Miners are killing bitcoin

[gkv9]

If you (OP) think miners are killing it, ask them to stop instead... Let's see how this Bitcoin Protocol works afterwards? Do you think that without miners, even a single block will get generated? And if that won't happen, how will you get your transaction show to the network and get confirmed? Maybe a few are interested in dumping as it has become non-profitable since the low price, but that doesn't mean that everyone's the same, a few dump, a few collect...

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[hdd3go]

Yes,miner selling coins is a factor that cause the price fall, But Bitcoin can't survive without miner that is the only way to "mint" coins.

Also, many miners have a full node running and that is the base installation of the Bitcoin network.

[sergio]

Yes,miner selling coins is a factor that cause the price fall, But Bitcoin can't survive without miner that is the only way to "mint" coins.

Also, many miners have a full node running and that is the base installation of the Bitcoin network.

miners in general are not killing bitcoin. It is centralized miners that do not give a shit about bitcoin which are killing it, such as BFL, KnC, Cointerra, etc.

Independent miners are a different story, most of them believe in the bitcoin economy, as proof when the block reward was 50BTC this was never a problem, and now that it is 25 BTC we have a problem.

The reason for the problem is that bitcoin mining is becoming centralized, and that is a very bad thing, small independent miners need some hardware vendor that does not mine for himself, and that believes in the bitcoin economy to provide open source hardware to only independent miners at low cost, otherwise bitcoin mining  will continue to get centralized which is a terrible thing.

In the bitcoin world:
centralization is your best enemy.
decentralization is your best friend.

[Gunther]

Why don't they just mine and hold? Man, must be great if you actually own 100k BTC after a year of mining. But no... dumping. Short sighted vision is what's killing Bitcoin.

[rax]

Why don't they just mine and hold? Man, must be great if you actually own 100k BTC after a year of mining. But no... dumping. Short sighted vision is what's killing Bitcoin.

Except that you must dump 'em if you've invested milions in hardware and have huge electricity bills to pay.

[mayax]

Why don't they just mine and hold? Man, must be great if you actually own 100k BTC after a year of mining. But no... dumping. Short sighted vision is what's killing Bitcoin.

a miner MUST change the hardware yearly if not often than that. how can he pay the bills?

in the near fuure, the mining will be only in China

[Flashman]

I still say that half the "problem" has been that we got onto 28nm ASICs too quickly. There was an unexpected oversupply of fab capacity in 2013. This lead to prices being slashed by half or a quarter, maybe 12 months before the next node or half node ramping up pushed prices down, as had been the case in the past.

I know we were behind the curve, for Moores Law, but, there wasn't expected to be enough VC or community money to catch up much before the 2016 reward halving.

What happened instead, with 28nm becoming unexpectedly cheap, was a stronger ASIC gold rush than might have been "organic" for bitcoin at the time. Many companies sprang up, and over-reached. This lead to relative oversupply, and thus prices attractive enough to attract huge commercial scale developments.

However, this might not have been all bad... since the innovative way Bitfury did 55nm, meant it competed well with most 28nm, so if it had not had that competition, we'd have a very pronounced monopoly of Bitfury hardware mining right now. However, BFL mayyyy have been able to do a 3rd or 4th revision of their 65nm, maybe even managed a 55nm shrink of it that was very short development time, and had that shipping from stock from early 2014, but the pressure and focus had switched to 28nm by mid 2013. Antminers would probably be about same proportion as now.

Anyway, this might be considered to give us 5x the hash we "should have had" by now, but it's not really that figure that counts, more the fact that it encouraged such overextension of commercial size mining ops and hardware investment. We might have had most of the same players, they'd be running 5x less hash, but they'd maybe only have half to a quarter as much debt to service. Bitcoin ASIC manufacturing might have become a more sustainable industry, rather than the apparent penis model, i.e. shoot your load and die.

[bornil267645]

Miners are the reason bitcoin are getting into the chain at the first place, how;s that killing, isn't that the opposite?

[Soros Shorts]

Miners are the reason bitcoin are getting into the chain at the first place, how;s that killing, isn't that the opposite?

