Miners are killing bitcoin

[MarketNeutral]

Observe how pessimistic the newer members are compared to the elder members.

[1715349275]

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[1715349275]

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[mayax]

Observe how pessimistic the newer members are compared to the elder members.

they are not pessimists. they live in reality. if the miners will stop the mining , there will be NO Bitcoin.  because in this scenario transaction confirmation would take days or weeks.

 Who will validate the transactions?

[MarketNeutral]

Observe how pessimistic the newer members are compared to the elder members.

they are not pessimists. they live in reality. if the miners will stop the mining , there will be NO Bitcoin.  because in this scenario transaction confirmation would take days or weeks.

 Who will validate the transactions?

You're misinformed. Mining isn't going to stop because the price drops. It could drop to $10 per BTC and there'd still be plenty of hashing power to "validate" the transactions. There'd be many desperate and despondent miners, very angry miners, but the network will not suddenly stop because the price drops.

Also, I suggested that the newer members are generally more pessimistic than the elder members, not that they were pessimists. It's understandable, because they bought bitcoins at a higher price. I feel for them. We've all been there. I am a pessimist to my core, but I am not pessimistic about mining. You have to realize that the panic that's taking place right now, many of us have experienced this several times before. We're not as vocal about it, because we know it will pass. Another reason there's so much despair and pessimism about the price is that for many new members, this is the first time they've invested in anything, and they're not used to the pain of losing. How many of these newer members lost equity in the real estate bubble or the tech bubble or the stock market crash of 1987? Essentially, they invested more than they could afford to lose, and they lost. Tough, but that's why good investors are so obsessed with risk.

On the upside—to be an optimist, haha—after these kind of brutal corrections take place, people typically regret selling and typically regret not buying more when the price was low. Most investors are bad at investing. They follow their emotions, behave irrationally, and follow the herd. For such a contrarian group of people that bitcoin miners are, I'm a little surprised they don't have contrarian investing stratagems instead of buying high and selling low like they usually do.

[the joint]

Observe how pessimistic the newer members are compared to the elder members.

We replace pessimism with narcissism.

 

[mayax]

Observe how pessimistic the newer members are compared to the elder members.

they are not pessimists. they live in reality. if the miners will stop the mining , there will be NO Bitcoin.  because in this scenario transaction confirmation would take days or weeks.

 Who will validate the transactions?

You're misinformed. Mining isn't going to stop because the price drops. It could drop to $10 per BTC and there'd still be plenty of hashing power to "validate" the transactions. There'd be many desperate and despondent miners, very angry miners, but the network will not suddenly stop because the price drops.

Also, I suggested that the newer members are generally more pessimistic than the elder members, not that they were pessimists. It's understandable, because they bought bitcoins at a higher price. I feel for them. We've all been there. I am a pessimist to my core, but I am not pessimistic about mining. You have to realize that the panic that's taking place right now, many of us have experienced this several times before. We're not as vocal about it, because we know it will pass. Another reason there's so much despair and pessimism about the price is that for many new members, this is the first time they've invested in anything, and they're not used to the pain of losing. How many of these newer members lost equity in the real estate bubble or the tech bubble or the stock market crash of 1987? Essentially, they invested more than they could afford to lose, and they lost. Tough, but that's why good investors are so obsessed with risk.

On the upside—to be an optimist, haha—after these kind of brutal corrections take place, people typically regret selling and typically regret not buying more when the price was low. Most investors are bad at investing. They follow their emotions, behave irrationally, and follow the herd. For such a contrarian group of people that bitcoin miners are, I'm a little surprised they don't have contrarian investing stratagems instead of buying high and selling low like they usually do.

The miners won't work on loss. Now, many of them are doing that and it's 1 BTC = 230 USD
Why do you think that Cex.io stopped their biz today? I guess they had around of 60% from network...

[MarketNeutral]

Observe how pessimistic the newer members are compared to the elder members.

