Bitcoin has crashed. Are we ready to make it useful?

[BreathOfZen]

At 220 and going down, we are at a point where if nothing changes we can expect nothing more then for the price, and the project, to decay into ridicule.  The fundamental problem is that in concrete terms a Bitcoin is not currently useful in any real sense.  This doesn't need to be the case however, as we have proven at Bit-Comm that through spending Bitcoins we can store data into the blockchain, which is a permanent storage medium.  In a word, we can save Bitcoin by promoting it as having the amazing ability of allowing you to spend it to store your data forever online.

Are you up for saving Bitcoin by making it useful?

[bluemountain]

The fundamental problem is that in concrete terms a Bitcoin is not currently useful in any real sense. 

I think you need to look at this more there is so many advantages of Bitcoin it has been said over and over again. Let me give you an example of two of the most important things. Speed of transfers and cost of transfers.

[Bit_Happy]

Thank you for helping make Bitcoin more useful. The greatest (most useful) thing about BTC is that people have money which is not controlled by the Gov't.

[flipstyle]

thing about BTC is that people have money which is not controlled by the Gov't.

..then you realize there are new taxation laws and they can confiscate it just like any other tangible good if they want.


The biggest draws to bitcoin:

- fixed inflation
- low transfer fees

Other than that, there is nothing that sets bitcoin apart from other digital payment methods, be it money orders, paypal, or debit cards.

[bitkilo]

The blockchain can be used for many great and wonderful things besides bitcoin but it's the bitcoins that keep the whole show going.
Without the coins there would be no mining and without the mining there would be no blockchain.

[BreathOfZen]

The fundamental problem is that in concrete terms a Bitcoin is not currently useful in any real sense. 

I think you need to look at this more there is so many advantages of Bitcoin it has been said over and over again. Let me give you an example of two of the most important things. Speed of transfers and cost of transfers.

Before Gold was a currency, it had to be useful for making jewelry.  Bitcoin has many advantages as a currency, but in order to actually BE one, it first has to have a usefulness to give people faith in it.  Storing your data forever into the blockchain IS that that usefulness. Without it, Bitcoin is just a falling dagger of exploded hype.

[commandrix]

Bitcoin is already useful. Now it's a matter of making it even more useful. There are already new applications for the Blockchain floating around. BitNation is one. BitHalo is another. Can anybody come up with any others?

[Kimowa]

In this situation everyone focuses on price and never the use. The real winners of Bitcoin recongize its use.

[Enochian]

I think you need to look at this more there is so many advantages of Bitcoin it has been said over and over again. Let me give you an example of two of the most important things. Speed of transfers and cost of transfers.

Those are properties of almost all cryptocurrencies based on the Bitcoin client code, not just of Bitcoin.

If I were picking a coin today, I'd certainly pick one of the newer ones, where it doesn't take forever to download the gigantic legacy blockchain.

My Darkcoin client synched with the network in a few minutes, and was ready to use.

[arvindr]

At 220 and going down, we are at a point where if nothing changes we can expect nothing more then for the price, and the project, to decay into ridicule.  The fundamental problem is that in concrete terms a Bitcoin is not currently useful in any real sense.  This doesn't need to be the case however, as we have proven at Bit-Comm that through spending Bitcoins we can store data into the blockchain, which is a permanent storage medium.  In a word, we can save Bitcoin by promoting it as having the amazing ability of allowing you to spend it to store your data forever online.

Are you up for saving Bitcoin by making it useful?

See the bright side . The whole ecosystem is rather expanding , which is also good for bitcoin .

[flipstyle]

..they can confiscate it just like any other tangible good if they want.

Wut?

How does one confiscate a wallet divided into an M of N scheme with the pieces located at multiple different physical locations?

They are going to have to either ask permission or torture/abduct the owner. Torture/abduction is a huge escalation from the simple account seizure of more traditional assets.

Ask the owner of Silk Road how that worked for him.  Are you seriously refuting that the US government can't seize bitcoins from you with jurisdiction if they wanted to? 


hahahaha.

[Danydee]

I think that is as users of this forum and on the spirituality of this forum, we must more invest in the future of bitcoin that we must invest in benefits that we can make from it, (not as in the spirit of speculation)  
 
but that I think is that a move from the community to buying in this times will help a lot the health the bitcoin.
 

[Danydee]

"So do you agree ??"

[cakebet]

The fundamental problem is that in concrete terms a Bitcoin is not currently useful in any real sense. 

