Well, I am all out, for good this time

[jasonjm]

bought bitcoin for 35 to 70, sold all on the way up between 380 and 500, was criticized big time on this forum for doing so, but that is what I did.

2nd time, bought bitcoin between 280 and 300, just sold it all again for gold, silver and platinum, for approx 10% to 15% loss.

I am done with bitcoin - done! I will never hold bitcoins again, will only buy them to use immediately to pay for items. OK I lie, I held 2 bitcoins, if bitcoin goes to 10 000, it will make up for the $20 000 loss I just took, and I will exit at breakeven.

On a parting note, here are my gripes with bitcoin

1) by far the biggest gripe I have is that bitcoin is just full of scammers and shitbags. Exchanges stealing money, miners stealing money, hackers stealing money, it never ends. When you are trying to sell the general public on a pretty complicated scary concept, and all they are reading is scam this, thief that, you are done, finished, dead in the water. The PR damage has been done.

2) the winklevoss ETF fund is just too much of a risk for me to try hold bitcoin through. if this thing gets denied, bitcoin will flash crash. That winklevoss ETF is the pie in the sky everyone is hoping for so they can dump their coins onto the general public. If it doesn't get approved, a lot of people will dump anyways. The fact that since mtgox there are just more and more bitcoin scams is not good for the pending ETF approval in my opinion.

3) liquidity is horrible, really horrible. there are 14 million coins, but selling or buying 100 000 at once on any exchange will pretty much blow up that exchange to zero or infinity. 100 000 is not even 1%

4) store of value? what store of value, no one can seriously think people would invest life savings in bitcoin when it moves 10% in a day, OFTEN. this is linked to point 3.

5) technological challenges, such as miners 51%, low transactions per second, infighting among developers / community (the most scary one to me), and many more I do not want to get into.

6) dying into obscurity. The increase in traffic being seen is just people slowly realizing they better cash out is my guess. But I have no heard one person on the street mention bitcoin once in the last 2 months. Plus a good indicator is that during crashes or spikes on BTC-E the message section would be so busy you could not even read the scroll was so fast. Now? its dead. This is the point that really got me to dump, if interest is dying amongst bitcoin traders / holders / enthusiasts, how the hell will the public get excited.

7) I see no bitcoin killer app, there has been enough time for one, and there is not one.

why would someone buy something (legal) with bitcoin instead of a credit card? offers zero benefits, only downside.


I am not saying bitcoin is going to zero, for all I know it goes to $1000 or $10 000 or $1, I have no idea. But I don't feel good about bitcoin anymore.

[samson]

A good crash back to low double digits will shake a lot of speculators out.

It was fun 2 years ago, maybe we get to repeat that whole process again.

[poncho32]

I'm wondering how low it will go.

[jasonjm]

jeebus, its down 6% since I dumped.

I am too jaded man

the ONLY scenario I can possibly see myself buying in is as follows (the perfect storm in a teacup).

1) bitcoin drops sub 100, preferably much more than sub 100.

2) while its down here, the winklevoss ETF gets full approval to list on nasdaq



and even then I will be buying only to dump.

other than that fairytale scenario, this is it for me.

[sgbett]

..I held 2 bitcoins, if bitcoin goes to 10 000...

welcome to the church of HODL

[poncho32]

..I held 2 bitcoins, if bitcoin goes to 10 000...

welcome to the church of HODL

Have you dumped any bitcoins, and are you holding any?

[jasonjm]

..I held 2 bitcoins, if bitcoin goes to 10 000...

welcome to the church of HODL

hahahaha! well, after dumping 100s of BTC, if I am in the church with just 2 BTC, I must be a curtain, or maybe a tile or something, definitely not anything important.


as for where BTC will go to the other poster, if anyone here thinks they can tell you, they are lying. We could go to zero or $10 000, or anything inbetween.

[BitCoinNutJob]

bought bitcoin for 35 to 70, sold all on the way up between 380 and 500, was criticized big time on this forum for doing so, but that is what I did.

2nd time, bought bitcoin between 280 and 300, just sold it all again for gold, silver and platinum, for approx 10% to 15% loss.

I am done with bitcoin - done! I will never hold bitcoins again, will only buy them to use immediately to pay for items. OK I lie, I held 2 bitcoins, if bitcoin goes to 10 000, it will make up for the $20 000 loss I just took, and I will exit at breakeven.

On a parting note, here are my gripes with bitcoin

1) by far the biggest gripe I have is that bitcoin is just full of scammers and shitbags. Exchanges stealing money, miners stealing money, hackers stealing money, it never ends. When you are trying to sell the general public on a pretty complicated scary concept, and all they are reading is scam this, thief that, you are done, finished, dead in the water. The PR damage has been done.

