[Open] 6.4 BTC loan, collateral/escrow, monthly interest, ~5 months.

[Honeypot]

Well I would normally provide that level of privacy to you, however ethically, I feel the need to disclose that kind of information because I feel that you are being somewhat misleading in your negotiations. I don't think failing to disclose the fact that the value you are giving your collateral is at least 10% more then the value currently given to it on exchanges is being transparent nor is a way to conduct business.

As I have explained (and I think I disclosed fully to all interested parties what the collateral is and what the monthly avg is), we must use the monthly avg in a volatile crypto currency market to decide the appropriate value for the deal. I have certainly not with held any details to those who request them because they are interested, and the volatility means it really doesn't make sense to go down for you to gain more collateral for the loan, while the other way is 'unethical'. Hence, the compromise at the stated terms of taking a monthly avg for the value of the collateral and loan amount being discussed.

No one who is interested and PM's me is not told about what value I use to calculate the collateral with, and the reason for such, which I find to be fair. As I mentioned, in the past negotiations have made parties agree to terms that are acceptable to both, and in many cases it brought the collateral to a more agreeable amount as we assessed each other's position and found a compromise. This is a negotiation phase, and that's how deals are made - middle ground that both parties can agree on from their respective starting points. My starting point is the monthly avg for the collateral - and we, as I repeatedly mentioned, negotiate to find a compromise that is within acceptable bounds for each of us.

As I said, 'All terms are up for negotiations' - as in the OP. Once again, I understand your concern, but I do not believe I have with held any information, some even irrelevant, to our negotiations. I would ask you to retract such a claim because it simple does not match the facts - and I believe you are giving an unqualified statement as to what you deem 'unethical' vs. 'simple disadvantageous'. I have not with held any kind of information from you or any other interested parties when they contacted me (certainly no one will have any trouble figuring out the price avg for the collateral anyway with loan amount offered vs. recent market movements).

Once again, I would ask that you correct your statement since I have disclosed everything in the negotiations. If you want to further negotiate the appropriate loan vs collateral, feel free to message me and we can work out a deal we both find acceptable

[1715106553]

1715106553

[1715106553]

1715106553

[ScryptAsic]

Also, you can say my collateral is my reputation not only on btc talk forum trading reputation, but also my crypto reputation in general (irc, twitter, other forums etc) since people i work with know my forum handle. I would like to state this just to make clear what I am proposing.

From your PM:

I do not currently keep a twitter account.

Why are you claiming your reputation is partially from your twitter account if you don't even have a twitter account?

As I have explained (and I think I disclosed fully to all interested parties what the collateral is and what the monthly avg is), we must use the monthly avg in a volatile crypto currency market to decide the appropriate value for the deal.

Says you. Most of the time, from every other deal that I have seen on this forum the current value of the altcoin is used. Can you prove an example of when any other person has ever even offered to use a monthly average of the value of their altcoin?

I have certainly not with held any details to those who request them because they are interested, and the volatility means

You said that you wanted to use the monthly average to value your collateral. You did not mention anything about what your altcoin could be traded for today if it were to be sold.

it really doesn't make sense to go down for you to gain more collateral for the loan, while the other way is 'unethical'. Hence, the compromise at the stated terms of taking a monthly avg for the value of the collateral and loan amount being discussed.

The unethical part would be withholding to other potentially interested parties the fact that you are overvaluing the collateral based on current market conditions.

The reason why you give more collateral then the loan is worth is so the lender does not have to sell the collateral after even a small decline in it's price. This is to protect you from having what is essentially a margin call after only a small decline in the price of your collateral.

No one who is interested and PM's me is not told about what value I use to calculate the collateral with, and the reason for such, which I find to be fair.

Of course it would be fair for you. You are getting the better end of the bargin.

  As I mentioned, in the past negotiations have made parties agree to terms that are acceptable to both, and in many cases it brought the collateral to a more agreeable amount as we assessed each other's position and found a compromise. This is a negotiation phase, and that's how deals are made - middle ground that both parties can agree on from their respective starting points. My starting point is the monthly avg for the collateral - and we, as I repeatedly mentioned, negotiate to find a compromise that is within acceptable bounds for each of us.

I think it is pretty standard to ask for 110% to 120% worth of collateral based on current market conditions.

