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Author Topic: Hacker Tracker  (Read 1291 times)
dscotese (OP)
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January 11, 2015, 08:15:34 PM
Last edit: January 11, 2015, 08:44:56 PM by dscotese
 #1

Transactions out of the "Bitstamp Hack" address into addresses that had never been used before:
1PhbKjG9gYeYVXfvi4AjW9pJ1s9MrqMuH4
1EtH88P5feywPJE1nyrjggd41JeCuEeKNi and 1Fze2Qx6Covm7jnC4ffCD9Lsst2sD7CaqE
16FEx2PYFwo9i38vyXktwYEfPiyQN6JpMW and 1K4wcA9fB9e3f68kuWFLm4uPq1VqBYxTpg
...

I did those three by hand.  This could be automated so that anyone can see (and blockchain.info could tag) those addresses for which the very first coins they get are from a known tagged address.  I did them so that I could use this page to tag them as "Bitcoin Hack Mixer" addresses.  Seemed like fun at the time.  It would be neat to see this automated.

Followup: Blockchain allows you to submit tags either by signing something with the address being tagged, or by submitting a URL to a page describing the address.  The URL cannot contain a QueryString, and it can't redirect, so this bitcointalk thread doesn't work.  I posted my analysis above here and that worked.

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January 12, 2015, 01:13:53 AM
 #2

If the hacker uses a reputable mixing services then it will not be possible to link the address of the stolen bitcoin from bitstamp to the address the hacker receives bitcoin to. The two addresses will be unrelated on the blockchain, although they may be able to be linked via some kind of timing analysis

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January 12, 2015, 01:30:44 AM
 #3

I think a reputable mixing service might not like to provide services to the thief.  I certainly don't enjoy helping criminals.  I realize that a healthy financial incentive could be offered, but there are some people who see the big picture well enough to remain unaffected by such temptation.  I would like more people to see that big picture.

A good way to ruin your reputation is to help criminals fuck over their victims.

Has anyone heard anything about a reward for identifying the hacker, assuming there is one?

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January 14, 2015, 06:10:42 PM
 #4

I think the Helix BTC mixer by Grams would be a viable option to mix those coins, because they also use coins that aren't related to the original inputs, and that they have a really  broad opinion about their clientele.

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January 14, 2015, 07:12:59 PM
 #5

I think a reputable mixing service might not like to provide services to the thief.  I certainly don't enjoy helping criminals.  I realize that a healthy financial incentive could be offered, but there are some people who see the big picture well enough to remain unaffected by such temptation.  I would like more people to see that big picture.

A good way to ruin your reputation is to help criminals fuck over their victims.

Has anyone heard anything about a reward for identifying the hacker, assuming there is one?

quite the opposite
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January 14, 2015, 09:40:59 PM
 #6

If you were the hacker wouldn't you set up your own mixing service?

I assume the hacker is technologically literate and has friends who are good at coding/web design.

Why not pay one of your buddies 1000BTC to set up a new mixing service and slowly churn them through it over the next year or two.

Is this a viable option, or would the coins still be traceable?
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January 14, 2015, 10:07:55 PM
 #7

Why not pay one of your buddies 1000BTC to set up a new mixing service and slowly churn them through it over the next year or two.

Jesus! You'd pay 1000BTC?!?!

Hi, my names BAC. Nice to meet ya Smiley jk

Tracking Bitcoins is retarded because the person who stole them could just sell the private keys to a someone for cash and the BTC would never have to move.

Chalk them up as gone and go about life.

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January 14, 2015, 10:13:37 PM
 #8

Why not pay one of your buddies 1000BTC to set up a new mixing service and slowly churn them through it over the next year or two.

Jesus! You'd pay 1000BTC?!?!

Hi, my names BAC. Nice to meet ya Smiley jk

Tracking Bitcoins is retarded because the person who stole them could just sell the private keys to a someone for cash and the BTC would never have to move.

Chalk them up as gone and go about life.

If I'd stolen 19,000BTC and I knew a guy who'd help me mix them and stay totally anonymous I'd give him a nineteenth of my stash, yep. If you paid someone that kind of money you be pretty sure he'd want to keep it quiet too.