2) the winklevoss ETF fund is just too much of a risk for me to try hold bitcoin through. if this thing gets denied, bitcoin will flash crash. That winklevoss ETF is the pie in the sky everyone is hoping for so they can dump their coins onto the general public. If it doesn't get approved, a lot of people will dump anyways. The fact that since mtgox there are just more and more bitcoin scams is not good for the pending ETF approval in my opinion.

3) liquidity is horrible, really horrible. there are 14 million coins, but selling or buying 100 000 at once on any exchange will pretty much blow up that exchange to zero or infinity. 100 000 is not even 1%

4) store of value? what store of value, no one can seriously think people would invest life savings in bitcoin when it moves 10% in a day, OFTEN. this is linked to point 3.

5) technological challenges, such as miners 51%, low transactions per second, infighting among developers / community (the most scary one to me), and many more I do not want to get into.

6) dying into obscurity. The increase in traffic being seen is just people slowly realizing they better cash out is my guess. But I have no heard one person on the street mention bitcoin once in the last 2 months. Plus a good indicator is that during crashes or spikes on BTC-E the message section would be so busy you could not even read the scroll was so fast. Now? its dead. This is the point that really got me to dump, if interest is dying amongst bitcoin traders / holders / enthusiasts, how the hell will the public get excited.

7) I see no bitcoin killer app, there has been enough time for one, and there is not one.

why would someone buy something (legal) with bitcoin instead of a credit card? offers zero benefits, only downside.


I am not saying bitcoin is going to zero, for all I know it goes to $1000 or $10 000 or $1, I have no idea. But I don't feel good about bitcoin anymore.

so you are posting this to tell us because you want to buy back at even cheaper price?

[Milotyc]

liquidity is horrible, really horrible. there are 14 million coins, but selling or buying 100 000 at once on any exchange will pretty much blow up that exchange to zero or infinity. 100 000 is not even 1%

store of value? what store of value, no one can seriously think people would invest life savings in bitcoin when it moves 10% in a day, OFTEN. this is linked to point 3.

if interest is dying amongst bitcoin traders / holders / enthusiasts, how the hell will the public get excited.

why would someone buy something (legal) with bitcoin instead of a credit card? offers zero benefits, only downside.

See what happens if you sell 1% of all dollars at once on any exchange, will be fun.

Yes, people actually do invest their live savings into btc.

Getting the public excited has nothing to do with traders (speculative trading actually does the opposite).

It offers many benefits, the most important one being privacy.

[jasonjm]

I wrote out the ONLY scenario in which I will buy back in, and its a pretty unlikely scenario.

[Elwar]

Bitcoin is not an investment. It is a currency.

Good luck buying a plane ticket or booking a hotel room online using your gold and silver.

[BitCoinNutJob]

I wrote out the ONLY scenario in which I will buy back in, and its a pretty unlikely scenario.

Have you followed some of the chart guys explanations? this price drop was predicted and also a bull run sometime after.  Seems like a bad time to sell and be out for good.

[xDan]

> I see no bitcoin killer app, there has been enough time for one, and there is not one.
Check out the "project development" forum sometime. I see many seeds planted. These things can take years to gain in popularity, though.

> why would someone buy something (legal) with bitcoin instead of a credit card? offers zero benefits, only downside.
We must assume there exist reasons, because people do. Blind cultism, perhaps?

See you in five years.

[inca]

Yes the volatility is absolutely insane. Would be nice if there were some upward volatility.

You aren't all out as you still hold 2 bitcoins

[jasonjm]

if I need to buy a plane ticket using bitcoin, I can get the coins instantly on coinbase, and pay

more importantly why wouldn't I use my amex platinum to buy the ticket, which gives me points, protection in case the airline screws me, plus all sorts of baggage and flight delay protection?

[Milotyc]

Bitcoin is not an investment. It is a currency.

Good luck buying a plane ticket or booking a hotel room online using your gold and silver.

One can invest in a currency, making it an investment.

[jasonjm]

there are a lot of bitcoins on the move, the blockchain is taking forever to give confirmations

[poncho32]

there are a lot of bitcoins on the move, the blockchain is taking forever to give confirmations

The miners are probably giving up so it will take ages to find each block

[jasonjm]

I guess it is possible, I am not a miner and I gave up. Gnite all and good luck to all BTC longs.

[Elwar]

if I need to buy a plane ticket using bitcoin, I can get the coins instantly on coinbase, and pay

more importantly why wouldn't I use my amex platinum to buy the ticket, which gives me points, protection in case the airline screws me, plus all sorts of baggage and flight delay protection?

