Margin Trading Exchanges?

[SebastianJu]

I wanted to find out which exchanges offer margin trading. Bitfinex seems to be the best choice, because they look relatively safe. But then there is kraken which claimed margin trading, though they did cancel it?
I found okcoin.com and okcoin.cn? too.

I have read of exchanges offering leverage of 50:1 or even 100:1 too. Compared to the 5:1, which bitfinex offers, it sounds very much. What kind of exchanges offer this leverage? At least, if not properly secured, this could bring big problems with these kind of levers. I mean big amounts of value can vanish and being created this way.

[marcotheminer]

Check out btc.sx (if you want a referral link let me know)

[SebastianJu]

Check out btc.sx (if you want a referral link let me know)

Interesting but i think the fee is very high. A multiple of the fee of bitfinex. The thing with margin trading is that you have an amount of money you own and a multiple you trade with. You pay fee on the traded multiple volume you borrowed, so it adds up. And you practically pay it from the money you own. So i think it will be a bit hard to make a profit because one needs bigger changes in price. I might be wrong. I only noticed that margin trading on bitfinex already is hard because of this.

[SebastianJu]

By investigating the topic Bitcoin margin trading with different leverage levels i found a couple of places where this is possible. Maybe someone can add data that i couldnt find and warn if one of the exchanges is dangerous.

Code:

URL		Type	Max Leverage	Fees		Regulated	Risk?		Social Trading
market.com	CFD	20:1		No Fee?		Yes		Manipulation	Yes
btcoracle.com	Betting	1.1:1-2:1	Odds edge	No?				A little bit
okcoin.cn/.com	Margin	20:1		0.2-0.1%
			40:1 (VIP)	
796.com		Margin	50:1		0.03%
btc-e.com	CFD?	3:1		0.2%
btc.sx		Margin	10:1		0.48%
btcchina.com	Margin	3:1		0%?		No?
bitfinex.com	Margin	3.3:1		0.2-0%
bitvc.com(huobi)CFD	20:1		0.03%				Socialisation
		Margin	2:1		
orderbook.net?	
fxopen.com	CFD	3:1		No Fee?
plus500.com	CFD	17:1		No Fee?		Yes?		Manipulation
ig.com		CFD	13.3:1		No Fee?				Manipulation
bitmex.com	CFD	10:1		0.02%
btcsolutions.ca		8:1
coinut.com				Free

Thats what i found. I believe huobi doesnt trade CFDs directly but through bitvc.com that they own. So far margin trading is hard because of the fees, when trading short time. So btcchina.com looks interesting there. 796.com looks most interesting regarding its high leverage and low fee too.

Any notes?

[damiano]

I love Okcoin futures.  It's the best one I've found.  The iOS app makes trading so simple ( I use it exclusively )

20:1 is crazy but I have a good method/strategy

[SebastianJu]

I love Okcoin futures.  It's the best one I've found.  The iOS app makes trading so simple ( I use it exclusively )

20:1 is crazy but I have a good method/strategy

Care to explain?

The fee sounds high like on bitfinex. I found that its hard on bitfinex because you have to fight the fee first until you get into the positives. So you always have a disadvantage. I hoped its better on other exchanges with lower fees.

How do you handle stop losses? Avoiding flash trading and finding real wrong decisions is a not so easy part i think.

I think this thread should be moved to trading discussion.

[damiano]

I love Okcoin futures.  It's the best one I've found.  The iOS app makes trading so simple ( I use it exclusively )

20:1 is crazy but I have a good method/strategy

Care to explain?

The fee sounds high like on bitfinex. I found that its hard on bitfinex because you have to fight the fee first until you get into the positives. So you always have a disadvantage. I hoped its better on other exchanges with lower fees.

How do you handle stop losses? Avoiding flash trading and finding real wrong decisions is a not so easy part i think.

I think this thread should be moved to trading discussion.

I dontt use stop losses,  they are good at fishing them out and triggering them.  With 20:1 futures your fee is already paid when you purchase the contract so that's it, (margin positions are different). Shitty thing is with 20:1 your liquidation price is a $10 swing.  With that being said I always build my positions slow at diff price points, continuously adding. 

[SebastianJu]

I love Okcoin futures.  It's the best one I've found.  The iOS app makes trading so simple ( I use it exclusively )

20:1 is crazy but I have a good method/strategy

Care to explain?

The fee sounds high like on bitfinex. I found that its hard on bitfinex because you have to fight the fee first until you get into the positives. So you always have a disadvantage. I hoped its better on other exchanges with lower fees.

How do you handle stop losses? Avoiding flash trading and finding real wrong decisions is a not so easy part i think.

I think this thread should be moved to trading discussion.

I dontt use stop losses,  they are good at fishing them out and triggering them.  With 20:1 futures your fee is already paid when you purchase the contract so that's it, (margin positions are different). Shitty thing is with 20:1 your liquidation price is a $10 swing.  With that being said I always build my positions slow at diff price points, continuously adding.  