As I said, 'All terms are up for negotiations' - as in the OP. Once again, I understand your concern, but I do not believe I have with held any information, some even irrelevant, to our negotiations. I would ask you to retract such a claim because it simple does not match the facts - and I believe you are giving an unqualified statement as to what you deem 'unethical' vs. 'simple disadvantageous'. I have not with held any kind of information from you or any other interested parties when they contacted me (certainly no one will have any trouble figuring out the price avg for the collateral anyway with loan amount offered vs. recent market movements).

The relevant information that you withheld is the value of the collateral. You gave only a favorable valuation to it's valuation and did not give full disclosure.

Once again, I would ask that you correct your statement since I have disclosed everything in the negotiations. If you want to further negotiate the appropriate loan vs collateral, feel free to message me and we can work out a deal we both find acceptable

I am going to decline to participate in this deal.

[Honeypot]

I do not currently keep a twitter account - as in 'current' being the key word here. Perhaps I would explain it further it your comment was not accusatory, but I would hate to assume others are not thoughtful enough to understand the conversation, or is in need of hand holding as such. May be your standards and mine are different. Your call however People I have met and talked with there and through other channels know that this is who I am, so that means my actions are scrutinized far more than any mere anonymous screen name in the forums.

Once again, I don't understand how you can possibly say I am over valuing anything when in my previous deals, I actually have loans based on deals lower then the current avg. It is a starting point of the negotiations, and it seems you cannot separate this concept from a set in stone condition, which it is not. Furthermore, the fact that most other deals calculate collateral based on immediate condition makes it neither justified or fair - these are my personal terms and position from where I hope to begin the negotiations, and you would do well to understand this concept before making any accusations because you find it to your 'disadvantage'.

I mentioned the collateral name, and the monthly avg value. If you want to find out its current position, no one will have any trouble looking it up in simplest ways along the usual exchanges. I do not presume to spoon feed and treat my clients as if they cannot be bothered to do so or is incapable.

If you do not like the fact that my starting point of the negotiations begin with me trying to minimize the disadvantage to my position as much as possible, then you counter it with your position and we work towards a compromise. It's called initial negotiating position - something that seems alien to you since you are essentially saying everything I say and wanting to get the best out of the deal is 'unethical' and 'wrong'. I do not believe I have ever closed doors on the possibility of counter suggestions and compromise - but you presume to say that you can demand certain conditions while calling my own negotiations an 'unethical practice'.

There is nothing I have with held, relevant or irrelevant - unless you are seriously claiming that you need everything literally delivered on a silver platter. I gave you the name, monthly avg, and amount of the collateral being discussed. Anyone with half a brain can easily see what its current value is, what 'monthly avg' means, and that volatility of the markets makes 'current' value about as worth as its possible x2 value next hour - hence the practice of taking the monthly avg. If the current values were x3 then it was weeks ago, then as I have done in the past I would avg down my collateral to match the overall market trend. It is interesting how you do not take notice of those things while picking out nothings and distorting my intentions and words to smear the deal

With this type of entitled mentality that justifies your own pursuit of profit at the expense of childishly vilifying another, it's a little surprise you think you can say any of what you claimed and hope to be taken seriously. You repeatedly claim 'this is standard' 'everyone else is doing this' 'says you' 'unethical', yet I see nothing about understanding whether you know what negotiating means or wanting to compromise - only that you see a deal that is less advantageous than usual and presumes to say that it is 'unethical'.

Everything you have said simply boils down to you not liking what you are being told, and instead of discussing the deal, you want some kind of instant gratification and sweet deal on a silver platter. Not to mention you are flat out lying about not being told relevant information - no one in their right mind will consider your claim justified unless they are saying you somehow deserve to be offered up every possible scrap of information and their cousins as an offering (why, because you are anything more than an equal party in a negotiation?), something that is easily found out if an individual can type or surf the web from the most obvious sources.

Is it any wonder that the forums are full of scammers and paranoid mods, when every single fuck who expects everything for themselves mouths off and accuses others of lying? If you think my initial starting position is very disadvantageous, then either work towards a compromise or simply decline the deal. To bitch and moan wailing about 'unethical' or 'scam' because you don't find things to your advantage is simply ridiculous. If you were more interested in sealing the deal and (as you are expected to do, why not you can think for yourself to do basic leg work on your own) simply found out about the current market conditions, there would have been no problems. Instead you presume to demand to be catered to and be covered for every excuse you would otherwise use to accuse others of 'lying'.


