Cointerra is dead

[iCEBREAKER]

Are you a mason? Kiddy fiddler? Or just that dumb you would defend the royal families of the world as well as the Vatican? Lol

Seriously dude. There's 2 companies to trust in this industry and they are both chineese. Says all you need to now about the west! Greed! Just pure greed which makes these scammers. They had a plan from the start. Period. Anyone who as worked in large companies are polluted. I'm just watching a company fall to pieces in 6 months because of a new gm that game from amazon. Less than 6 months and he's killed it infact. Can't say who but they deal with mobiles in the UK and do work for all the companies over here. Destroyed from the inside.

Theirs a bigger picture that you refuse to see. I suppose you think Ross albricht should rot in jail and you miss the point that this is about your right to free speech/internet freedom etc etc.

So many blind people who don't want to get their heads out of the sand and see reality. Yes, its fucking ugly but at least its real! Knowing is the first step!

Masons?  Royals?  Chem trails?!?  The Bermuda Triangle?!?!   

 

Could you possibly be more unhinged?  I hope so, because that would be even more entertaining.

You're totally wrong about me.  Long before I supported Ross Ulbricht, I supported Marc Emery.  And I have direct shares of AM from the original offering.

CT did nothing wrong.  Sorry you can't accept that, and have to go full paranoid when confronted by the facts.

[noddy2000]

Are you a mason? Kiddy fiddler? Or just that dumb you would defend the royal families of the world as well as the Vatican? Lol

Seriously dude. There's 2 companies to trust in this industry and they are both chineese. Says all you need to now about the west! Greed! Just pure greed which makes these scammers. They had a plan from the start. Period. Anyone who as worked in large companies are polluted. I'm just watching a company fall to pieces in 6 months because of a new gm that game from amazon. Less than 6 months and he's killed it infact. Can't say who but they deal with mobiles in the UK and do work for all the companies over here. Destroyed from the inside.

Theirs a bigger picture that you refuse to see. I suppose you think Ross albricht should rot in jail and you miss the point that this is about your right to free speech/internet freedom etc etc.

So many blind people who don't want to get their heads out of the sand and see reality. Yes, its fucking ugly but at least its real! Knowing is the first step!

Masons?  Royals?  Chem trails?!?  The Bermuda Triangle?!?!   

 

Could you possibly be more unhinged?  I hope so, because that would be even more entertaining.

You're totally wrong about me.  Long before I supported Ross Ulbricht, I supported Marc Emery.  And I have direct shares of AM from the original offering.

CT did nothing wrong.  Sorry you can't accept that, and have to go full paranoid when confronted by the facts.

I just don't accept the public line that's been fed since... Well, forever it seems but goes at least back to the late 1800's for the current bullshkt.

As for ct, there product was on life support when it left the door! Even with delta fans! They fucked up. Ours (4 left of 6, 2 are totally dead!) Are in mineral oil instead of using air cooling now just so they stay alive! There fucking shocking! Even bfl wasn't that bad! Well, the monarchs seem shocking but who the hell brought off bfl after late 2012 deserve what they got for not doing their own research! Hell, even the knc titans and neptune cubes are a pain to keep running.

Fact is, they are selling faulty hardware that is not home friendly. But that was never their aim was it! Farms on the other hand!

[MichaelNZ]

Are you a mason? Kiddy fiddler? Or just that dumb you would defend the royal families of the world as well as the Vatican? Lol

Seriously dude. There's 2 companies to trust in this industry and they are both chineese. Says all you need to now about the west! Greed! Just pure greed which makes these scammers. They had a plan from the start. Period. Anyone who as worked in large companies are polluted. I'm just watching a company fall to pieces in 6 months because of a new gm that game from amazon. Less than 6 months and he's killed it infact. Can't say who but they deal with mobiles in the UK and do work for all the companies over here. Destroyed from the inside.

Theirs a bigger picture that you refuse to see. I suppose you think Ross albricht should rot in jail and you miss the point that this is about your right to free speech/internet freedom etc etc.

