses.  It seems to be the combination of many different wallets.  Are you aware of a mixing service which would cause this to happen?

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July 18, 2012, 06:20:38 PM
 #33

Maybe MtGox, they allow imports + swipes of private keys, right?

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July 18, 2012, 06:43:57 PM
 #34

Based on the interesting comment below (found in this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=88486.0;all)

The following address is managed by GPUMAX.

  • 1PSf86KnLuzM7Ris5kDhTEZwooR3p2iyfV

-pirate

I went did a little blockchain detective work using this little
tool I wrote: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=88584.0;all

Outcome: the address above can be linked to a cluster
of 1046 other addresses that all provably belong to the
same person, and some of which have non-zero balances:

Code:
            11.00000000 75f71dd34188a350aba441ae001e289a7c66f627
           3285.30000000 76500990ce877a2a99856c149348f53e21cb5080
            100.00000000 7b40072b163779193f7ff68bc49141b534e79d64
           5000.00000000 945de4015b7a64ea7877ebbf5030acef21229473
              6.45096432 9d06959323eae4c28409a75671b40f38733a9b11
           2500.00000000 9ec8eb33cc6d419b1473a76983da2c1eee72ae47
           1300.00000000 a1ed53cf96bef7ee2e8ccf69b07c262f395a7ebb
             13.00000000 d13dadfde2c9f4d2e5a7eea12dc3bd2290db11d9
           7000.00000011 d4cd3d4c8403dadcc83dc08b161cd31271e965bc
           2900.00000000 d8b0f7ca8576145f3099857f041bf4c479fd8f8a
            237.50000000 f62cfd39776b3ba146aae9f2761fe74346c7f024
          10000.00000000 f8e18a8088b92842c4f8655ea0383d399620906b

What have we learned ? Not much, except for the fact that pirate
controls non trivial amounts of coins, at the very least BTC 32353.3 ...

That's on the order of USD 200k+ ...

And that's probably only the tip of the iceberg.



Which goes to prove, again, that bitcoins are not anonymous. They lack this one ingredient to truly be like "offline" money.
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July 18, 2012, 06:48:19 PM
 #35

Based on the interesting comment below (found in this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=88486.0;all)

The following address is managed by GPUMAX.

  • 1PSf86KnLuzM7Ris5kDhTEZwooR3p2iyfV

-pirate

I went did a little blockchain detective work using this little
tool I wrote: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=88584.0;all

Outcome: the address above can be linked to a cluster
of 1046 other addresses that all provably belong to the
same person, and some of which have non-zero balances:

Code:
            11.00000000 75f71dd34188a350aba441ae001e289a7c66f627
           3285.30000000 76500990ce877a2a99856c149348f53e21cb5080
            100.00000000 7b40072b163779193f7ff68bc49141b534e79d64
           5000.00000000 945de4015b7a64ea7877ebbf5030acef21229473
              6.45096432 9d06959323eae4c28409a75671b40f38733a9b11
           2500.00000000 9ec8eb33cc6d419b1473a76983da2c1eee72ae47
           1300.00000000 a1ed53cf96bef7ee2e8ccf69b07c262f395a7ebb
             13.00000000 d13dadfde2c9f4d2e5a7eea12dc3bd2290db11d9
           7000.00000011 d4cd3d4c8403dadcc83dc08b161cd31271e965bc
           2900.00000000 d8b0f7ca8576145f3099857f041bf4c479fd8f8a
            237.50000000 f62cfd39776b3ba146aae9f2761fe74346c7f024
          10000.00000000 f8e18a8088b92842c4f8655ea0383d399620906b

What have we learned ? Not much, except for the fact that pirate
controls non trivial amounts of coins, at the very least BTC 32353.3 ...

That's on the order of USD 200k+ ...

And that's probably only the tip of the iceberg.



Which goes to prove, again, that bitcoins are not anonymous. They lack this one ingredient to truly be like "offline" money.

Cash wouldn't be, if serial numbers were recorded.

Bitcoins can be the same way, if private keys are exchanged.
sadpandatech
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July 18, 2012, 06:50:53 PM
 #36


Which goes to prove, again, that bitcoins are not anonymous. They lack this one ingredient to truly be like "offline" money.

it proves only that it is not anonymous by default. All the ingredients are in place for you to have a 100% anon 'offline' exchange with bitcoin. It is up to the indivduals involved to set their lvl of anonymity.

The above quote portion  of "-pirate" owned addy proves what? It proves that some random internet pseudonym 'pirate', may or may not control that stated address. And that all the other addersses listed, that you have no idea who they belong to sent or received BTC that may or may not have came from or went to that stated address at some point....

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
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July 18, 2012, 07:09:01 PM
 #37

But anonymity is a feature that can actually be added to the
bitcoin client fairly easily (coin control), as well as provided
by mixing services.

There is no need to add anything to the bitcoin client.

The raw transaction API provides everything needed for full input/output control when building transactions.


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July 18, 2012, 07:35:05 PM
 #38

I notice that 1113qRXdSA3Sdioib76mGSv9cfUYTY3xn is in a cluster of 191939 addresses.  It seems to be the combination of many different wallets.  Are you aware of a mixing service which would cause this to happen?

Very many transactions per day, probably connected to an exchange or a bot,
or - indeed - a mixing service, but like I said, if the latter, there's a pretty
clear design flaw.

Final stats:

    transactions  = 819575
    received      = 45598656.77083801
    spent         = 45583929.40176545
    balance       =    14727.36907256

Wallet controls at least BTC 15K . Nice chunk of change.

So it's possible that this is MtGox's 'hot wallet'.

The reason I said I seemed to be many wallets mixed together is that it contains at least 5 of the addresses which receive interest from BS&T each week.  But it's quite possible that those 5 people have given MtGox deposit addresses as their BS&T interest payment address.

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July 18, 2012, 09:38:36 PM
 #39

But anonymity is a feature that can actually be added to the
bitcoin client fairly easily (coin control), as well as provided
by mixing services.

There is no need to add anything to the bitcoin client.

The raw transaction API provides everything needed for full input/output control when building transactions.


LOL, sure, there's just the fact that you need to have
a PhD in quantum physics to operate the damn thing.

I was talking about something that normal people can use,
like support for multiple, guaranteed to be segregated wallets.


LOL

Wouldn't be interesting if Pirate = Silk Road.  Pirate is kind of a fitting name for SR.

The nickname used by the SR admin is "Dread Pirate Roberts" lol

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July 18, 2012, 09:49:44 PM
 #40


Are you serious or joking?

100% serious. DPR they call him.

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