We replace pessimism with narcissism.

 

I didn't think about it like that. Spot on.

[Flashman]

Observe how pessimistic the newer members are compared to the elder members.

Silverback alpha bitcoiners be sitting back eating fruit, juveniles and betas be gibbering and flinging poop at every bush they see twitch. Silverbacks know a tiger when they see one, and will stride over and brain it with half a tree, until then let the rest of the troupe gibber.

[the joint]

The point is,THEY ARE PRODUCING BITCOIN AT A ALARMING RATE.

[Flashman]

mad paint skillz yo.


Not too sarcastically, nicely illustrative.

[rax]

Poor Satoshi, he looks rather sad. In my mind I've always pictured him as Dilbert's garbage man.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDH3XuxF_Qw

[flipstyle]

I think this is the biggest problem facing bitcoin right now.  Selling pressure + non profitable mining is not a good situation in this very pivotal time.

There's really nothing useful or informative about this assumption.  We already know that mining tends towards an equilibrium between difficulty and price.  Since we've been near equilibrium for some time now, we can expect the difficulty to drop if the price continues to drop (which it will, and it already has).

Way to put me in my place... I guess?  You first go on to say that my statement was an 'assumption,' which in fact it is anything but.  Then you further reinforce this by simply reiterating exactly what I said as fact.  

So yeah.  I don't know why you chose to re-quote me if you simply agreed with what I said.  And I never claimed any of my post was earth-shattering news, but rather just pointed out the obvious for those who quite ostensibly are unaware, and somehow think this is due to inflation.  

Cool pretentious attempt at a counter-rant though, brah.  You so erudite!

[Dimelord]

This new generation of bitcoiner is quite sad...

[subcoin]

These corporations are setting up shop pumping out more bitcoin than they even have a demand for.

I personally guarantee that there will be 3.5Th - no matter what the price is 
Yea, any my equipment is has already paid off.
Yea, and my electricity is free.

[JorgeStolfi]

As many other have pointed out, the miners have no control on the amount of new bitcoins that are produced.  Except for temporary fluctuations due to the delay in  the difficulty adjustment, here will be about 3600 BTC made each day, no matter what the miners do.

The miners can influence price, however, by holding some of their coins, instead of spending them.  But that is best understood as if each miner Joe were two persons, "Hasher Joe" who does the actual mining and sells all his coins, and a "Hoarder Joe" who buys back some of those coins with some of the money that Hasher Joe made. 

Hoarder Joe is an investor like any other.  He has no more obligation to buy coins than any other investor.  He has the right to decide when and how much to buy or sell, seeking maximum profit.   So, it does not make sense to demand that  miner Joe should hold more of the coins that he mines.

If miner Joe is now dumping coins that he mined months ago, he should not be citicized for that; he should be thanked for having retained them at the time, since by doing so he helped support the price at that time. 

[theblacksquid]

It's very refreshing to see some old-timers here share their experiences with the previous booms and busts the price went through. It is truly depressing that the price is falling right now, but as long as the BTC is worth something, I'm staying, sinking ship or not. (The value of the Blockchain itself is worth several times more than whatever highs the marketcap ever got)

[bf4btc]

Observe how pessimistic the newer members are compared to the elder members.

they are not pessimists. they live in reality. if the miners will stop the mining , there will be NO Bitcoin.  because in this scenario transaction confirmation would take days or weeks.

 Who will validate the transactions?

You're misinformed. Mining isn't going to stop because the price drops. It could drop to $10 per BTC and there'd still be plenty of hashing power to "validate" the transactions. There'd be many desperate and despondent miners, very angry miners, but the network will not suddenly stop because the price drops.