So your risk strategy is "betting" a small amount only each time? Which percent of your total amount of available money you set?

What does the fee is paid already mean? The 0.2% is paid one time only for the leveraged amount of money? Looks like i have to change okcoin then to CFD right?

[damiano]

I love Okcoin futures.  It's the best one I've found.  The iOS app makes trading so simple ( I use it exclusively )

20:1 is crazy but I have a good method/strategy

Care to explain?

The fee sounds high like on bitfinex. I found that its hard on bitfinex because you have to fight the fee first until you get into the positives. So you always have a disadvantage. I hoped its better on other exchanges with lower fees.

How do you handle stop losses? Avoiding flash trading and finding real wrong decisions is a not so easy part i think.

I think this thread should be moved to trading discussion.

I dontt use stop losses,  they are good at fishing them out and triggering them.  With 20:1 futures your fee is already paid when you purchase the contract so that's it, (margin positions are different). Shitty thing is with 20:1 your liquidation price is a $10 swing.  With that being said I always build my positions slow at diff price points, continuously adding.  

So your risk strategy is "betting" a small amount only each time? Which percent of your total amount of available money you set?

What does the fee is paid already mean? The 0.2% is paid one time only for the leveraged amount of money? Looks like i have to change okcoin then to CFD right?

I build my positions slowly to prevent a margin call.  I never go all in with 2 orders, that is what I have learned in the past from mistakes.  I usually fill orders 10-15% at a time,  but there are exceptions such as that failed dump that happeneds this past Wednesday which I knew it wouldn't go much lower, so I grabbed 400 contracts at 213 and had another order of 200 @ 204 (I knew there was no way it would go lower judging by the volume and no panic) so the risk was worth it.

I just checked log history and it's about 396 santoshi to open up a contract of 3

I usually have about 4-5 orders filled before the market swings and I take profit.  I'm ok with a 30-40% profit

Coinbase pump was epic for me,  rode it from 223 up to 294 

[MasterYii]

are you referring to the exchanges like bitstamp?

[SebastianJu]

I love Okcoin futures.  It's the best one I've found.  The iOS app makes trading so simple ( I use it exclusively )

20:1 is crazy but I have a good method/strategy

Care to explain?

The fee sounds high like on bitfinex. I found that its hard on bitfinex because you have to fight the fee first until you get into the positives. So you always have a disadvantage. I hoped its better on other exchanges with lower fees.

How do you handle stop losses? Avoiding flash trading and finding real wrong decisions is a not so easy part i think.

I think this thread should be moved to trading discussion.

I dontt use stop losses,  they are good at fishing them out and triggering them.  With 20:1 futures your fee is already paid when you purchase the contract so that's it, (margin positions are different). Shitty thing is with 20:1 your liquidation price is a $10 swing.  With that being said I always build my positions slow at diff price points, continuously adding.  

So your risk strategy is "betting" a small amount only each time? Which percent of your total amount of available money you set?

What does the fee is paid already mean? The 0.2% is paid one time only for the leveraged amount of money? Looks like i have to change okcoin then to CFD right?

I build my positions slowly to prevent a margin call.  I never go all in with 2 orders, that is what I have learned in the past from mistakes.  I usually fill orders 10-15% at a time,  but there are exceptions such as that failed dump that happeneds this past Wednesday which I knew it wouldn't go much lower, so I grabbed 400 contracts at 213 and had another order of 200 @ 204 (I knew there was no way it would go lower judging by the volume and no panic) so the risk was worth it.

I just checked log history and it's about 396 santoshi to open up a contract of 3

I usually have about 4-5 orders filled before the market swings and I take profit.  I'm ok with a 30-40% profit

Coinbase pump was epic for me,  rode it from 223 up to 294 

Did you know about coinbase pump before? I have read that its important to check the news, mainly coming from china. Only thing is that i dont find a reliable place, where i could find the news that could change prices, early enough.

are you referring to the exchanges like bitstamp?

In general yes, though its a special case because its possible here to earn money when trading against a rising bitcoin price or against a falling bitcoin price. On top you can bet more money than you have. That means higher risk but possible higher return too. I would not suggest trading it before you really learned without risking money since its risky.

[damiano]

I love Okcoin futures.  It's the best one I've found.  The iOS app makes trading so simple ( I use it exclusively )

20:1 is crazy but I have a good method/strategy

Care to explain?

The fee sounds high like on bitfinex. I found that its hard on bitfinex because you have to fight the fee first until you get into the positives. So you always have a disadvantage. I hoped its better on other exchanges with lower fees.

How do you handle stop losses? Avoiding flash trading and finding real wrong decisions is a not so easy part i think.

I think this thread should be moved to trading discussion.

I dontt use stop losses,  they are good at fishing them out and triggering them.  With 20:1 futures your fee is already paid when you purchase the contract so that's it, (margin positions are different). Shitty thing is with 20:1 your liquidation price is a $10 swing.  With that being said I always build my positions slow at diff price points, continuously adding.  

