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goosoodude
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January 09, 2015, 10:31:04 PM |
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is one of the greatest things about bitcoins. The stolen coins can be tracked and the spending of them will lead them back to the thief.
Thats something that can definitely not be done with fiat.
They can be broken up in smaller transactions and mixed. It will take time and will incur a lot of fees but its possible to get away cleanly. |
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Remember that Bitcoin is still beta software. Don't put all of your money into BTC!
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goosoodude
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January 09, 2015, 10:58:57 PM |
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is one of the greatest things about bitcoins. The stolen coins can be tracked and the spending of them will lead them back to the thief.
Thats something that can definitely not be done with fiat.
Not in all cases. They can always be passed through a mixer and be sent to random addresses. If they hit an exchange, then becomes harder to trace. They would be stupid to send to an exchange. Exchange owners have to show they are responsible and any good one will immediately lock the funds. |
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jwcastle
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January 09, 2015, 11:06:06 PM |
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Merchants are probably not going to help anyone in recovering stolen cons. Let's say I stole a bunch of bitcoins and bought a nice 70" LCD HDTV from Newegg (value of $3000 USD) Newegg shipped it to me and they know who I am. Three weeks later some guy in Japan tracked the transaction/address and contacts Newegg to get his stolen bitcoins back. What is the incentive for Newegg to do anything at all? If they do all the work how will Newegg benefit from it? If it is proven that I did buy the HDTV with stolen bitcoins, Newegg has to give the bitcoins back to the owner, and then they have to go through more trouble to get their HDTV back or sue me for the $3000 USD value. Why would any merchant go through the headaches and lose money to help someone in another country? If they sit and do nothing, their bitcoins gets exchanged and they get their money for the products they sold. I think at some point an address can be tied to a person Some examples would be:
Pay for lunch with BTC - Cameras/Witnesses
Trading BTC for fiat - Identity is known for Wire Transfers
Buying a TV through NewEgg - Name/Shipping Address
Selling Coins to People - WU has cameras, Loading cards gives places you spent at which have cameras not to mention phone numbers and IP addresses
Pretty much anything that involves you getting a good or a physical service you can be identified.
The only thing I can think of you can do with BTC that is anonymous is trade between coins, make more BTC, and look at them.
Citizens might have a hard time tracking down a person, but law enforcement with warrants and all their other goodies could find people easy enough.
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arieq
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January 09, 2015, 11:27:23 PM |
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The fact that bitcoin theft happened means that hackers think bitcoin is valuable. Nobody robs banks anymore because fiat is worthless. Thieves only rob bitcoin because it is one of the most valuable asset in the world
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jbreher
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 3038
Merit: 1660
lose: unfind ... loose: untight
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January 10, 2015, 12:19:48 AM |
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In fact, I don't know if anyone has ever been convicted for stealing coins?
Pirate was successfully prosecuted by the feds for the BTCST saga - which at its heart is about stealing bitcoin. That was a civil prosecution - so far. He has since been indicted on criminal charges. |
Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.
I've been convicted of heresy. Convicted by a mere known extortionist. Read my Trust for details.
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dKingston
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January 10, 2015, 12:26:58 AM |
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i've had my bitcoins stolen from hackers and phishing numerous times and never once got them back :-(
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tss
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January 10, 2015, 07:06:36 AM |
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is one of the greatest things about bitcoins. The stolen coins can be tracked and the spending of them will lead them back to the thief.
Thats something that can definitely not be done with fiat.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is one of the greatest things about bitcoins. The stolen coins can be tracked and the spending of them will not lead them back to the thief. Thats something that can definitely be done with fiat. |
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sethminer14
Member
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Activity: 98
Merit: 10
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January 10, 2015, 07:31:10 AM |
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Mixing and exchanges basically wash em up and make them super hard to find.
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botany
Legendary
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Activity: 1582
Merit: 1064
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January 11, 2015, 06:31:39 PM |
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In fact, I don't know if anyone has ever been convicted for stealing coins?