So many blind people who don't want to get their heads out of the sand and see reality. Yes, its fucking ugly but at least its real! Knowing is the first step!

Masons?  Royals?  Chem trails?!?  The Bermuda Triangle?!?!   

 

Could you possibly be more unhinged?  I hope so, because that would be even more entertaining.

You're totally wrong about me.  Long before I supported Ross Ulbricht, I supported Marc Emery.  And I have direct shares of AM from the original offering.

CT did nothing wrong.  Sorry you can't accept that, and have to go full paranoid when confronted by the facts.

I just don't accept the public line that's been fed since... Well, forever it seems but goes at least back to the late 1800's for the current bullshkt.

As for ct, there product was on life support when it left the door! Even with delta fans! They fucked up. Ours (4 left of 6, 2 are totally dead!) Are in mineral oil instead of using air cooling now just so they stay alive! There fucking shocking! Even bfl wasn't that bad! Well, the monarchs seem shocking but who the hell brought off bfl after late 2012 deserve what they got for not doing their own research! Hell, even the knc titans and neptune cubes are a pain to keep running.

Fact is, they are selling faulty hardware that is not home friendly. But that was never their aim was it! Farms on the other hand!

I agree with you on that, they were never designed to be used in a home environment. I believe that CT only sold product to us poor suckers to cover the development costs and to finance the cost of building their own server farms ...

[iCEBREAKER]

I believe that CT only sold product to us poor suckers to cover the development costs and to finance the cost of building their own server farms ...

Did you actually expect CT to cover the development costs, take all the risk, and only pass the profits on to you?

I believe that you are feeling sorry for yourself and making stuff up to justify wallowing in self-pity.

Because so few pre-orders were sold to consumers, CT's investors bore most of the R&D costs and server farms.

If the price of BTC had stayed at $1000 or shot to the moon, you would be singing their praises for the magic money printing machine they sold you.

These after-the-fact retroactive scam accusations against honest companies are getting really fucking old, and make those making them look like spoiled bratty sore losers with an awful case of entitlement syndrome.

[sidehack]

You know what else gets old? Childish insults and mudslinging (and before you retort, yes, I know the most recent reply contained neither but that seems to be a rarity). Say what you will about the good intentions of a business hoping for a bright future and high coin prices, anyone that skips out on a $50K hosting bill (among other things) while withholding mining revenues from paid customers is doing something very wrong. I'm sure their investors are saying the same thing.

Additionally, coin prices haven't been at $1000 in 13 months. I'm sure they weren't relying on prices being that high any time in the last year, what with there being an almost monotonic decrease in coin prices during that entire duration. It may be an outright scam, or it may be the result of poor planning, but what most people should be able to agree on is their financial behavior over the last few months is unacceptable and looks to be deliberately self-serving.

[iCEBREAKER]

You know what else gets old? Childish insults and mudslinging (and before you retort, yes, I know the most recent reply contained neither but that seems to be a rarity). Say what you will about the good intentions of a business hoping for a bright future and high coin prices, anyone that skips out on a $50K hosting bill (among other things) while withholding mining revenues from paid customers is doing something very wrong. I'm sure their investors are saying the same thing.

Additionally, coin prices haven't been at $1000 in 13 months. I'm sure they weren't relying on prices being that high any time in the last year, what with there being an almost monotonic decrease in coin prices during that entire duration. It may be an outright scam, or it may be the result of poor planning, but what most people should be able to agree on is their financial behavior over the last few months is unacceptable and looks to be deliberately self-serving.

The problem is that you don't know what you're talking about.

^That^ statement isn't childish mudslinging.  It's the fact that secured creditors have priority over other creditors, including your oddly precious hosting provider.

"Scam" or "poor planning" aren't the only parsimonious explanations.  Bad luck/business conditions is another simple and common reason high-tech start-ups fail.  Ask any bankruptcy lawyer and they will agree.

The insults are due to those who would be praising Cointerra if their mutual gamble had paid off only deciding to start whining and accusing because they are too immature to demonstrate good sportsmanship and accept a loss.

