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Author Topic: Bitstamp's stolen BTC on the move  (Read 4760 times)
logBIT
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January 08, 2015, 05:43:30 PM
 #61

In the real (non virtual) world receiving stolen goods is a crime whether you know the goods are stolen or not, (the goods in question can be banknotes) - if bitcoin can be classified as goods and if the coins can be traced back through the blockchain to the point where they were stolen then they could quite legally be subject to seizure and returned to their original owner in the UK. To avoid this happening to unsuspecting individuals they would need to be temporarily marked until such time until they were received by the original owner when such mark could be removed.

That is quite interesting, specifically when in comparison to the US. Here, possession/receiving stolen goods is a burden of proof placed on the state before any charges can be brought against the receiver who unknowingly received the stolen goods.

Of course, the unaware citizen must truly be unaware (able to defense his position if called upon in court), but the mere possession of stolen property (given it truly is) is not technically illegal if the one who possesses it did not know.

Can a US court take stolen property off a citizen who paid for it unaware it was stolen?
B.A.S.
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January 08, 2015, 06:37:48 PM
 #62

In the real (non virtual) world receiving stolen goods is a crime whether you know the goods are stolen or not, (the goods in question can be banknotes) - if bitcoin can be classified as goods and if the coins can be traced back through the blockchain to the point where they were stolen then they could quite legally be subject to seizure and returned to their original owner in the UK. To avoid this happening to unsuspecting individuals they would need to be temporarily marked until such time until they were received by the original owner when such mark could be removed.

That is quite interesting, specifically when in comparison to the US. Here, possession/receiving stolen goods is a burden of proof placed on the state before any charges can be brought against the receiver who unknowingly received the stolen goods.

Of course, the unaware citizen must truly be unaware (able to defense his position if called upon in court), but the mere possession of stolen property (given it truly is) is not technically illegal if the one who possesses it did not know.

Can a US court take stolen property off a citizen who paid for it unaware it was stolen?

Yes, provided the court can prove it's stolen.
dinofelis
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January 08, 2015, 07:55:14 PM
 #63


That is quite interesting, specifically when in comparison to the US. Here, possession/receiving stolen goods is a burden of proof placed on the state before any charges can be brought against the receiver who unknowingly received the stolen goods.

Of course, the unaware citizen must truly be unaware (able to defense his position if called upon in court), but the mere possession of stolen property (given it truly is) is not technically illegal if the one who possesses it did not know.

This is so too in most European countries.  If you can demonstrate good faith in acquiring the goods (not crazily underpriced, no suspicious market, ....) so that any honest citizen couldn't reasonably suspect the goods to be stolen, then you having in possession stolen goods is not a crime by itself.  However, the stolen goods can be seized and you will not get any compensation.

However, you are punishable if you could reasonably have some doubts about the legal origin of the goods.  If you can buy a brand-new top-class Mercedes for 5000 Euro from a street dealer, then you should be suspicious.  You will not be able to prove "good faith" in that case, and you will be charged with healing.
If you buy however, say, a second-hand car 10% under the market price in a second hand car garage, and all the paper work is done normally, then you will get away with 'good faith'.   10% can still be considered simply "a good deal" and not an outrageously low price that should make you suspicious.  But if the car was stolen, it will be seized and you've lost your money.
onemorebtc
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January 08, 2015, 08:32:10 PM
 #64


This is so too in most European countries.  If you can demonstrate good faith in acquiring the goods (not crazily underpriced, no suspicious market, ....) so that any honest citizen couldn't reasonably suspect the goods to be stolen, then you having in possession stolen goods is not a crime by itself.  However, the stolen goods can be seized and you will not get any compensation.


not exactly true: of course you have a title and are able to get your money back from your seller - but how you do that is your problem

this is the big difference between commoditites and currencies...

transfer 3 onemorebtc.k1024.de 1
skeletonbit
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January 09, 2015, 03:07:47 AM
 #65

on this news Bitstamp i would expect to induce sale panic , among those looking to get out
Jammalan the Prophet
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January 09, 2015, 04:59:12 AM
 #66

on this news Bitstamp i would expect to induce sale panic , among those looking to get out

sale on what?Huh?? on a closed website?
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