It's too bad that you find the terms not to your liking, or that you are incapable of basic negotiations and haggling, but that is your decision. Just as it is mine to state my initial position to my relevant advantage and work towards a compromise. Being greedy and ignorant doesn't always fly when you are a customer or a client, but you can't admit that you are arguing with an entitled mentality here that squeals 'unethical' whenever you find out that the game is a 2 player affair

Serious offers and negotiations welcome

[Honeypot]

Ducatitalia has reserved 4 btc portion of this loan with negotiated terms. Remaining portion 2.4 btc.

OP updated.

2.4 btc portion still open for offers.

[lihuajkl]

We have agreement through PM as follow:
Loan offered for 40% interest rate, with payment of 8% every 30 days from the day Honeypot receive the funds to his btc address, GMT, up to 150 days. At the 150 day mark, Honeypot repay the last interest amount and the principle itself.

Every 30 days, Honeypot send 0.136 BTC to me. I will confirm via PM and publicly on this thread the receipt of the interest.

Finaly repayment: 2.38 btc total = 1.7 btc principle + 0.638 btc (8% * 5) interest 

We ask Maidak to hold the 30 million noblecoin as collateral. No liquidation of any kind, just holding the collateral only to be dispensed if the interests or the principle are not paid back on time.

[Honeypot]

We have agreement through PM as follow:
Loan offered for 40% interest rate, with payment of 8% every 30 days from the day Honeypot receive the funds to his btc address, GMT, up to 150 days. At the 150 day mark, Honeypot repay the last interest amount and the principle itself.

Every 30 days, Honeypot send 0.136 BTC to me. I will confirm via PM and publicly on this thread the receipt of the interest.

Finaly repayment: 2.38 btc total = 1.7 btc principle + 0.638 btc (8% * 5) interest 

We ask Maidak to hold the 30 million noblecoin as collateral. No liquidation of any kind, just holding the collateral only to be dispensed if the interests or the principle are not paid back on time.

Confirmed, waiting on escrow to agree to hold the collateral.

[TJogger]

Due to ongoing problems with the moderators with my existing accounts, I will be using this account (assuming it is once again not shut down for no proper reason other then 'wahhhh he hurt my feelings' ) and email cryptobuyer@gmail.com to communicate with my investors. I will keep this updated as much as possible - and you are free to ask me confirmations as to my identity.

Or you can petition certain moderators on the forums to remove the restrictions on my Honeypot/ReservoirHunt account (both publicly declared to be mine infact)

Sooner the better, easier the communications will be

[Rum152]

Amount: Total 5.7 btc loaned out - still receiving loan offer of any amount with below terms but will be uncollateralized if offered due to collaterals being 100% promised to current interested parties.

Duration: 150 days (about 5 months, can be paid back earlier depending on negotiations)

Repayment amount: Total of 30% interest + Principle. Every 30 days, I will pay out 6% interest, and principle will be fully repaid along with the last 6% interest payment after 150 days (about 5 months). 6% (every 30 days) X 5 = 30% interest for 150 days. 6.4 BTC + 1.92 BTC in 30% interest = total 8.32 btc repayment.

Essentially, 6% interest on the principle will be paid out to you every 30 days from the beginning of the loan, four times until 150 days are up (about 5 months) at which point all 6.4 btc + last 6% interest payment will be made, GMT.

Loan purpose: I am deeply involved in btc trades and also in the altcoin scene. My previous transactions in the trust category can speak for themselves.

You can check the previous threads here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=398293.0;all

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=430970.new#new

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=751645.0;all

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=841349.msg9389799#msg9389799


I can provide a collateral in a different coin to cover most of the loan at the current avg monthly market price, if that would ease your concerns due to this request being a relatively large amount. Escrow will be the one we both agree on that can be trusted to hold the collateral. I would prefer to ask this public escrow to hold the collateral:

Rofo (aka Jason L. Curby profile):

https://www.noblemovement.com/nobleescrow/

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=198862;sa=summary

https://au.linkedin.com/pub/jason-curby/27/9b8/994

https://twitter.com/NobleCoin

Not some faceless anonymous escrow on btc talk, so I would trust him personally. We can discuss it further.



Also, you can say my collateral is my reputation not only on btc talk forum trading reputation, but also my crypto reputation in general (irc, twitter, other forums etc) since people i work with know my forum handle. I would like to state this just to make clear what I am proposing.