Hashfast was the first victim of such defamation, and I was the only person who stood up for the truth.  For this treasonous offense against the herd mind's popular opinion, I was pilloried (which I took as a badge of anti-sheeple honor).

Now that BTC is crashing farther, many other honest ASIC/cloudhashing vendors (formerly praised as All Stars, etc) are getting the same unfair treatment from the haters.  It's despicable.  You don't get to conveniently decide the casino is a scam after enjoying the gals/glitz/drinks/entertainment but then losing a long-shot gamble.  If you start loudly denouncing the casino as a scam only because you pressed your luck too far, they will bury you in the desert.  And rightly so.

"Boo-hoo, my extremely risky wager on magical money-printing machines didn't pay off.  They promised to make me a rich armchair anarchist.  I want my precious regulation-resistant Bitcoins back.  Caveat emptor? Never heard of it.  I'm calling my lawyer, because WHAAAAAAH there are regulations to protect me from my own cupidity."

-GMaxwell, PMorici, cedivad, Skye, Giray, etc.

[sidehack]

From what I understand, HashFast dug their own grave when they lied outright to customers about delivery dates - something about promising on-track up until the day they busted their deadline, and didn't mention to anyone that they were actually two or three months behind schedule (at best)? And also retconning customer terms to change refund policies?

For the record, I have never had anything invested in either Hashfast or Cointerra. I just think it's interesting that a business would continue operating for months on someone else's (unwitting, unvolunteered) dime without saying a word about it. Sure, the investors might have prior claim over customers. But you do not extract services from someone at a realtime rate knowing you will not be able to pay for those services. When you have debts from willing participants, you do not incur more debts from unwilling participants to cover them. You meet your contractual obligations, and the instant you know you will not be able to do so, you discuss the situation instead of fleecing. There were definitely things they could have done to avoid looking evil, and it appears they didn't attempt most of them. That's why people are shouting "scam".

Also for the record, you will never ever see me defending either casinos or cloudhashing operations for any reason. And people would probably hate you less if you were more polite instead of obnoxious or inflammatory. Make your point, make it well-formed and logical, and make it without namecalling. Insulting the immature means acting immature yourself, at which point you lose the higher ground.

[MichaelNZ]

From what I understand, HashFast dug their own grave when they lied outright to customers about delivery dates - something about promising on-track up until the day they busted their deadline, and didn't mention to anyone that they were actually two or three months behind schedule (at best)? And also retconning customer terms to change refund policies?

For the record, I have never had anything invested in either Hashfast or Cointerra. I just think it's interesting that a business would continue operating for months on someone else's (unwitting, unvolunteered) dime without saying a word about it. Sure, the investors might have prior claim over customers. But you do not extract services from someone at a realtime rate knowing you will not be able to pay for those services. When you have debts from willing participants, you do not incur more debts from unwilling participants to cover them. You meet your contractual obligations, and the instant you know you will not be able to do so, you discuss the situation instead of fleecing. There were definitely things they could have done to avoid looking evil, and it appears they didn't attempt most of them. That's why people are shouting "scam".

Also for the record, you will never ever see me defending either casinos or cloudhashing operations for any reason. And people would probably hate you less if you were more polite instead of obnoxious or inflammatory. Make your point, make it well-formed and logical, and make it without namecalling. Insulting the immature means acting immature yourself, at which point you lose the higher ground.

Here here ... pull your horns in icebreaker and play nicely or I'll just lock the topic and you can jog on.

[iCEBREAKER]

From what I understand, HashFast dug their own grave when they lied outright to customers about delivery dates - something about promising on-track up until the day they busted their deadline, and didn't mention to anyone that they were actually two or three months behind schedule (at best)? And also retconning customer terms to change refund policies?

For the record, I have never had anything invested in either Hashfast or Cointerra. I just think it's interesting that a business would continue operating for months on someone else's (unwitting, unvolunteered) dime without saying a word about it. Sure, the investors might have prior claim over customers. But you do not extract services from someone at a realtime rate knowing you will not be able to pay for those services. When you have debts from willing participants, you do not incur more debts from unwilling participants to cover them. You meet your contractual obligations, and the instant you know you will not be able to do so, you discuss the situation instead of fleecing. There were definitely things they could have done to avoid looking evil, and it appears they didn't attempt most of them. That's why people are shouting "scam".

