Looking for an approximate 8BTC loan.

[Grumpster]

Hola amigos,

Simple stuff really, I'm looking for a loan of approximately 8BTC.

This will be used for development fees for a website I would like made, as well as promoting the site on it's initial launch. The site is a guaranteed profitable site, within the gambling niche of altcoins. There is no way for the house to lose, but it provides attractive P2P gambling options to users with ridiculously low fees, but in high volume.

I cannot go into details of my idea for obvious reasons on a public forum, however, depending on your general trustworthiness, I may be willing to disclose these details to you via PM if you show that: A) You are indeed able to make the investment, B) You have a genuine interest in making the investment.

For full project details to be disclosed to you I would need you to sign an NDA.

I don't have collateral per se for the loan. However, because of this, I'm more than willing to provide my ID, and am also willing to sign a contract for this as I understand 8BTC is a lot to lose for most people.

I would be looking to pay a monthly compound interest rate of 14.5% on whatever loan balance I have with you, with full re-payment to be completed within 4 months. If you have questions about this then do let me know as some people find this confusing.

DON'T ask me to post my idea publicly.
DON'T PM me "interested" in my idea with no investment intention.
DON'T PM me wanting to know the idea unless you're trustworthy and ready to sign an NDA.

That's about it. I look forward to receiving questions about the investment opportunity, although I ask if you're genuinely interested please send me a PM so we can discuss seriously. I see this forum is for the most part troll-filled, so will simply delete any trolling posts within.

Thanks guys.

[Quickseller]

How is a lender protected when you don't repay the loan?

[Grumpster]

How is a lender protected when you don't repay the loan?

If I have signed a legal contract then they have the legal route to go down. I am also willing for the lender to have limited server access to the place where the site will be run after its development.

[Quickseller]

How is a lender protected when you don't repay the loan?

If I have signed a legal contract then they have the legal route to go down. I am also willing for the lender to have limited server access to the place where the site will be run after its development.

If you file bankruptcy what would happen to the loan?

[Grumpster]

If you file bankruptcy what would happen to the loan?

I don't have a financial legal background so I genuinely don't know, however, I believe, at least in the UK, that you have to have some form of showing that you can't pay back... I mean, I have assets such as my car, which I can't really offer (viably at least) as collateral. Don't you think filing bankruptcy for the equivalent of just over $3000 seems a bit overkill?

[Quickseller]

If you file bankruptcy what would happen to the loan?

I don't have a financial legal background so I genuinely don't know, however, I believe, at least in the UK, that you have to have some form of showing that you can't pay back... I mean, I have assets such as my car, which I can't really offer (viably at least) as collateral. Don't you think filing bankruptcy for the equivalent of just over $3000 seems a bit overkill?

No. Especially if you have other debt.

In bankruptcy, you have a certain level of assets that are protected in bankruptcy so you can clothe yourself, have a place to live, drive to work and have a small amount of personal assets. Anyone can generally file bankruptcy however it doesn't make sense to do so if your assets greatly exceed your debts or if you value your credit history.

Anyone considering to lend to you will almost certainly charge interest rates that are much higher then are available to credit worthy customers at the bank

[Grumpster]

No. Especially if you have other debt.

In bankruptcy, you have a certain level of assets that are protected in bankruptcy so you can clothe yourself, have a place to live, drive to work and have a small amount of personal assets. Anyone can generally file bankruptcy however it doesn't make sense to do so if your assets greatly exceed your debts or if you value your credit history.

Anyone considering to lend to you will almost certainly charge interest rates that are much higher then are available to credit worthy customers at the bank

While I fully appreciate that you're here trying to do a good deed, protecting people from getting their coins ripped off them etc which is admirable, I do find it slightly offensive that you would label anyone who doesn't have upfront collateral as a "scammer", which is what you are attempting to do here, ie the negative trust rating etc etc.

I value my credit history. Unfortunately, I'm a young adult & simply, at this time, I do not have the ability to get the kind of credit this requires. Not only that, it's a matter of time. Loan applications take months and months to process, and all of that for the sake of £2000 isn't viable when I could get an investment from a user here and be up and running with the site in two weeks and making back that money to repay already.

As I said, I'm willing to provide ID. I'm willing to sign a contract. Heck, if you sign an NDA with me I'll sit on Skype with you for three hours explaining the idea in every tiny detail and then provide you daily updates on the progress with Skype, if that's what you want.