If you just sold the private keys then the person buying them would now have coins linked to the theft as soon as he imported them over clearnet. If you were selling keys for 500BTC a time then people would be inquisitive I guess.
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January 14, 2015, 10:16:17 PM
 #9

... If you paid someone that kind of money you be pretty sure he'd want to keep it quiet too.

haha not going to disagree with that!

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dscotese (OP)
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January 15, 2015, 02:22:46 AM
 #10

If what I did by hand got automated, then the mixing service would have to find people with addresses that have already been used (private key already know by at least one) and add their addresses to the pool through which the coins are mixed.  Otherwise, every payment would show on blockchain that it came from "Bitstamp Hack Mixer X".  The automation could even be enhanced to tag addresses that aren't getting their first inputs from the hack as "Bitstamp Hack Tainted 1", "Bistamp Hack Tainted 2", etc.

Some people say "I don't care if I get stolen coins.  The victim should have known better."  While everyone who suffers at the hands of criminals should know better than to allow themselves to be at all vulnerable to criminals, there is something to be said for cooperating in preventing crime from paying off.  Bitcoin itself was created partially to prevent the financial overlords from continuing their crime spree.  If you ever chose to use BTC instead of USD because you prefer upstanding folks to have a better experience on this rock than (actual, not "statutory") criminals (such as the federal reserve), then consider promoting the idea of using software to make criminals more apparent.

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January 15, 2015, 03:08:41 AM
 #11

If what I did by hand got automated, then the mixing service would have to find people with addresses that have already been used (private key already know by at least one) and add their addresses to the pool through which the coins are mixed.  Otherwise, every payment would show on blockchain that it came from "Bitstamp Hack Mixer X".  The automation could even be enhanced to tag addresses that aren't getting their first inputs from the hack as "Bitstamp Hack Tainted 1", "Bistamp Hack Tainted 2", etc.

Some people say "I don't care if I get stolen coins.  The victim should have known better."  While everyone who suffers at the hands of criminals should know better than to allow themselves to be at all vulnerable to criminals, there is something to be said for cooperating in preventing crime from paying off.  Bitcoin itself was created partially to prevent the financial overlords from continuing their crime spree.  If you ever chose to use BTC instead of USD because you prefer upstanding folks to have a better experience on this rock than (actual, not "statutory") criminals (such as the federal reserve), then consider promoting the idea of using software to make criminals more apparent.

If you start saying "sorry I can't accept this Bitcoin because it was stolen" or "Sorry that Bitcoin appears to have been used on the Silk Road" then you will seriously fuck up the economy and steer a lot of people away from it.

I believe a Bitcoin can do no crime therefore a Bitcoin should NEVER not be accepted.  There are similar laws for the dollar in the United States.

By all means track them as your hearts content, but don't reject them.


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dscotese (OP)
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January 15, 2015, 03:38:24 AM
 #12

If you start saying "sorry I can't accept this Bitcoin because it was stolen" or "Sorry that Bitcoin appears to have been used on the Silk Road" then you will seriously fuck up the economy and steer a lot of people away from it.

I believe a Bitcoin can do no crime therefore a Bitcoin should NEVER not be accepted.  There are similar laws for the dollar in the United States.

By all means track them as your hearts content, but don't reject them.

You ascribe way too much power to me.  Don't try to sell me stolen coins.  If I notice, my opinion of you will sink, future transactions will be more difficult between us, and if anyone ever offers a reward, I will pass on the info in the hope that you have a record of how you got them.

Now you wrote "...stolen" or "...Silk Road"
With the second part of the OR there, I still don't think you're right, but I wouldn't do that because the Silk Road was a force for good.  Thieves are just assholes and provide statists with reasons to interfere with everything.

With the first part of your OR, it sure sounds like you think most bitcoin floating around is stolen.  I doubt that you do and I suspect that you're just being hyperbolic.  Aside from pretending that your hyperbole is not an exaggeration, is there any rationale behind the claim that rejecting payments in obviously stolen coins would fuck up* the bitcoin economy?  I'd like to hear it.  I think it might have the opposite effect for a few reasons:
1. Thieves would consider stealing stuff other than bitcoins.
2. People who reject transactions too easily because they are fooled into thinking the source address is connected to a theft would suffer as a great example that due diligence is valuable.
3. Those who accept stolen coins easily will be recognized, which adds to the information being used to make decisions and therefore produces better overall decisions.
4. The fucking* statists who so desperately want to control everything will lose a great amount of their rationale for screwing with the bitcoin economy.