Also for the record, you will never ever see me defending either casinos or cloudhashing operations for any reason. And people would probably hate you less if you were more polite instead of obnoxious or inflammatory. Make your point, make it well-formed and logical, and make it without namecalling. Insulting the immature means acting immature yourself, at which point you lose the higher ground.

What are you, my debate coach?   I'll make my points as I see fit, TYVM.  If I make the discussion less dry by peppering it with banter, that is of educational benefit to readers who might not otherwise follow a humorless boring conversation.  If you strenuously object to a little verbal jousting, fuck off and put me on ignore instead of whining pedantically about it.   

Missing a delivery date isn't the same as lying.  Cointerra and many almost all other ASIC vendors have missed anticipated delivery dates.  Designing and building the chips and board is hard, as is writing firmware and drivers, dealing with regulation/logistics/etc.  So it would be foolish to take such dates as gospel deadlines.

Businesses operate on credit all the time.  Credit lubricates the economy and makes the world go around.  You must be new to this universe to not already be aware of such common knowledge.  Cointerra, etc. did not know they would "not be able to pay" for services rendered.  That depended on numerous unforeseeable random factors, like finding more investment and/or customers, the price of Bitcoin, network difficulty, etc.

These shopworn, long-debunked false premises annoy me, because I am fairly certain they are not made in good faith but rather to support the popular defamatory foregone conclusions of dishonesty and criminal motives.

Now that I've explained the source of my hostility and vehemence, let's hope you can understand (if not forgive and henceforth applaud) it.   

play nicely or I'll just lock the topic

You are new here, Mr. Newbie.  This is BTCT.  We thrive on/adore drama, and thus appreciate straightforward, honest rough and tumble.  If you can't stand the heat, GTFO the kitchen.

When sidehack insults our intelligence with specious ignorance, he may expect to experience retaliatory insults.  I am not a punching bag, and always hit back harder than the other guy when I know I'm right.  That's why the 'ZOMG HashFast/Cointerra/100TH/iCEDRILL WAS A SCAM ALL ALONG!!!111!' sheeple absolutely despise me.   

Turnabout is fair play.  Go ahead, lock the thread if your constitution is too delicate for anything but patronizing namby-pamby gladhandling.  Frankly, my dear, I don't GAS.   

[sidehack]

Missing a delivery date isn't the same as lying.  Cointerra and many almost all other ASIC vendors have missed anticipated delivery dates.  Designing and building the chips and board is hard, as is writing firmware and drivers, dealing with regulation/logistics/etc.  So it would be foolish to take such dates as gospel deadlines.

Businesses operate on credit all the time.  Credit lubricates the economy and makes the world go around.  You must be new to this universe to not already be aware of such common knowledge.  Cointerra, etc. did not know they would "not be able to pay" for services rendered.  That depended on numerous unforeseeable random factors, like finding more investment and/or customers, the price of Bitcoin, network difficulty, etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I just remember reading timelines after the fact but Hashfast posted numerous times leading right up to their anticipated ship date that everything was on schedule, when they hadn't actually received chips yet, and didn't have deployable working hardware until two months after the original ship date? I'm fairly certain telling someone you'll deliver a product on X date, and on day X-1 continuing to assure people you'll deliver on X date, when you know for certain that some of the parts you need to complete the task don't even exist yet, constitutes lying. Yes, everyone misses ship dates. Blowing a deadline by a month right now in bitcoin is considered "pretty good". But not letting people know you'll miss the deadline when you know pretty clearly that you will miss the deadline, and insisting on what you know to be impossible, is lying. If my information about their conduct leading up to the blown deadline is wrong (which is possible, memory being fallible) please correct it.