The Platinum card, which costs $150 per year in fees. If you spend $8k per year you'll get a free plane ticket in 3 years. That only costs $450. And if you screw up (like the average household with over $2k in credit card balance) you are hit with 18% in fees.

I'm done with playing that game. Give me real money and no banks/credit cards.

[bigtimespaghetti]

if I need to buy a plane ticket using bitcoin, I can get the coins instantly on coinbase, and pay

more importantly why wouldn't I use my amex platinum to buy the ticket, which gives me points, protection in case the airline screws me, plus all sorts of baggage and flight delay protection?

The Platinum card, which costs $150 per year in fees. If you spend $8k per year you'll get a free plane ticket in 3 years. That only costs $450. And if you screw up (like the average household with over $2k in credit card balance) you are hit with 18% in fees.

I'm done with playing that game. Give me real money and no banks/credit cards.

I agree- debt can be bad. But in my experience most of the public prefer peaceful slavery to dangerous freedom. That goes for the dumbos chained to credit card debt too. Even if we went to sounder money- there will always be fools and people willing to risk providing services to them.

[kwukduck]

k bai
tnx for the cheap coins.

[Elwar]

I will just step in to post that the price of bitcoins when OP got out is hovering around $230.

 

[jasonjm]

op got out at exactly 248, and liquidity is so poor my little sell moved bitcoin to 246

[Stratobitz]

if I need to buy a plane ticket using bitcoin, I can get the coins instantly on coinbase, and pay

more importantly why wouldn't I use my amex platinum to buy the ticket, which gives me points, protection in case the airline screws me, plus all sorts of baggage and flight delay protection?

The Platinum card, which costs $150 per year in fees. If you spend $8k per year you'll get a free plane ticket in 3 years. That only costs $450. And if you screw up (like the average household with over $2k in credit card balance) you are hit with 18% in fees.

I'm done with playing that game. Give me real money and no banks/credit cards.

The Amex Platinum is $450 a year. But you get a lot more than points. Well worth it in my opinion for the benefits. But you wont get an Amex platinum spending $8000 a year. I wasn't offered it until I consistently hit $10,000 a month in spending.  I can get 2 Round Trip Air France First Class Tickets on the A380 from Nyc to Paris for 500,000 points. Those tickets would cost $45,000 in cash.

That said, Ill fork up the points and take my girl on a trip first class. But 45k in cash? No thanks.

Strato

[Elwar]

if I need to buy a plane ticket using bitcoin, I can get the coins instantly on coinbase, and pay

more importantly why wouldn't I use my amex platinum to buy the ticket, which gives me points, protection in case the airline screws me, plus all sorts of baggage and flight delay protection?

The Platinum card, which costs $150 per year in fees. If you spend $8k per year you'll get a free plane ticket in 3 years. That only costs $450. And if you screw up (like the average household with over $2k in credit card balance) you are hit with 18% in fees.

I'm done with playing that game. Give me real money and no banks/credit cards.

The Amex Platinum is $450 a year. But you get a lot more than points. Well worth it in my opinion for the benefits. But you wont get an Amex platinum spending $8000 a year. I wasn't offered it until I consistently hit $10,000 a month in spending.

Strato

Your Amex Platinum must be different than mine then. I've had it for over almost 2 decades so maybe I was grandfathered in at a better rate. I still plan on dropping it though.

[podyx]

I fail to see how the dollar is different. If that's what you're going for.

It can fluctuates 10-20% yearly with a steady 5% inflationary rate each year.
Furthermore, if the top 1% decides to cash, everybody with USD will be done for. Because there is no paper left. And the electronic USD numbers are backed by it, believe it or not. Not a very stable and liquid currency if one family (Rothschilds) can't get their wealth out in said currency without the whole world going into panic mode.

[Stratobitz]

if I need to buy a plane ticket using bitcoin, I can get the coins instantly on coinbase, and pay

more importantly why wouldn't I use my amex platinum to buy the ticket, which gives me points, protection in case the airline screws me, plus all sorts of baggage and flight delay protection?

The Platinum card, which costs $150 per year in fees. If you spend $8k per year you'll get a free plane ticket in 3 years. That only costs $450. And if you screw up (like the average household with over $2k in credit card balance) you are hit with 18% in fees.

I'm done with playing that game. Give me real money and no banks/credit cards.

The Amex Platinum is $450 a year. But you get a lot more than points. Well worth it in my opinion for the benefits. But you wont get an Amex platinum spending $8000 a year. I wasn't offered it until I consistently hit $10,000 a month in spending.