I reserve the right to pay everything back earlier (all 30% interest + principle).

Thank you for taking time to read this request - I have posted in several threads seeking a loan for similar conditions. Anyone who comes first will have priority in terms of negotiations.

Most terms are negotiable. PM me for details on the collateral.

Thank you in advance


Update: Loan amount adjusted to reflect the recent price changes.
Update #2: More adjustments to the terms, extended time period and loan amounts.
Update #3: ducatitalia reserved 4 btc with negotiated terms.
Update #4: lihuajkl reserved 1.7 btc with negotiated terms. Collateral completely promised. OP updated. Waiting on escrow.

I have a friend who, against my advice might be interested in lending to you based on the monthly average price. It looks like two people have reserved spots, however are the terms finalized? If the offer is still open can you please let me know honeypot? Thanks ;0

[TJogger]

Amount: Total 5.7 btc loaned out - still receiving loan offer of any amount with below terms but will be uncollateralized if offered due to collaterals being 100% promised to current interested parties.

Duration: 150 days (about 5 months, can be paid back earlier depending on negotiations)

Repayment amount: Total of 30% interest + Principle. Every 30 days, I will pay out 6% interest, and principle will be fully repaid along with the last 6% interest payment after 150 days (about 5 months). 6% (every 30 days) X 5 = 30% interest for 150 days. 6.4 BTC + 1.92 BTC in 30% interest = total 8.32 btc repayment.

Essentially, 6% interest on the principle will be paid out to you every 30 days from the beginning of the loan, four times until 150 days are up (about 5 months) at which point all 6.4 btc + last 6% interest payment will be made, GMT.

Loan purpose: I am deeply involved in btc trades and also in the altcoin scene. My previous transactions in the trust category can speak for themselves.

You can check the previous threads here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=398293.0;all

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=430970.new#new

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=751645.0;all

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=841349.msg9389799#msg9389799


I can provide a collateral in a different coin to cover most of the loan at the current avg monthly market price, if that would ease your concerns due to this request being a relatively large amount. Escrow will be the one we both agree on that can be trusted to hold the collateral. I would prefer to ask this public escrow to hold the collateral:

Rofo (aka Jason L. Curby profile):

https://www.noblemovement.com/nobleescrow/

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=198862;sa=summary

https://au.linkedin.com/pub/jason-curby/27/9b8/994

https://twitter.com/NobleCoin

Not some faceless anonymous escrow on btc talk, so I would trust him personally. We can discuss it further.



Also, you can say my collateral is my reputation not only on btc talk forum trading reputation, but also my crypto reputation in general (irc, twitter, other forums etc) since people i work with know my forum handle. I would like to state this just to make clear what I am proposing.

I reserve the right to pay everything back earlier (all 30% interest + principle).

Thank you for taking time to read this request - I have posted in several threads seeking a loan for similar conditions. Anyone who comes first will have priority in terms of negotiations.

Most terms are negotiable. PM me for details on the collateral.

Thank you in advance


Update: Loan amount adjusted to reflect the recent price changes.
Update #2: More adjustments to the terms, extended time period and loan amounts.
Update #3: ducatitalia reserved 4 btc with negotiated terms.
Update #4: lihuajkl reserved 1.7 btc with negotiated terms. Collateral completely promised. OP updated. Waiting on escrow.

I have a friend who, against my advice might be interested in lending to you based on the monthly average price. It looks like two people have reserved spots, however are the terms finalized? If the offer is still open can you please let me know honeypot? Thanks ;0

A 'Friend' - of course

As of now, all the collateral has been promised to the two respective parties above. My account is restricted at the moment, so I will communicate via email shown above on my post. I have already sent copies of past conversations to ducatitalia and lihuajkl to prove my identity. You can also google that email and see that it was part of my Honeypot post long ago for a project that is dormant now.

If your 'friend' issues a loan to me, it would be uncollateralized since I have already promised the whole collateral to the parties above. If the 'friend' is still interested, have him  send an email there anyway.

[Rum152]

A 'Friend' - of course

As of now, all the collateral has been promised to the two respective parties above. My account is restricted at the moment, so I will communicate via email shown above on my post. I have already sent copies of past conversations to ducatitalia and lihuajkl to prove my identity. You can also google that email and see that it was part of my Honeypot post long ago for a project that is dormant now.

If your 'friend' issues a loan to me, it would be uncollateralized since I have already promised the whole collateral to the parties above. If the 'friend' is still interested, have him  send an email there anyway.