And yes, businesses operate on credit all the time. Mine doesn't, but that's because I'm stubborn about borrowing and we always pay our bills. The thing about credit, though, is it really helps to ask for it up front, instead of expecting to be allowed it by default. When you skip out on the bill for the second month in a row, you probably knew ahead of time that you couldn't pay it. When a bill comes due and you check the bank and you don't have that much money, you talk to the person you owe and work out terms. You don't wait for another month to roll over and continue to accrue debt for services rendered - services you draw a revenue stream from, which goes who knows where - without trying to work it out with the renderer. Back debt and credit are basically the same thing, sure, but the main difference in this case is prior permission. You don't buy a car and skip monthly payments using "credit with the dealer" as an excuse. You don't hire a worker at a contract wage and then not cut him a paycheck come Friday because "credit" with no warning or explanation. Cointerra may not be overt scammers, might be unwitting victims of bad luck and a bad market may be more to blame than poor planning. All that's semantic, internal stuff to figure out. But whatever caused the downturn, somewhere along the line they started looking like overt bastards from an outside perspective. That's the problem. That's what people don't like.

[MichaelNZ]

I think you are singularly the most thoroughly offensive person it has been my displeasure to encounter in this forum.

I could get offensive in return and suggest that you get some weird twisted psycho-sexual stimulation off deliberately offending people online ... This is typical behavior from obese reasonably intelligent nerds with zero real world interaction that get off whacking the winky at the greatness of their offensiveness. Typically these types of people live their lives in darkened rooms in front of a multi-screen gamer setups ... oh, and they smell too.

But I wont do that, because that would lower me to your depths and I'd rather not do that thanks very much.
No one is going to deny you the the chance to express your opinions, but why do you need to be so goddam offensive and personally offensive about it too. If you wound the attack back a notch of two you would find people are more likely to take what you have to say seriously instead of lashing out because you've chosen to be directly offensive.
you mention debate ... have you ever debated in a real world properly moderated forum ?

[iCEBREAKER]

Missing a delivery date isn't the same as lying.  Cointerra and many almost all other ASIC vendors have missed anticipated delivery dates.  Designing and building the chips and board is hard, as is writing firmware and drivers, dealing with regulation/logistics/etc.  So it would be foolish to take such dates as gospel deadlines.

Businesses operate on credit all the time.  Credit lubricates the economy and makes the world go around.  You must be new to this universe to not already be aware of such common knowledge.  Cointerra, etc. did not know they would "not be able to pay" for services rendered.  That depended on numerous unforeseeable random factors, like finding more investment and/or customers, the price of Bitcoin, network difficulty, etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I just remember reading timelines after the fact but Hashfast posted numerous times leading right up to their anticipated ship date that everything was on schedule, when they hadn't actually received chips yet, and didn't have deployable working hardware until two months after the original ship date? I'm fairly certain telling someone you'll deliver a product on X date, and on day X-1 continuing to assure people you'll deliver on X date, when you know for certain that some of the parts you need to complete the task don't even exist yet, constitutes lying. Yes, everyone misses ship dates. Blowing a deadline by a month right now in bitcoin is considered "pretty good". But not letting people know you'll miss the deadline when you know pretty clearly that you will miss the deadline, and insisting on what you know to be impossible, is lying. If my information about their conduct leading up to the blown deadline is wrong (which is possible, memory being fallible) please correct it.

And yes, businesses operate on credit all the time. Mine doesn't, but that's because I'm stubborn about borrowing and we always pay our bills. The thing about credit, though, is it really helps to ask for it up front, instead of expecting to be allowed it by default. When you skip out on the bill for the second month in a row, you probably knew ahead of time that you couldn't pay it. When a bill comes due and you check the bank and you don't have that much money, you talk to the person you owe and work out terms. You don't wait for another month to roll over and continue to accrue debt for services rendered - services you draw a revenue stream from, which goes who knows where - without trying to work it out with the renderer. Back debt and credit are basically the same thing, sure, but the main difference in this case is prior permission. You don't buy a car and skip monthly payments using "credit with the dealer" as an excuse. You don't hire a worker at a contract wage and then not cut him a paycheck come Friday because "credit" with no warning or explanation. Cointerra may not be overt scammers, might be unwitting victims of bad luck and a bad market may be more to blame than poor planning. All that's semantic, internal stuff to figure out. But whatever caused the downturn, somewhere along the line they started looking like overt bastards from an outside perspective. That's the problem. That's what people don't like.