So your risk strategy is "betting" a small amount only each time? Which percent of your total amount of available money you set?

What does the fee is paid already mean? The 0.2% is paid one time only for the leveraged amount of money? Looks like i have to change okcoin then to CFD right?

I build my positions slowly to prevent a margin call.  I never go all in with 2 orders, that is what I have learned in the past from mistakes.  I usually fill orders 10-15% at a time,  but there are exceptions such as that failed dump that happeneds this past Wednesday which I knew it wouldn't go much lower, so I grabbed 400 contracts at 213 and had another order of 200 @ 204 (I knew there was no way it would go lower judging by the volume and no panic) so the risk was worth it.

I just checked log history and it's about 396 santoshi to open up a contract of 3

I usually have about 4-5 orders filled before the market swings and I take profit.  I'm ok with a 30-40% profit

Coinbase pump was epic for me,  rode it from 223 up to 294 

Did you know about coinbase pump before? I have read that its important to check the news, mainly coming from china. Only thing is that i dont find a reliable place, where i could find the news that could change prices, early enough.

are you referring to the exchanges like bitstamp?

In general yes, though its a special case because its possible here to earn money when trading against a rising bitcoin price or against a falling bitcoin price. On top you can bet more money than you have. That means higher risk but possible higher return too. I would not suggest trading it before you really learned without risking money since its risky.

I saw the Coinbase news, I didn't think it was gonna pump as hard as it did

[SebastianJu]

On okcoin.cn there is the tab Trade-Margin. Thats the same on okcoin.com. This is only for lending and for borrowing coins or fiat? Though i dont see a checkbox to change if you want to borrow or to lend.
Thats only for manual margin trading and okcoin only allows margins up to VIP-Level, from the start 2x, right?

The interesting thing is futures, though you can chose a high leverage there because okcoin needs to manipulate because its their own money, not other users money. Otherwise, they will lose money if more than half of the trader win.

And okcoin.cn has no own futures, one trades on okcoin.com then?

I think ill try 792.com first since their fees are low and i had the biggest problems with the fees on bitfinex.

damiano... the fee for CFDs on okcoin is paid once only? But its not 0.03% for a whole cycle like with 792.com right?

[damiano]

On okcoin.cn there is the tab Trade-Margin. Thats the same on okcoin.com. This is only for lending and for borrowing coins or fiat? Though i dont see a checkbox to change if you want to borrow or to lend.
Thats only for manual margin trading and okcoin only allows margins up to VIP-Level, from the start 2x, right?

The interesting thing is futures, though you can chose a high leverage there because okcoin needs to manipulate because its their own money, not other users money. Otherwise, they will lose money if more than half of the trader win.

And okcoin.cn has no own futures, one trades on okcoin.com then?

I think ill try 792.com first since their fees are low and i had the biggest problems with the fees on bitfinex.

damiano... the fee for CFDs on okcoin is paid once only? But its not 0.03% for a whole cycle like with 792.com right?

Futures fee's are paid when you open up the contract.

[SebastianJu]

On okcoin.cn there is the tab Trade-Margin. Thats the same on okcoin.com. This is only for lending and for borrowing coins or fiat? Though i dont see a checkbox to change if you want to borrow or to lend.
Thats only for manual margin trading and okcoin only allows margins up to VIP-Level, from the start 2x, right?

The interesting thing is futures, though you can chose a high leverage there because okcoin needs to manipulate because its their own money, not other users money. Otherwise, they will lose money if more than half of the trader win.

And okcoin.cn has no own futures, one trades on okcoin.com then?

I think ill try 792.com first since their fees are low and i had the biggest problems with the fees on bitfinex.

damiano... the fee for CFDs on okcoin is paid once only? But its not 0.03% for a whole cycle like with 792.com right?

Futures fee's are paid when you open up the contract.

It looks like its the same on 796.com. So the only thing to overcome then is the bid spread when taking out the direction the market is moving as a 50:50 bet.

[GermanGiant]

May I know a bit more details about this Margin Trading functionality ? What does it do exactly ?

[SebastianJu]

May I know a bit more details about this Margin Trading functionality ? What does it do exactly ?

Its a process of lending money for being able to trade with more money than you have. You can lend bitcoins, sell them and buy them back later to give them back. If the price of bitcoins went down in the meanwhile then you have a profit.

You really should read and learn ALOT before trying because if you arent very safe about it its a sure way to lose money.

[Nrcewker]

you need a forex platform. 500:1 is common

[SebastianJu]

you need a forex platform. 500:1 is common

500:1?  That would need a very very small flash could wipe out your investment instantly. Though it sounds interesting. Was this a typo or do you know an exchange where to trade that leverage?

Something i found not good at 796 is that you only can set a stop loss for leverages of 20:1, not for 50:1. I dont know whats the reason for that.