Thinking about it, if you're a site developer, then great, we could work something out whereby instead of the full 12BTC, you design and program the site and I will sign a contract with you to pay you the amount of BTC plus interest. Or heck, if you don't trust me that much, sign an NDA with me, let me tell you the idea, then I'll let YOU go and find, and pay, a trustworthy developer to make the site!

[Quickseller]

You can generally get an unsecured loan in a matter of hours if you are going to qualify for one (this may be overstating the time it will take).

Banks tend to be very good at managing risks so if they are not willing to extend a loan of this size it is probably not advisable for someone to give a loan on a peer to peer basis. It might be somewhat different if it was a small, short term loan that would probably not be worth a banks time.

From what I have seen the main reason people take out loans of this size is because they want to use some kind of digital item (primarily altcoins) that banks will generally not accept.

I am not a dev so I would not be able to design your site for 12 btc. I am sure your idea is good and has potential however the risk to anyone who lends to you is very large. Even if you were to not file bankruptcy, it would be very difficult to attempt to collect from you if they are not in the same country as you.

[Grumpster]

I understand your viewpoint but I do refute a few points -

1. You cannot get an unsecured loan "in a matter of hours". I have tried. Application forms alone take hours to complete and then they must be submitted to x x x x x departments for consideration, and then to xxxx department for final decision, etc etc. These things take months. Months is not a timescale that I have.
2. I agree that banks are good at managing risk. However, sometimes they are overzealous. This idea is very low risk in itself. Now sure, to an investor who does not know me, this is high risk. I'm relatively unknown on BCT, I've not had a loan before, and I don't have any real kind of asset to offer as collateral. I completely understand that you, and others, may not want to do business with me on this basis.

However, I'm sure there is somebody out there who is willing to take the calculated risk. As I've said, I'm willing to explain the idea, I'm willing to do things properly in terms of legal binding contracts etc etc, heck, if any potential investor happens to live in the south-east of England then I'm happy to meet up for a coffee and go over things!

[Quickseller]

You admit that someone who does not know you would probably consider this to be too large of a risk. Have you made a pitch to any friends or family members? If your idea is something that you would want a NDA for then you would probably be more protected this way because there is less of a chance of your idea "leaking" as even with a NDA if someone leaks your idea then it is public and the harm is done.

[Grumpster]

You admit that someone who does not know you would probably consider this to be too large of a risk. Have you made a pitch to any friends or family members? If your idea is something that you would want a NDA for then you would probably be more protected this way because there is less of a chance of your idea "leaking" as even with a NDA if someone leaks your idea then it is public and the harm is done.

Of course I have considered it and even approached a family member about it but quite simply it comes down to funding, unfortunately not many people I know have £2000 laying around that they can spare for a couple of months. I wish though!

I do understand that some would see this a high risk. Not too large of a risk, but high risk, sure. People make calculated risks everyday and if there is someone out there willing to have a chat with me and potentially consider investing in the idea then I'd like to hear from them. I really think this idea could take the Altcoin Gambling market by storm.

[Grumpster]

Hi potential investors,

After considering all of the development quotes that I've received, I'm now lowering the amount of bitcoin investment I'm asking for. At current prices, the investment I need is close to $1600, which I hope some will agree is considerably less risk than my last asking.

Of course, I'm still completely open to making things official with a legally signed contract if the investor so wishes.

Please let me know if you are interested.

[takagari]

You need security, no one will take you to court over 1800, so a promise to pay means nothing... Sorry.

[Grumpster]

You need security, no one will take you to court over 1800, so a promise to pay means nothing... Sorry.

The option there is available. I am willing to discuss with someone and come to some kind of arrangement. As I said previously, I happy for them to have some control over the site etc until the full loan is repaid.

[jonald_fyookball]

Just to put things in perspective, I recently lent .25 BTC to a senior trusted
member here with no collateral...and most other people thought
the amount was too high to lend without collateral.

[Grumpster]

I understand that it's a large amount to lend without collateral, believe me. I do understand that. If I had sufficient collateral then I would be selling that collateral to raise the funds because this project is something that simply can't fail, there's too big of a market for it.

I'm still looking for the loan and while I accept that people would be hesitant, I would ask that you refrain from posting unless you have an actual question with regards to investing. Not to sound rude at all.

Thanks everyone.

[Grumpster]

If anybody wants to have a chat about anything with this please send me a PM. I'm sure I can put your mind at rest re any concerns you have about this loan.