My point is that most ASIC vendors have been late and tardiness is no indication of malfeasance, so please don't derail this thread with Yet Another^TM voyage into ancient HF history.

If you can get by without credit, good for you.  But you are not making bleeding-edge BTC mining ASICS.  So don't pat yourself on the back too hard.  And equating a corporation (which provides hosting or whatever) to an individual "worker at contract wage" is not a metaphor I find apt, much less a persuasive basis for your conclusion.  

My point was that CT, etc. did not "know" ahead of time that they wouldn't be able to find more investment/customers or benefit from higher BTC prices/lower difficulty.  They were supposed to give it everything they could and go for broke.  That was their job and their investors could sue them if they did anything less than max out their credit line in the course of their best efforts to achive a turnaround.  Their vendors can write off the losses.  That happens all the time and I'm beyond tired of people making it into a moral/ethical issue.  In business you win some and lose some.  It's not The Devil vs. Jesus FFS.  Please leave the Puritan 'neither a lender nor borrower be' BS in Sunday School.  Without credit and risk, economic/technological development goes Dark Ages (again).

CT, etc.'s job was to make best efforts to create a viable/profitable firm, not appease prejudiced outsiders (many of who are irredeemable trolls or shills for the competition).

Whether or not CT, etc. scammed anyone is a matter for the legal system (where the presumption is of innocence), not the defamatory court of public opinion, to decide.

Caveat emptor is a thing.  Due diligence is an obligation.  When an investment goes sour, it's asinine to cast about for scapegoats to absolve oneself of these responsibilities.  That the problem with the 'ZOMG I JUST SUDDENLY REALIZED HASHFAST/ICEDRILL/100TH/COINTERRA/KNC WAS A SCAM ALL ALONG' crowd.  That why those people don't like it when I remind them we voluntarily gave them our BTC.

[sidehack]

As a brief follow-up before turning in for the night -

I mentioned Hashfast because you first mentioned Hashfast, as someone else you vehemently defended when their crap hit the fan as well. As I have said, if I have the facts about them wrong please correct me, else it doesn't lend much to your credibility.

Additionally, "neither a borrower nor a lender be" was Shakespeare, not Jesus. Specifically, Polonius' long-winded ("as brevity is the soul of wit, I will be brief") advice to his son in "Hamlet", I believe the first act. Just a matter of correctness, not to detract from the point itself. My complaint is not about owing the investors or creditors, but the people they were extracting services from or rendering services to in the course of running the business. It's inarguably irresponsible (or immature) to not pay your bills and still expect things to keep running smoothly. And when you do so right up until the moment the dam breaks, it looks even worse from the outside.

Regarding worker vs corporation metaphor, the metaphor holds so long as the understanding is this: you contract a service and then fail to pay for it, repeatedly, while still drawing benefits from the rendering of said service. That's not credit, that's cheating. Could the host have cut them off sooner? Yes. Should they have? Probably. But by not addressing the issue of being flat broke with anyone, while continuing to pull in mining revenue as they build up additional debt both to the hosting company and with hosted-mining customers, until well after the "point of no return" toward bankruptcy, they lose all credibility they might still have had with customers. Basically, it looks a lot like they decided to try their luck mining for free and pocketing some of the coin for a while, and until they can prove that's not what happened (or at the very least, that it wasn't premeditated), people will continue to hate them. Courts assume innocence until proven guilty, but spurned customers and unpaid service providers usually don't, especially when no reasonable explanation is given.
So basically, if you're about to rip someone off because it's the only choice you have left, at least be transparent about it.