Pirate was successfully prosecuted by the feds for the BTCST saga - which at its heart is about stealing bitcoin. That was a civil prosecution - so far. He has since been indicted on criminal charges. I guess RodeoX should have specified stealing coins through security breaches. People gave their bitcoins to Pirate. |
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jbreher
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 3038
Merit: 1660
lose: unfind ... loose: untight
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January 11, 2015, 08:25:36 PM |
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In fact, I don't know if anyone has ever been convicted for stealing coins?
Pirate was successfully prosecuted by the feds for the BTCST saga - which at its heart is about stealing bitcoin. That was a civil prosecution - so far. He has since been indicted on criminal charges. I guess RodeoX should have specified stealing coins through security breaches. People gave their bitcoins to Pirate. Under fraudulent circumstances, yes. If you want to play word games and tell me that such is not stealing, I'm not playing along. From a moral standpoint, I see absolutely no difference. |
Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.
I've been convicted of heresy. Convicted by a mere known extortionist. Read my Trust for details.
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Amph
Legendary
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Activity: 3206
Merit: 1069
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January 11, 2015, 09:14:42 PM |
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no, too difficult, but you can retrieve the starting address, but you would never know who used it
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arvindr
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January 11, 2015, 09:16:13 PM |
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is one of the greatest things about bitcoins. The stolen coins can be tracked and the spending of them will lead them back to the thief.
Thats something that can definitely not be done with fiat.
I think you can always use a service like bitmixer to make them untraceable. |
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freebit13
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January 11, 2015, 09:18:55 PM |
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Nope, one of the greatest things about bitcoin is FUNGIBILITY!
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Decentralize EVERYTHING!
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pawel7777
Legendary
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Activity: 2436
Merit: 1566
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January 11, 2015, 09:48:53 PM |
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If the thief has managed to sell the stolen coins anonymously, there will be no way to track him down. The buyer of the stolen Bitcoins can't be made responsible for the theft (Though I might be checking where these BTC were coming from, before I'd buy them)
That depends on your jurisdiction and law enforcers' approach. If bitcoin is an asset, then buyer is likely to have his newly bought bitcoin seized. Just like when you unknowingly buy a stolen car. |
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Velkro
Legendary
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Activity: 2296
Merit: 1014
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January 11, 2015, 09:51:29 PM |
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is one of the greatest things about bitcoins. The stolen coins can be tracked and the spending of them will lead them back to the thief.
Thats something that can definitely not be done with fiat.
as someone mentioned here, you will never know if next address is owned by thief or new person which bought coins from him and didn't know they were stolen |
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Aemon
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January 12, 2015, 04:23:11 PM |
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Slightly off topic, but close none the less. Is there a way to tell if 1 address is owned by the same wallet at all?
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elephantas1
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January 12, 2015, 05:50:52 PM |
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Slightly off topic, but close none the less. Is there a way to tell if 1 address is owned by the same wallet at all?
i dont think so if you arent owner of it because it doesnt give any specific info about it |
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arlekyn13
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January 12, 2015, 06:34:50 PM |
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Well, if I'd be offered to buy some of the stolen BTC's from Bitstamp (for example) at half the current market price through a totally anonymous method such as "cash in the mail" or whatever method gives the most anonymity (provided I'd trust the seller to send the btc or use trusted escrow services), even if I'd know 100% that those btc's are the stolen ones, I'd buy them. And I bet I'm not the only one without a high moral stance... I'm human after all, greed is part of my nature!
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1CmrswU7JYpi9WNC8EHWCV3aam1FJsW2Zu - to show appreciation for my work
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PolarPoint
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January 12, 2015, 06:50:20 PM |
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Slightly off topic, but close none the less. Is there a way to tell if 1 address is owned by the same wallet at all?
If you create a transaction with inputs from 2 addresses, the 2 addresses must be owned by the same person. |
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slacknation
Member
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Activity: 93
Merit: 10
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January 12, 2015, 06:52:02 PM |
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i think OP is looking for a cryptocurrency owned by someone. e.g. the government issues a DPOS cryptocurrency so they have authority over all transactions but at the same time the ledger is public.
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