Strato

Your Amex Platinum must be different than mine then. I've had it for over almost 2 decades so maybe I was grandfathered in at a better rate. I still plan on dropping it though.

Possible. I got my platinum about 5 years ago. They lock your rates.

I was given a "Charter" Amex Plum Card - only 2500 Charter Cards were issued. 2% Cash Back on all purchases. Forever.

That said I still put most of my big purchases on the Platinum.

Strato

[jasonjm]

amex platinum is best card, and I get my $450 fee a year waved (spend a lot).

I bought 3 international tickets on  mexicana, and they went bankrupt 6 months later but before I took my flight.

Amex refunded me every cent of those 3 tickets, no questions asked.

when i tried getting into mining, when I was new to bitcoin, and butterfly labs and paypal screwed me out of the $30 000 order I had placed, amex refunded me the cash, no questions asked.

100 000 points is usually an international business air ticket on most airlines during their non peak miles times, so even at 8000 points a month, thats 1 ticket per year, value anywhere from $3000 to $5000 depending on the route.

so depending on smart you are, you are actually earning 3 to 5% back on all spending.

plus you do have the option of paying your bill on time with no fees.

so again, why exactly would I use bitcoin to buy anything legal, just one compelling reason, please.....

[jasonjm]

I fail to see how the dollar is different. If that's what you're going for.

It can fluctuates 10-20% yearly with a steady 5% inflationary rate each year.
Furthermore, if the top 1% decides to cash, everybody with USD will be done for. Because there is no paper left. And the electronic USD numbers are backed by it, believe it or not. Not a very stable and liquid currency if one family (Rothschilds) can't get their wealth out in said currency without the whole world going into panic mode.

because if you are looking for a trustworthy alternative store of value that has a proven track record, with much less risk, its not bitcoin, its gold and platinum in my opinion.

[Stratobitz]

amex platinum is best card, and I get my $450 fee a year waved (spend a lot).

I bought 3 international tickets on  mexicana, and they went bankrupt 6 months later but before I took my flight.

Amex refunded me every cent of those 3 tickets, no questions asked.

100 000 points is usually an international business air ticket on most airlines during their non peak miles times, so even at 8000 points a month, thats 1 ticket per year, value anywhere from $3000 to $5000 depending on the route.

so depending on smart you are, you are actually earning 3 to 5% back on all spending.

plus you do have the option of paying your bill on time with no fees.

so again, why exactly would I use bitcoin to buy anything legal, just one compelling reason, please.....

Ive never asked to have the fee comped. Im sure they would if I asked based on my spending patterns. The points are just one benefit. I cant even spend the points I have. Not enough time to travel that often. 

Lounge access, concierge, $10,000 per item 90 day loss/break insurance, $200 baggage fee credits, total purchase protection, dedicated account rep, no wait time to talk, its the card I use 90% of the time.

Strato

[Stratobitz]

I fail to see how the dollar is different. If that's what you're going for.

It can fluctuates 10-20% yearly with a steady 5% inflationary rate each year.
Furthermore, if the top 1% decides to cash, everybody with USD will be done for. Because there is no paper left. And the electronic USD numbers are backed by it, believe it or not. Not a very stable and liquid currency if one family (Rothschilds) can't get their wealth out in said currency without the whole world going into panic mode.

because if you are looking for a trustworthy alternative store of value that has a proven track record, with much less risk, its not bitcoin, its gold and platinum in my opinion.

Silver is looking like a good bet right now.

[jasonjm]

problem with silver is storage, its too damn big.

[gizmoh]

so again, why exactly would I use bitcoin to buy anything legal, just one compelling reason, please.....

Btc is limited in edition. Op capitulated by selling at an all time low since Nov 2013!

[spazzdla]

A good crash back to low double digits will shake a lot of speculators out.

It was fun 2 years ago, maybe we get to repeat that whole process again.

This is exactly what I am thinking.

Still way WAY to many bulls on this forum.

[Stratobitz]

problem with silver is storage, its too damn big.

If youre holding the actual coins yes. I have 2 monster boxes of eagles. 70 Lbs.

But trading futures,,,

Strato

[aztecminer]

problem with silver is storage, its too damn big.

true but it will likely make a bigger move too .

[aztecminer]

so again, why exactly would I use bitcoin to buy anything legal, just one compelling reason, please.....

Btc is limited in edition. Op capitulated by selling at an all time low since Nov 2013!

buy high sell low.

[jasonjm]

so again, why exactly would I use bitcoin to buy anything legal, just one compelling reason, please.....