*You said "fuck" first.

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January 15, 2015, 04:35:10 AM
 #13

*You said "fuck" first.

Fuck is a fine word to say.  I couldn't even fucking imagine my fucking life if I couldn't say fuck!!!

You ascribe way too much power to me.  Don't try to sell me stolen coins.  If I notice, my opinion of you will sink, future transactions will be more difficult between us, and if anyone ever offers a reward, I will pass on the info in the hope that you have a record of how you got them.

Maybe you don't ascribe enough power in yourself.  I'm not trying to sell you anything!  My goal isn't to sink your opinion or me and any transactions we have will be silky smooth for the reason that I will always respect your privacy.  If you like being a paid snitch that is totally fine and your business as well... I'll never knock a person of their income because I'm not in your shoes <3.

Shall we continue:

Now you wrote "...stolen" or "...Silk Road"
With the second part of the OR there, I still don't think you're right, but I wouldn't do that because the Silk Road was a force for good.  Thieves are just assholes and provide statists with reasons to interfere with everything.

Silk Roads a force for good?  Roll Eyes

So snitch on stuff you personally think is evil and let the good slide. K.

What happens when you snitch on the wrong person cause someone sold a priv key to some poor Dentist who was just interested in Bitcoin?  

Who is the asshole then?

With the first part of your OR, it sure sounds like you think most bitcoin floating around is stolen.  

You think most of your Bitcoin stash didn't get ran though the Silk Road, some scam mining company first or any other various scam Crypto business?

Are we talking as Gentleman or is this a Congress meeting Wink Tongue

rejecting payments in obviously stolen coins would fuck up* the bitcoin economy?  I'd like to hear it.

Bitcoin has a lot of strength because it one.  Any time you start splitting up Bitcoin by being a nosey fuck you'll take away from it.

Bitcoins not about the color of your hat, but the size of your wallet! Wink

I think it might have the opposite effect for a few reasons:
1. Thieves would consider stealing stuff other than bitcoins.
2. People who reject transactions too easily because they are fooled into thinking the source address is connected to a theft would suffer as a great example that due diligence is valuable.
3. Those who accept stolen coins easily will be recognized, which adds to the information being used to make decisions and therefore produces better overall decisions.
4. The fucking* statists who so desperately want to control everything will lose a great amount of their rationale for screwing with the bitcoin economy.
1. Stealing Bitcoins is going to happen.  Even if its just for the lolz.  It helps Bitcoin & the users become stronger as well.
2. Should never reject any BTC transaction.  
3. So your going to bust some poor dudes balls who is trying to sell Honey or anything else like that via BTC.  What if you ID the person wrong and then you've just slandered the shit out of some poor honest small business owner.
4. Who is being controling!?  I don't think the answer to controlling is via controlling.

*You said "fuck" first.

All fucking good Cheesy


History
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=85433.msg940702#msg940702

You introducing a system that imposes a form of taint does nothing to prevent theft but does make using Bitcoin a hassle for those who are innocent.

Therefore I do not support this and will vigorously reject any movement towards this initiative and any like it.
^ Agree

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dscotese (OP)
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January 15, 2015, 05:44:44 AM
 #14

Fuck is a fine word to say.  I couldn't even fucking imagine my fucking life if I couldn't say fuck!!!
Amen!  er- I mean, Fuckin-A!

Silk Roads a force for good?  Roll Eyes
Of course it was.  It was a free market.  It was honest.  People were getting quality goods because of the reputation system.

So snitch on stuff you personally think is evil and let the good slide. K.
Of course!  What would you do, snitch on what someone else tells you is evil and let slide what someone else tells you is good?  You have a (fucking) conscience, use it!  Fucking public education makes people think that good and evil is defined by the assholes legislators.