[LordPaco]

I think the major screwup that Cointerra did was their decision to mine for themselves, rather than to sell hardware and allow their customers to take on the mining risk. The proof of this can be seen by their absurdly high miner prices over the summer. Had they not been so greedy and gone all long shot BTC to da moon, sold their hardware instead of build now completely unprofitable farms, they might have enough left over for round two. Hindsight is 20/20, but after having a few offers rejected by Cointerra over the summer for a few miner machines- fair offers IMO but apparently not good enough or bulky enough for them to bother. If anyone took the long shot bet here is by some higher ups at Cointerra that steer the ship to get the profit.

BTW I have one terraminer IV that still runs great and has run great sense delivery of April 2, 2014. April order, so you could say I even got mine on time. I'm sure my one terraminer paid for 3 at their farm, and they are worse off because of that alone. Greed killed this goose, it wasn't their customers.

[sidehack]

Also, Icebreaker, I have no problem agreeing with you that most people are stupid, and a lot of people make bad decisions, and most of them would rather spend all day ascribing blame than work to fix it and move forward. In America at least, profiting maximally from minimal effort and taking to the woodshed any available scapegoat when things don't work perfectly for you is almost mandatory, and I hate that about our culture. I just wish people in the bitcoin industry would stop making it so easy to do.

[noddy2000]

From what I understand, HashFast dug their own grave when they lied outright to customers about delivery dates - something about promising on-track up until the day they busted their deadline, and didn't mention to anyone that they were actually two or three months behind schedule (at best)? And also retconning customer terms to change refund policies?

For the record, I have never had anything invested in either Hashfast or Cointerra. I just think it's interesting that a business would continue operating for months on someone else's (unwitting, unvolunteered) dime without saying a word about it. Sure, the investors might have prior claim over customers. But you do not extract services from someone at a realtime rate knowing you will not be able to pay for those services. When you have debts from willing participants, you do not incur more debts from unwilling participants to cover them. You meet your contractual obligations, and the instant you know you will not be able to do so, you discuss the situation instead of fleecing. There were definitely things they could have done to avoid looking evil, and it appears they didn't attempt most of them. That's why people are shouting "scam".

Also for the record, you will never ever see me defending either casinos or cloudhashing operations for any reason. And people would probably hate you less if you were more polite instead of obnoxious or inflammatory. Make your point, make it well-formed and logical, and make it without namecalling. Insulting the immature means acting immature yourself, at which point you lose the higher ground.

What are you, my debate coach?   I'll make my points as I see fit, TYVM.  If I make the discussion less dry by peppering it with banter, that is of educational benefit to readers who might not otherwise follow a humorless boring conversation.  If you strenuously object to a little verbal jousting, fuck off and put me on ignore instead of whining pedantically about it.   

Missing a delivery date isn't the same as lying.  Cointerra and many almost all other ASIC vendors have missed anticipated delivery dates.  Designing and building the chips and board is hard, as is writing firmware and drivers, dealing with regulation/logistics/etc.  So it would be foolish to take such dates as gospel deadlines.

Businesses operate on credit all the time.  Credit lubricates the economy and makes the world go around.  You must be new to this universe to not already be aware of such common knowledge.  Cointerra, etc. did not know they would "not be able to pay" for services rendered.  That depended on numerous unforeseeable random factors, like finding more investment and/or customers, the price of Bitcoin, network difficulty, etc.

These shopworn, long-debunked false premises annoy me, because I am fairly certain they are not made in good faith but rather to support the popular defamatory foregone conclusions of dishonesty and criminal motives.

Now that I've explained the source of my hostility and vehemence, let's hope you can understand (if not forgive and henceforth applaud) it.   

play nicely or I'll just lock the topic

You are new here, Mr. Newbie.  This is BTCT.  We thrive on/adore drama, and thus appreciate straightforward, honest rough and tumble.  If you can't stand the heat, GTFO the kitchen.

When sidehack insults our intelligence with specious ignorance, he may expect to experience retaliatory insults.  I am not a punching bag, and always hit back harder than the other guy when I know I'm right.  That's why the 'ZOMG HashFast/Cointerra/100TH/iCEDRILL WAS A SCAM ALL ALONG!!!111!' sheeple absolutely despise me.   