I am not sure who you are, but my friend is only interested in the deal with the OP. I think you should create your own thread if you want to take out an uncollateralized loan.

[TJogger]

A 'Friend' - of course

As of now, all the collateral has been promised to the two respective parties above. My account is restricted at the moment, so I will communicate via email shown above on my post. I have already sent copies of past conversations to ducatitalia and lihuajkl to prove my identity. You can also google that email and see that it was part of my Honeypot post long ago for a project that is dormant now.

If your 'friend' issues a loan to me, it would be uncollateralized since I have already promised the whole collateral to the parties above. If the 'friend' is still interested, have him  send an email there anyway.

I am not sure who you are, but my friend is only interested in the deal with the OP. I think you should create your own thread if you want to take out an uncollateralized loan.

Did you not read the OP that you quoted? All the collateral has been promised already, and I updated as so before you asked.


Cheeky ain't cha? Of course you had no part in petitioning the mod to ban my Honeypot account from posting or issuing pm because your little feelings got hurt haha

If your 'friend' is keen on confirming my identity, send a pm (it can still receive pm, just not post or send pm) to Honeypot and I can quote them back using this one or my email.


You know what you and your kind is trying to do, so drop the bull and act straight

[Muhammed Zakir]

Did you got full amount? I can give you 0.4-0.7BTC interest-free loan. Collateral needed! I can accept any established altcoins or any other. You can escrow the collateral, if you don't trust me!

P.S. Any way to reduce the term lenght?

   ~~MZ~~

[madmax6688]

Did you got full amount? I can give you 0.4-0.7BTC interest-free loan. Collateral needed! I can accept any established altcoins or any other. You can escrow the collateral, if you don't trust me!

P.S. Any way to reduce the term lenght?

   ~~MZ~~

If you check meta, he was banned

[ducatitalia]

 
Honeypot...I'm sure you can understand that given the ongoing account challenges you are having with forum mods and Maidak's lack of response, I am going to have to put a hold on this transaction until everything is cleared up and resolved.  

Reference link:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=931143.msg10224334#msg10224334

The risk and challenge level parameters of this potential loan have changed significantly given the new and evolving details regarding your account/accounts.  One of the driving forces for approval is the trust rating associated with your Honeypot account...if this account is now banned and/or limited, then a major approval criteria has been eliminated.

Unfortunately, given the change of circumstances, loan underwriting criteria has not been met at this point.  Please do keep me posted should things get resolved, as I would certainly be willing to reevaluate the situation and reconsider a future potential loan, if it could be helpful at some other point in time.  Thank you again for reaching out to me for assistance.

[ScryptAsic]

Honeypot...I'm sure you can understand that given the ongoing account challenges you are having with forum mods and Maidak's lack of response, I am going to have to put a hold on this transaction until everything is cleared up and resolved.  

Reference link:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=931143.msg10224334#msg10224334

The risk and challenge level parameters of this potential loan have changed significantly given the new and evolving details regarding your account/accounts.  One of the driving forces for approval is the trust rating associated with your Honeypot account...if this account is now banned and/or limited, then a major approval criteria has been eliminated.

Unfortunately, given the change of circumstances, loan underwriting criteria has not been met at this point.  Please do keep me posted should things get resolved, as I would certainly be willing to reevaluate the situation and reconsider a future potential loan, if it could be helpful at some other point in time.  Thank you again for reaching out to me for assistance.

This is probably a good decision. However it you look above you will see that he is somewhat deceitful when describing his collateral and if you look at his trust ratings you will see that most of his trust was gained from an escrow holding collateral for him.

[jonald_fyookball]

lol this is hilarious.

what did this guy do to get banned?
I thought you have to try pretty hard to get banned around here.

Anyway, you have to be realistic about
the fact altcoins aren't stable.  if you want a 5 month loan
you have to allow liquidation otherwise it is too risky.
that's like, common sense.

Plus you have to offer 120% of the current value,
not some monthly average amount.

also, I wouldn't recommend lending out
that much bitcoin, it may be hard to
sell the altcoin without crashing the price.

[ajaxmoor]

I am curious to do these loans get repaid by the dollar mount, or do they get paid to the bitcoin amount only . Isn't it risky to loan such an amount as a variation could bring a similar loan 5 months back, from 3000$ to around 1200$ right now ?