Btc is limited in edition. Op capitulated by selling at an all time low since Nov 2013!

That isn't a reason,  it's just an observation.

Maybe bitcoin does go to 10 000, I don't know.  But I am not comfortable holding bitcoin,  the scammers and dirt bags in the bitcoin ecosystem are no good. I got no issues saying I sold and sold at a loss this time around.

Turns out the entire price action of bitcoin might have been a scam since day one (Mtgox bots).

Only reason anyone here holds bitcoin now is dreams of riches.

[Elwar]

so again, why exactly would I use bitcoin to buy anything legal, just one compelling reason, please.....

If you ever....ever...buy anything on Amazon, whether you like Bitcoin or not, getting 20-30% off on Amazon purchases through Purse is quite nice.

[twiifm]

I think you made a wise move op.

[jasonjm]

down more than 10% since i bailed out.

I really think we will see bitcoin under $100 before winkels ETF

if winklevoss ETF is not approved, I think we see under $10 by 2016

mark this thread

[Morecoin Freeman]

Putting everything in perspective OP must have sold near the bottom this time.

[Morecoin Freeman]

Maybe it is a matter of preference but from my risk/reward perspective selling at ~$200 is not the right decision.
With bitcoin hype at an all time low and $0 being the absolute bottom we literally can't go that much lower.

[jasonjm]

Maybe it is a matter of preference but from my risk/reward perspective selling at ~$200 is not the right decision.
With bitcoin hype at an all time low and $0 being the absolute bottom we literally can't go that much lower.

$0 being the bottom might not bother you, or others on this board, but it bothers me greatly.

[tss]

2) the winklevoss ETF fund is just too much of a risk for me to try hold bitcoin through. if this thing gets denied, bitcoin will flash crash. That winklevoss ETF is the pie in the sky everyone is hoping for so they can dump their coins onto the general public. If it doesn't get approved, a lot of people will dump anyways. The fact that since mtgox there are just more and more bitcoin scams is not good for the pending ETF approval in my opinion.

i don't see how the etf will affect any pricing.  all the twins want is to create their fund.  they wont be buying more coin.. just selling shares of their own to the public on nasdaq.  please correct me if i am mistaken.

[jasonjm]

you are gravely mistaken

the fund was the vehicle with which the whales (like the winkles) were going to dump their bitcoins onto the general public.

right now if you need to sell 100 000 bitcoins you will destroy the price.

but with wallstreet money flowing in, you could easily dump 5 000 a day and still have BTC price fly upwards.

if that ETF is not approved, a LOT of holders are going to see their golden goose slaughtered, and cut and run immediately.

my prediction? if winkle ETF is denied, within 7 days bitcoin price drops at least 50% from day of denial, within 30 days 75%

bitcoin now down almost 20% from where i cut and ran, like a girl flapping my arms, screaming the sky is falling.

[ramkumar]

i don't think wallstreet or microsoft will invest in bitcoin 

[jasonjm]

wall street will not invest in bitcoin

nor will microsoft

I never said that so I agree with you.

what i said is if that winkle ETF went live, average joe will try a little bitcoin, it will move up, then the MOMO stock chasers will pile on, the faster it moved up, the more it would be chased, and we all know when bitcoin moves up it flies, as there is no liquidity. So it would have the potential to rocket ship once listed on Nasdaq.

[twiifm]

wall street will not invest in bitcoin

nor will microsoft

I never said that so I agree with you.

what i said is if that winkle ETF went live, average joe will try a little bitcoin, it will move up, then the MOMO stock chasers will pile on, the faster it moved up, the more it would be chased, and we all know when bitcoin moves up it flies, as there is no liquidity. So it would have the potential to rocket ship once listed on Nasdaq.

very arrogant to call others "average joe".  If ETF went live the pro traders will hop on the short wagon and short the f**K out of bitcoin.  That you can be sure.  Wall Street is infested w sharks not derp derp traders typical of bitcoin

[jasonjm]

anyone who buys their first bitcoin through an ETF this late in the game is 100% average joe, whether you like the term or not. Because it offends you, I will now refer to them as late adopters.

second, if you ever watched a new ETF launch, especially a low float one like winkle would be, it is usually difficult to obtain the shares to short, so even if the pros would love to short, they usually have to wait until an options market is established on the new security.

third, you cannot short more than the float, so if people are buying like crazy, the price can explode as you get a short squeeze, making it go even higher than it normally would.

and finally yes if bitcoin skyrocketed, the bigger wall street sharks would come out and eventually destroy it, but my guess is not before it has that one moon shot.