Turnabout is fair play.  Go ahead, lock the thread if your constitution is too delicate for anything but patronizing namby-pamby gladhandling.  Frankly, my dear, I don't GAS.   

Lying about delivery dates when you know otherwise is! All companies have done that (bar sponddodles and bitmain I think). So yes, they are liars!

The fact is that they were always going screw average joe over if the coin stayed at the highs of 600-1000 and this is true with all these cowboy asic makers.

People are building centralised systems on top of the most powerful decentralised system we've ever had and wonder why its failing!

Just ignorance and greed that rules this word powered by fear! Period. No love left!

[iCEBREAKER]

Lying about delivery dates when you know otherwise is! All companies have done that (bar sponddodles and bitmain I think). So yes, they are liars!

The fact is that they were always going screw average joe over if the coin stayed at the highs of 600-1000 and this is true with all these cowboy asic makers.

People are building centralised systems on top of the most powerful decentralised system we've ever had and wonder why its failing!

Just ignorance and greed that rules this word powered by fear! Period. No love left!

LOL, stay crazy bro.  It's funny!   

[noddy2000]

Lying about delivery dates when you know otherwise is! All companies have done that (bar sponddodles and bitmain I think). So yes, they are liars!

The fact is that they were always going screw average joe over if the coin stayed at the highs of 600-1000 and this is true with all these cowboy asic makers.

People are building centralised systems on top of the most powerful decentralised system we've ever had and wonder why its failing!

Just ignorance and greed that rules this word powered by fear! Period. No love left!

LOL, stay crazy bro.  It's funny!  

So you think a man in a cave 4000 miles away on a dialisis machine did 9/11 do you (who was friends with the bush family)? So you think 1 man fired a rifle 3 times in less than 10 seconds with a rifle that's proven to be impossible? So you think Hitler rebuilt Germany all on his own with no help from no one (look up Hitler project? So you think the titanic sank and the olyimpica sailed on for another 24 years unhindered and it wasn't an insurance job by no other than JP Morgan? Fact is, if there's a film about it, its a cover up for reprogramming you!

Shit dude, you lost your critical thinking! Anyone who uses tinfoil hat/ conspiracy theorist loses all credibility as they prefer to label and put people in boxes rather than have a critical thinking conversation. The joke is, conspiracy theory is the conspiracy! Anyone who as a brain that's used for its intended purpose, critical thinking, instead of filling it with bullshit knows this!

If you got an attention span longer than a goldfish (yes, I know they have a memory longer than 2 seconds but you get the point!), watch this..... Then think hard about it. Then go and look at multiple sources, look up well documented writings if reading is your preferred method and use your brain! Look around you and analyse what you see and then come back and have a discussion with me if you really want some credibility from people who are not zombies/powered by greed etc etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1Qt6a-vaNM

Remember, even in a minority of 1, the truth is still the truth! I never let schooling get in the way of my education! Yourself?

And if you want to know how easy it is to control people, just watch this! I use these tactics to wake people up in real life (its nye impossible to do this online without having human contact as text does not relay the intended projection). Were all human resources! Used and abused by unempathetic pathological peodo's no less. Keeping your head in the sand makes you apart of the problem!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pCigAw2-0g

And if you can't spend the time to look at what I'm trying to show you, keep me in that imaginary box that's been programmed into you and keep being a failure of a decent human being. No skin off my nose! Can't save everyone, that's just how it is unfortunitly. Your obviously powered by greed and miss the point of the Bitcoin block chain! Its not even a currency lol. Take some lessons from amir taki or something!

Can't say I don't try! Joke is, all this is so fucking obvious!

[MichaelNZ]

Cointerra's website has been taken down and replaced with a notice that say's they've applied for chapter 7 bankruptcy protection ... I don't live in CONUS so have no idea what that means, perhaps some kind hearted CONUSian will explain it for the benefit of us aliens.

http://cointerra.com/ if you want to go see for yourself

[Dilemma]

i never use this site
bu it's sad for bitcoin comunity
every died invest area is bad news for us..