Poor wittle miners taking their ball and going home

[solid12345]

Am I the only one who doesn't get how miners think they have to shut things down the moment Bitcoin becomes unprofitable? Do gold miners quit mining because they haven't found gold in a few weeks and are not making much money?

What is the point to mining but to speculate, if I dropped out of crypto everytime I made a loss then the market would go nowhere. This is capitalism, nothing in life is certain and handed to you on a silver platter. Write it off on your taxes and hold your coins and hope for next month to make up your losses and then osme.

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[BreathOfZen]

Indeed. To hell with rationality, covering costs, and business sense, this is Bitcoin!

[expert4knowledge]

I do not know what and/or who is behind this misfortune for bitcoin prices but it seems that it has at least correlation with oil prices.

[solid12345]

Indeed. To hell with rationality, covering costs, and business sense, this is Bitcoin!

Mainstream Businesses don't always break even every month or are profitable 100% of the time. Who shuts down their restaurant just because they had a bad month?

[countryfree]

The poor little miner is long gone, my friend. You need a seriously strong computer to get in this business, and the people who did are cold blooded. I don't see any sign of panic coming from them.

[expert4knowledge]

I predict  prices improve since it is an atmosphere.

[Jammalan the Prophet]

I do not know what and/or who is behind this misfortune for bitcoin prices but it seems that it has at least correlation with oil prices.

yeah , the klingonians are trying to bankrupt earth miners for the annexation of mars

[stop4stuff]

lol... i'm still trogging along at 0.7 Gh/s getting maybe 700-900 satoshi a day  

[cryptopaddles]

Indeed. To hell with rationality, covering costs, and business sense, this is Bitcoin!

Mainstream Businesses don't always break even every month or are profitable 100% of the time. Who shuts down their restaurant just because they had a bad month?

A bad month?!  Have you been paying much attention much this past year? ?

[odolvlobo]

Am I the only one who doesn't get how miners think they have to shut things down the moment Bitcoin becomes unprofitable? Do gold miners quit mining because they haven't found gold in a few weeks and are not making much money?

Well, gold miners do shut down their mines if mining is no longer profitable.

Judging from your post, I assume that you must have a room full of ASICs mining away, supporting the network. If not, then why not?

[solid12345]

Judging from your post, I assume that you must have a room full of ASICs mining away, supporting the network. If not, then why not?

I don't mine, i'm a trader. But I don't walk away from trading just because I make a few bad trades, lose some money and call it quits. Why are miners expected to break even every single day 100% of the time any more than I am?

If a mining company has been losing money for a few months straight then yes I would see the reason for shutting it down, but walking away just because they dipped into the unprofitably stage for less than a few weeks is silly. There are restaurants that can run in the red for months at a time before they finally shut down and their line of credit is dropped. If you claim to run a business then act like one and take the risk otherwise go get  a job working for someone else.

[odolvlobo]

Judging from your post, I assume that you must have a room full of ASICs mining away, supporting the network. If not, then why not?

I don't mine, i'm a trader. But I don't walk away from trading just because I make a few bad trades, lose some money and call it quits. Why are miners expected to break even every single day 100% of the time any more than I am?

If a mining company has been losing money for a few months straight then yes I would see the reason for shutting it down, but walking away just because they dipped into the unprofitably stage for less than a few weeks is silly. There are restaurants that can run in the red for months at a time before they finally shut down and their line of credit is dropped. If you claim to run a business then act like one and take the risk otherwise go get  a job working for someone else.

You try hard to make stupidity sound so noble. Do you make trades that you know are bad? Why not? You are a trader! How can you shirk your responsibility to trade even when you know you are going to lose money!

[solid12345]

You try hard to make stupidity sound so noble. Do you make trades that you know are bad? Why not? You are a trader! How can you shirk your responsibility to trade even if you know you are going to lose money!

Of course I don't make trades that I know are bad, you won't know they will be bad until days or weeks later and can only go off your gut feeling or market analysis. How many people lost their shirts on Blackcoin thinking it was the next LTC? Does that mean everyone who lost money on that should exit the crypto game for good?

[odolvlobo]

You try hard to make stupidity sound so noble. Do you make trades that you know are bad? Why not? You are a trader! How can you shirk your responsibility to trade even if you know you are going to lose money!

Of course I don't make trades that I know are bad, you won't know they will be bad until days or weeks later and can only go off your gut feeling or market analysis. How many people lost their shirts on Blackcoin thinking it was the next LTC? Does that mean everyone who lost money on that should exit the crypto game for good?

Likewise, miners stop mining when they know they are going to lose money.