What happens when you snitch on the wrong person cause someone sold a priv key to some poor Dentist who was just interested in Bitcoin?  
Who is the asshole then?
Define "snitch".  Perhaps you misread this part:
rejecting payments in obviously stolen [sic - oops forgot to type bitcoin] in the hope that you have a record of how you got them.
It's important to assume that the people you trade with aren't the assholes thieves.  You think your dentist who pays you (for what?) in stolen bitcoin doesn't want to know that he bought the private key from the bitstamp hacker?  That would be nice info to have!  You don't like dentists, do you?

You think most of your Bitcoin stash didn't get ran though the Silk Road, some scam mining company first or any other various scam Crypto business?
Again with the Silk Road?!!  Silk Road was a shining light.

A guy told me he was working on a pump and dump.  I told him not to be an asshole.  He understood me.  Does he still do mining scams?  I don't know.  The victims never published a btc address to which their scammed funds went.  "Various scam Crypto businesses" suck ass.  Scammers build themselves a little worldview consisting of "most people are idiots I can exploit if I'm careful enough," which also means "most people are cool enough to trust me," but instead of making the world better with this opportunity, they fuck it up.  Assholes!  Of course I know I got some bitcoin that some assholes got first.  I would happily cut them out of the economy if I could: they are assholes.  And it's not just other people they screw up.  They screw up themselves because they view trusting souls as hosts to their parasite selves.  It's bad for the victim, and it's bad for the perp.  It rots your soul to exploit people like that.  So they're not just assholes.  They're stupid assholes.  Unfortunately, often not stupid enough to get into enough trouble to learn their lesson.  Do you not bother keeping track of people who try to screw you over so you can avoid them?  Do you not share that information with your friends so they don't get screwed?  WTF dude?  You a scammer?

Are we talking as Gentleman or is this a Congress meeting Wink Tongue
Gentlemen meeting.  Congress is a parasite.  Government should be replaced with individual consciences which work a lot better.  Try it!  You'll like it!

Bitcoin has a lot of strength because it one.  Any time you start splitting up Bitcoin by being a nosey fuck you'll take away from it.
Paying attention = being a nosey fuck?  You really do sound like a scammer!  So I should keep my mouth shut when I know someone lied to you?  Ok.  But you're the only one.  I protect all my other friends from the assholes whenever I can.  I suppose I may have published a picture of you if you scammed me.  Check my newsletter (http://goo.gl/MzJC8S).  If you rectify the situation and I publish that, people will think you're a great guy.  Then you just have to actually be one.  But that probably wasn't you.  Hopefully you're already a great guy.  Or girl.  WTF? A girl on bitcointalk?  Hmm...

1. Stealing Bitcoins is going to happen.  Even if its just for the lolz.  It helps Bitcoin & the users become stronger as well.
2. Should never reject any BTC transaction.  
3. So your going to bust some poor dudes balls who is trying to sell Honey or anything else like that via BTC.  What if you ID the person wrong and then you've just slandered the shit out of some poor honest small business owner.
4. Who is being controling!?  I don't think the answer to controlling is via controlling.
1. In what ways do Bitcoin & the users become stronger?  Do they pay MORE attention?  Do they invite statist assholes to interfere to catch criminals?  I think it would be great to pay more attention and to crowd out statist assholes.  I think it would be great for people to worry that if they do something too assholish, they might have trouble using any btc they got.  Do you think Silk Road was assholish?  Mining scams?  The Bistamp theft?  Inquiring Minds want to know!  (My answers are NO, A little, and absolutely!)
2. Why not reject transactions from people you think are assholes?  Because maybe you make a mistake, right?  Why not do some due diligence?  Just a little.  Provide incentive to them to rectify their heist.  Encourage the victim to offer a reward.  The "Figure out how to steal from me and then explain it for a reward" strategy would also strengthen Bitcoin & the users.
3. I don't bust dudes or their balls.  I'm not a thug.  I pass along valuable information, and the fact that someone who wants to trade with me has bitcoins that came from the Bitstamp hack is one such piece of information.  Property rights is a foundational concept in the progress of the human species.  Assholes!  They don't get it.  They dis it.  FUCK them.  No, not really - they're just stupid and I'd like to make it easy for them to learn.  So the taint-based tracking available to every miner is a great way to do that.
4. Everyone ought to be controlling over their own stuff, which includes their participation in any transaction to which they might be a party.  You know that governments enjoy this inane and idiotic privilege of violating people for breaking the fucking laws they invent, right?  VIOLATING people - stealing their stuff, locking them up, all kinds of crap like that, just because they made up some stupid law (don't sell raw milk?  WTF?  Don't grow hemp?  WTF? see?  they are bigger assholes than the thieves).  I don't have that privilege, so we don't really need to worry about me controlling people.  Controlling myself, though, that is something on which I pride myself.  You should too.  Like I said, you have a conscience, so use it!  We should all be controlling, but only controlling of ourselves.  There ought to be 7 billion governments on this planet = 7 billion consciences, each one taking responsibility to help assholes learn not to be assholes.