I think you need to look at this more there is so many advantages of Bitcoin it has been said over and over again. Let me give you an example of two of the most important things. Speed of transfers and cost of transfers.

+1 for "Speed of transfers and cost of transfers." If you have ever tried to send anything via Wester Union you will fully understand this.

[Bitcoinpro]

its only a technical crash and its still extremely useful

[j1pvt]

Bitcoin has crashed. Are we ready to make it useful?
Yes we are..
My machines are all still running and hoping to take advantage of the gaps.
But what Im waiting for is the difficulty to drop....
With all these really big heavy hitters powering down operations (CEX, Hashnest etc etc), Why are we Not seeing a drop in the difficulty??
The difficulty should be plummeting but no movement yet..

[Kprawn]

The heavy hitters, like CEX is still running in my opinion. The cloud mining section was suspended and from what I have read, only 7% of the total capacity. So the difficulty will not drop significantly.

Back to the OP's question, before we go off topic  There are much bigger advantages to Bitcoin, than it's "currency" function... to name one, Smart contracts.

Let's not focus too much on the price, but what VC companies are seeing in it's value.

The price can skyrocket tommorow, if someone bring out a killer App based on Bitcoin. 

[Elwar]

It is useful. I use it as a currency. Most things I buy online I can use Bitcoin. And I just read up on Brawker and it appears to cover everything else online. At a big discount. So there's that...

Does anyone spend money online?

[boltactionz]

One of Bitcoin's advantages is the ability to "move" large sums across borders without worrying about border guards seizing it and calling you a smuggler or money launderer.

When moving cash above a certain amount you're supposed to do paperwork informing the border guards. Not so with BTC because you only move you, not your money...you just sell for local currency upon arrival. Even if the border guards don't seize your money there's nothing stopping a crooked one from phoning a buddy and tipping them off to follow and rob you later.

[stevenh512]

How does one confiscate a wallet divided into an M of N scheme with the pieces located at multiple different physical locations?

They are going to have to either ask permission or torture/abduct the owner. Torture/abduction is a huge escalation from the simple account seizure of more traditional assets.

Ask the owner of Silk Road how that worked for him.  Are you seriously refuting that the US government can't seize bitcoins from you with jurisdiction if they wanted to?  

Yeah, because Ross Ulbricht was so security conscious that he stored his bitcoins in an M of N scheme with the pieces locked at multiple different physical locations, right? Oh yeah, that's right, he didn't do that.. in fact if you believe the FBI's spiel he was so incompetent when it comes to security that he misconfigured his captcha giving away Silk Road's real IP address.

He also wasn't (under U.S. law) the kingpin of an international criminal organization or anything like that, right? The government simply kidnapped him to steal his bitcoins, it's not like he did anything illegal to draw so much attention from the feds.

At least in the United States, you typically cannot be compelled to give up an encryption key, but that doesn't mean the authorities can't use it if they happen to find or crack it (or if you give it up voluntarily). If he had a 2 of 3 wallet and the feds only found one of those three keys, they couldn't access his coins and they couldn't compel him to give up the other two keys. Even if they could (legally, through an order of the court) compel him to give up those keys, what's the worst that could happen if he doesn't comply? He goes to prison? He's already facing a possible life sentence, giving up evidence against himself wouldn't make his life any easier or keep him out of prison so what incentive would he have to comply instead of simply ignoring the order and being held in contempt? I'd think his odds of ever seeing the outside of a prison again would be much better if he simply claimed he didn't know the other two keys and stuck to that story than if he gave up the keys (testimony and evidence against himself which would prove his guilt beyond any reasonable doubt).
ETA: In fact, with only the one key, they may or may not even be able to prove that the key could be used to sign transactions for a given P2SH (starts with 3) address. That would depend on whether or not the P2SH script has ever been revealed on the blockchain. If the same key had also been used as a traditional P2PKH (starts with 1) address with some incoming and outgoing transactions it could potentially create some plausible deniability even if the P2SH script was known, so it would be in his best interest not to reveal those two keys even if threatened with contempt of court.

Nice try, though.

I've got an idea, let's run a website that is a marketplace for illegal drugs while living in the US! Who's with me?

A trained monkey is probably more security conscious.

^ this
Let's also do it with an improperly configured server that leaks its IP address even over TOR. On top of that, why not use our real names when we rent the servers? We should probably also talk about it on bitcointalk and stack overflow using accounts that could be linked to our real identities, just to be on the safe side.