[solid12345]

You try hard to make stupidity sound so noble. Do you make trades that you know are bad? Why not? You are a trader! How can you shirk your responsibility to trade even if you know you are going to lose money!

Of course I don't make trades that I know are bad, you won't know they will be bad until days or weeks later and can only go off your gut feeling or market analysis. How many people lost their shirts on Blackcoin thinking it was the next LTC? Does that mean everyone who lost money on that should exit the crypto game for good?

Likewise, miners stop mining when they know they are going to lose money.

But I will still buy a coin knowing full well I won't make money on it or recover my loss potentially weeks or months down the road. I'm just saying many miners have lost the speculative attitude of crypto, for all they know they could mine at a loss now but Bitcoins price could jump up 2x or 3x or more next month and instead of making ANY money/coins they will wish they had had those coins.

Good real world example, Semgroup a big oil company here in my state was bleeding money years back and close to bankruptcy, their stock plummeted from I believe 80-100 dollars a share (can't remember exactly) to less than a dollar. Well some would have called buying into that stock insane yet those who gambled and took the risk were rewarded years later when the company recovered and the stock is now 63 dollars a share. You could have become a millionaire with just a few grand investment.

All i'm asking is where are people's balls at? How long has K-Mart or Sears been unprofitable yet you don't see them closing shop?

[kendog77]

If the cost of a mining operation exceeds the expected return, most miners will shut down.

In the above situation, if a miner thinks BTC is undervalued and will increase in price, the rational thing to do is to stop mining and buy BTC directly.

For example, it makes zero economic sense to spend $300 to mine 1 BTC when the cost to buy 1 BTC is less than $300.

[countryfree]

Who says miners are losing money? Any proof of that? Once they've bought their ASICs, electricity's cost is very low. They are making less money, that's right, but there's no sign any miner is actually losing money from its daily operation.

[kendog77]

Who says miners are losing money? Any proof of that? Once they've bought their ASICs, electricity's cost is very low. They are making less money, that's right, but there's no sign any miner is actually losing money from its daily operation.

Because of the low BTC price and high difficulty, most miners spend at least half of their revenue on electricity.

The most efficient miners on the market are ~.5W/GH, so a 1 TH/s miner would use ~500W and earn ~$60/month at current difficulty and a BTC price of ~$180.

That .5W/GH miner would still use ~$37 (@10 cents/kwh) in electricity per month to earn $60.

Most miners are not running the most efficient hardware on the market, and many have costs that exceed 10 cents/kwh.

I have no doubt that a very high percentage of the mining market is in the red right now (probably between 25-50% of the network hashrate).

The economics of mining are terrible right now, so either miners will quit and the difficulty will go down (as it should given the low BTC price), or the price of bitcoin needs to go up.

Note: I ran a 30TH mining farm between April and August of this year, so I know what I'm talking about...

[odolvlobo]

You try hard to make stupidity sound so noble. Do you make trades that you know are bad? Why not? You are a trader! How can you shirk your responsibility to trade even if you know you are going to lose money!

Of course I don't make trades that I know are bad, you won't know they will be bad until days or weeks later and can only go off your gut feeling or market analysis. How many people lost their shirts on Blackcoin thinking it was the next LTC? Does that mean everyone who lost money on that should exit the crypto game for good?

Likewise, miners stop mining when they know they are going to lose money.

But I will still buy a coin knowing full well I won't make money on it or recover my loss potentially weeks or months down the road. I'm just saying many miners have lost the speculative attitude of crypto, for all they know they could mine at a loss now but Bitcoins price could jump up 2x or 3x or more next month and instead of making ANY money/coins they will wish they had had those coins.

Mining is a way to acquire bitcoins at a discount. Speculation on future value is a completely different issue. If a miner can acquire a bitcoin at a cost of $300 through mining, or they can acquire a bitcoin at a cost of $180 from a trader, they will stop mining and buy the bitcoin from the trader.

[af_newbie]

But I will still buy a coin knowing full well I won't make money on it or recover my loss potentially weeks or months down the road. I'm just saying many miners have lost the speculative attitude of crypto, for all they know they could mine at a loss now but Bitcoins price could jump up 2x or 3x or more next month and instead of making ANY money/coins they will wish they had had those coins.

Mining is an a way to acquire bitcoins at a discount. Speculation on future value is a completely different issue. If a miner can acquire a bitcoin at a cost of $300 through mining, or they can acquire a bitcoin at a cost of $180 from a trader, they will stop mining and buy the bitcoin from the trader.

[/quote]

+1

And we are well below production cost....