So do you know Mr. Gornick?  Have you discussed bitcoin fungibility with him?  He apparently believed that fungibility is more important than property rights.  I do not.  But whether a bitcoin user or a miner excludes or includes any given transaction with which they are involved is under their own individual control, so the aggregate of all those individual decisions is generally controlling anyway.  Stephen was, and now you are, just encouraging people to ignore facts to preserve some precious ideal that you feel is more important than property rights.  I think property rights are more important, but I would NEVER EVER EVER use coercion to force acceptance or rejection of bitcoin transactions for any reason.  Coercion is a serious and harmful tool that diminishes the development of the conscience.  The more we (like bitcoin) rely on individual decisions to be made well, the better things will get.

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January 15, 2015, 05:52:12 AM
Last edit: January 15, 2015, 06:04:18 AM by BayAreaCoins
 #15

You really do sound like a scammer!  

Not going to respond to someone who begins slandering me.

I've done nothing but honest business and will continue to do honest business, so keep on snitchin snitch.

This isn't helping anyone.

BTW the SR was full of horrible shit.

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January 15, 2015, 06:08:51 AM
 #16

Again with the Silk Road?!!  Silk Road was a shining light.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2910402/Bitcoin-trader-18-accused-bludgeoning-heroin-addict-lawyer-roommate-death-says-tied-gunpoint-forced-sell-assets.html

Drugs are all fun and games with Bitcoin until you have to murder your room mate with a hammer.

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January 15, 2015, 06:25:42 AM
 #17

Again with the Silk Road?!!  Silk Road was a shining light.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2910402/Bitcoin-trader-18-accused-bludgeoning-heroin-addict-lawyer-roommate-death-says-tied-gunpoint-forced-sell-assets.html

Drugs are all fun and games with Bitcoin until you have to murder your room mate with a hammer.
Well, yeah, life is all fun and games until you have to murder anyone with a hammer or even a screwdriver!
I don't really understand what you're getting at.  We can stop if you want.  I gotta go to bed anyway.

Anyway, if you want to keep searching for bad shit that is related to bitcoin, have fun - I'm sure you'll find a lot.  If you try it with dollars, though, you'll find a lot more.  Then try cops, and college, and maybe even HEROIN.  But it might be a little too far in the past to fund much bad shit related to SR because it was shut down a while ago.  But I understand what you're getting at.  Think about life itself: all violence and damage and murder occurs among living human beings.  This does not reflect poorly on living.  What you need is a control group, like the streets of LA where you can buy the kind of stuff you could get on SR.  But if you compare common drug-dealer hangouts and compare the bad shit per transaction there to the bad shit per transaction on SR, you'll see that SR was, as I said, a shining light.

If you like our thread - it's kind of ours now, eh? - we can continue tomorrow.  For now, good night.  And I don't think you're a scammer.  I was joking around.  But how would I know?  And plus, what you wrote did kind of suggest that you prefer the darkness to the light.  I suppose bitcoin kind of invites that sort of thinking because it makes it easier to prevent the real criminals (government) from snooping around, interfering, and causing lots of pain and suffering with their stupid laws (eg the drug-dealer street corners again). Good night BAC.  And happy trading!

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January 15, 2015, 06:29:01 AM
 #18

And happy trading!

Happy trading to you too! I might write something back in a bit.  I'm going to get stoned and see how I feel Cheesy <3

Good vibes going to bed and good chatting with you!  It's honestly pretty amazing we even have the chance to shoot the shit. Agree or disagree.

We are going to get on the same page one way or the other Cheesy god damnit!!!! Wink

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