The problem supposedly is that currently there are too many miners operating in marginally profitable conditions and allegedly dumping coins on the market.

Well the mining ecosystem was designed to be a closed-loop feedback system with an inherent lag. Anyone who has studied control engineering will understand what is happening now. Eventually some miners will bail out and close shop and there may be less dumping of coins. I say may, because I don't really believe it is the miners doing the dumping. I am a small miner myself, with just under 50 TH/s and I have not sold a single coin since November.

[BaselessBitcoin]

Miners are the reason bitcoin are getting into the chain at the first place, how;s that killing, isn't that the opposite?

The problem supposedly is that currently there are too many miners operating in marginally profitable conditions and allegedly dumping coins on the market.

Well the mining ecosystem was designed to be a closed-loop feedback system with an inherent lag. Anyone who has studied control engineering will understand what is happening now. Eventually some miners will bail out and close shop and there may be less dumping of coins. I say may, because I don't really believe it is the miners doing the dumping. I am a small miner myself, with just under 50 TH/s and I have not sold a single coin since November.

I think we will start seeing consolidation of mining from the data centers that can afford to operate under these conditions. As smaller miners and farms throw in the towel and sell their equipment I see big data centers taking over even more of the network without formal acquisitions. Smaller mining operations just can't function at a loss for so long. just my .02.

[spazzdla]

No. False design. Inflation. Miners can't change the number of coins they mine, not their fault at all.

You are a god damn fool.

These corporations are setting up shop pumping out more bitcoin than they even have a demand for.

Looks like this massive price deflation is going to kill them .

[tolip_wen]

I find the reaction from some folks when they realize that BTC is pure capitalism hilarious.

The good news is that ignorance can be cured with education.
The bad news is that ignorance is seldom the only issue.

The good, the bad, and the ugly.
Welcome to Earth!

YMMV

[JorgeStolfi]

Miners keep bitcoin & network running, without them bitcoin already dead by now
But, they kill bitcoin by sell their bitcoin so they can keep mining

So, i can say miners is like stabbing bitcoin from behind

A miner Joe who keeps some of his bitcoins can be seen as two persons in one.  During the day he is Joe the Hasher, who mines bitcoins and sells all of them, pays the bills, and pockets the profit in dollars.  When he gets home he becomes Joe the Investor, who may buy  back some of the coins with some of the profit that the Hasher made.

The point is that Joe the Investor is just like any other investor.  He will buy, hold, or sell by the same reasons that motivate any other investor.  He has no more moral obligation to buy than any other investor. 

So it does not make sense to demand that miners keep their coins, or to curse them for selling them.  It is their right to seek their profit according to their estimates of the future price, like any other person on the planet.

[Armadillo]

I think bitcoin is not being implemented more quickly because it is still somewhat complex to use it. Once software and platforms become as easy as using a dollar or credit card, the reduction in transaction costs will attract more users, especially for international transactions where costs are high. The execution of a simple to use multisig trustless transaction will make international purchases a reality but these things take time...always longer than you think. Until then the speculators will make this a roller coaster ride.

[mayax]

Miners are the reason bitcoin are getting into the chain at the first place, how;s that killing, isn't that the opposite?

The problem supposedly is that currently there are too many miners operating in marginally profitable conditions and allegedly dumping coins on the market.

Well the mining ecosystem was designed to be a closed-loop feedback system with an inherent lag. Anyone who has studied control engineering will understand what is happening now. Eventually some miners will bail out and close shop and there may be less dumping of coins. I say may, because I don't really believe it is the miners doing the dumping. I am a small miner myself, with just under 50 TH/s and I have not sold a single coin since November.

imagine that your are a miner with a lot of BTC and you close your shop. what will you do? will you keep the useless BTC or will you cash it out as soon as possible? Yes, you will cash it out because it's a about a lot of money. In end, the money are better in a bank then in a "cold storage" from where it can disappear overnight

[philiveyjr]

Miners are just keeping the price down until next halving.

brilliant design for a coins' economic fundamentals, isn't it?

It is very early in the coin's history.

Yeah It is still really early in coins history.!!