--snip--

This is incorrect. The miners have costs that are based in fiat, electricity. They need a way to pay for these costs, they use the bitcoin they mine. If the bitcoin they mine does not cover the electric costs then they will stop mining. Even if they plan to pay for their electric costs out of separate funds and to hodl the bitcoin they mine, they would still stop mining because they would be better off buying the bitcoin on an exchange

[MrTeal]

Observe how pessimistic the newer members are compared to the elder members.

they are not pessimists. they live in reality. if the miners will stop the mining , there will be NO Bitcoin.  because in this scenario transaction confirmation would take days or weeks.

 Who will validate the transactions?

You're misinformed. Mining isn't going to stop because the price drops. It could drop to $10 per BTC and there'd still be plenty of hashing power to "validate" the transactions. There'd be many desperate and despondent miners, very angry miners, but the network will not suddenly stop because the price drops.

--snip--

This is incorrect. The miners have costs that are based in fiat, electricity. They need a way to pay for these costs, they use the bitcoin they mine. If the bitcoin they mine does not cover the electric costs then they will stop mining. Even if they plan to pay for their electric costs out of separate funds and to hodl the bitcoin they mine, they would still stop mining because they would be better off buying the bitcoin on an exchange

That doesn't mean mining will stop, just that the network hashrate will go down. Transactions were validated just fine at 4B difficulty and 4M difficulty.

The only worrisome thing is then what happens to all the hashing power that gets turned off. If 1/2 the network drops out Bitcoin will still confirm just fine, but you now know there's the same amount of hashing power out there that's dark and is likely available for firesale prices.

[JorgeStolfi]

Mining isn't going to stop because the price drops. It could drop to $10 per BTC and there'd still be plenty of hashing power to "validate" the transactions.

This is incorrect. The miners have costs that are based in fiat, electricity. They need a way to pay for these costs, they use the bitcoin they mine. If the bitcoin they mine does not cover the electric costs then they will stop mining. Even if they plan to pay for their electric costs out of separate funds and to hodl the bitcoin they mine, they would still stop mining because they would be better off buying the bitcoin on an exchange

If the price were 10 $/BTC (as it was a couple of years ago), the miners as a whole would receive only 36'000 $/day.  At 0.10 $ per kWh (say), that could pay for 360'000 kWh per day, or 15'000 kW.

Therefore, in that situation, almost all of the current miners would have pulled the plug; but there will be still be the equivalent of 10'000 (say) ASIC rigs in use, each consuming 1 kW and doing 1 TH/s, and their owners together would make 12'000 $/day of profit.  The total network power would then be 10'000 TH/s, or 10 PH/s.  Which, surprise, is about 10$/220$ of the current network power.

[Flashman]

The only worrisome thing is then what happens to all the hashing power that gets turned off. If 1/2 the network drops out Bitcoin will still confirm just fine, but you now know there's the same amount of hashing power out there that's dark and is likely available for firesale prices.

Yes, we should make good efforts to keep track of as much of that as possible.

[bf4btc]

Mining isn't going to stop because the price drops. It could drop to $10 per BTC and there'd still be plenty of hashing power to "validate" the transactions.

This is incorrect. The miners have costs that are based in fiat, electricity. They need a way to pay for these costs, they use the bitcoin they mine. If the bitcoin they mine does not cover the electric costs then they will stop mining. Even if they plan to pay for their electric costs out of separate funds and to hodl the bitcoin they mine, they would still stop mining because they would be better off buying the bitcoin on an exchange

If the price were 10 $/BTC (as it was a couple of years ago), the miners as a whole would receive only 36'000 $/day.  At 0.10 $ per kWh (say), that could pay for 360'000 kWh per day, or 15'000 kW.

Therefore, in that situation, almost all of the current miners would have pulled the plug; but there will be still be the equivalent of 10'000 (say) ASIC rigs in use, each consuming 1 kW and doing 1 TH/s, and their owners together would make 12'000 $/day of profit.  The total network power would then be 10'000 TH/s, or 10 PH/s.  Which, surprise, is about 10$/220$ of the current network power.

It would take time for the miners to stop mining and when the hashrate would drop by that much then it would take a very long time for the next 2016 blocks to confirm.