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Author Topic: Milestone crossing for the official bitcoin client  (Read 5609 times)
iCEBREAKER
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July 13, 2012, 05:43:03 PM
 #21

This is it : blk0002.dat is here.

Well then.  That settles that.  Bitcoin is dooomed!  Because mcorlett said so.  And when pressed, endeavored to prooove (^^) it.

It's been a lot of fun and I'll miss you guys, but now there's no way that anybody will ever again bother to download such a massive blockchain.

Over 2 GIGAbytes?  How could that much data possibly be moved?  Maybe by sneakernet (forklift) on tape drives?  Lord knows our 2400 baud modems won't do it.

Not to mention that no operating system can handle such large files, what with them being limited to a 16-bit address space.

And don't forget, this is ALL the fault of SatoshiDice.  Bad, bad, terrible, evil, wicked SatoshiDice.  Why, oh why, did they have to go and ruin Bitcoin?

/so much FUD so little time

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
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mcorlett
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July 13, 2012, 06:23:12 PM
 #22

This is it : blk0002.dat is here.

Well then.  That settles that.  Bitcoin is dooomed!  Because mcorlett said so.  And when pressed, endeavored to prooove (^^) it.

It's been a lot of fun and I'll miss you guys, but now there's no way that anybody will ever again bother to download such a massive blockchain.

Over 2 GIGAbytes?  How could that much data possibly be moved?  Maybe by sneakernet (forklift) on tape drives?  Lord knows our 2400 baud modems won't do it.

Not to mention that no operating system can handle such large files, what with them being limited to a 16-bit address space.

And don't forget, this is ALL the fault of SatoshiDice.  Bad, bad, terrible, evil, wicked SatoshiDice.  Why, oh why, did they have to go and ruin Bitcoin?

/so much FUD so little time
I see that my views give you cause to lash out at me. I'm not going to argue with you.

Have a nice day!

iCEBREAKER
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July 13, 2012, 07:25:24 PM
 #23

This is it : blk0002.dat is here.

Well then.  That settles that.  Bitcoin is dooomed!  Because mcorlett said so.  And when pressed, endeavored to prooove (^^) it.

It's been a lot of fun and I'll miss you guys, but now there's no way that anybody will ever again bother to download such a massive blockchain.

Over 2 GIGAbytes?  How could that much data possibly be moved?  Maybe by sneakernet (forklift) on tape drives?  Lord knows our 2400 baud modems won't do it.

Not to mention that no operating system can handle such large files, what with them being limited to a 16-bit address space.

And don't forget, this is ALL the fault of SatoshiDice.  Bad, bad, terrible, evil, wicked SatoshiDice.  Why, oh why, did they have to go and ruin Bitcoin?

/so much FUD so little time
I see that my views give you cause to lash out at me. I'm not going to argue with you.

Have a nice day!

It's just a little sarcasm.  Harmless fun, yet effective at making the point that your FUD was transparently ridiculous.

That you would mischaracterize so mild a rebuke as 'lashing out at you' indicates just-a-little oversensitivity on your part.

Perhaps that's because the blockchain crossed the 2GB "milestone" and yet, almost nobody noticed, was effected, or indeed cared very much at all.

Except you, who felt the need to continue the argument while claiming 1) to be the poor victim of my 'lashing out' and 2) that you weren't going to argue with me.

Performative contradiction much?  Or only when your FUD amounts to nothing, except for inviting some gentle mockery?

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
bc
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July 15, 2012, 08:12:45 PM
 #24

Overlaying morality on top of bitcoin doesn't make it more resilient to attack.

When government-run water supplies run low, fines and invective are used to punish and embarrass those who might water their lawns or wash their cars. A free market solution is to simply raise the price of water - incentivising conservation. It sounds like that's what the miners have done (de-prioritizing SD txs). Berating SD doesn't seem to have accomplished anything.

Satoshi Dice has helped make it clear how easy it is to bloat the blockchain. If that slows adoption today, that's fine. Slow and steady growth is better than the boom and bust of publicity and exposed-flaw.

Lastly, it sounds like they're filling a market need. Apparently lots of people are "rolling the dice" because they want to. This is what P2P transactions are supposed to be about. No one should be able to stop anyone from sending bitcoin to anyone. This scenario was possible ever since the genesis block. If we've got a "tragedy of the commons" in the blockchain, then we've got to solve it in the model of P2P - not by name-calling.

"Democracy is the original 51% attack." - Erik Voorhees
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July 15, 2012, 09:30:49 PM
 #25

Welcome to my hard drive, blk0002.dat.


We are 1/3 of the way to the blkindex.dat file also being >2GB, and there are several references to this file by name in the source, so I don't think provision has been made to split this file or use multiple databases if the index file grows beyond the filesystem file size limit (such as 4GB in FAT32).

iCEBREAKER
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July 16, 2012, 03:15:59 AM
 #26

Overlaying morality on top of bitcoin doesn't make it more resilient to attack.

When government-run water supplies run low, fines and invective are used to punish and embarrass those who might water their lawns or wash their cars. A free market solution is to simply raise the price of water - incentivising conservation. It sounds like that's what the miners have done (de-prioritizing SD txs). Berating SD doesn't seem to have accomplished anything.

Satoshi Dice has helped make it clear how easy it is to bloat the blockchain. If that slows adoption today, that's fine. Slow and steady growth is better than the boom and bust of publicity and exposed-flaw.

Lastly, it sounds like they're filling a market need. Apparently lots of people are "rolling the dice" because they want to. This is what P2P transactions are supposed to be about. No one should be able to stop anyone from sending bitcoin to anyone. This scenario was possible ever since the genesis block. If we've got a "tragedy of the commons" in the blockchain, then we've got to solve it in the model of P2P - not by name-calling.

All of those rational points don't mean anything because I can gainsay each one of them in a tit-for-tat manner.

You're just lashing out.  Ouch, stop lashing us!  I'm going to equate your rational argument to violence so I have an excuse to run away from the debate.  Just like that other guy.

Obey my boring, snotty, white hat morality or I shall tisk-tisk at you a second time, you terrible person.

Mcorlett is right, defending SatoshiDice and advocating proactive over reactive security is exactly the same as the immoral leaking of weak, innocent Yahoo passwords.  For shame, you SatoshiDice gambling addicts.  Get some help and stop destroying Bitcoin.

/SARCASM

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
Diapolo
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July 16, 2012, 12:10:18 PM
 #27

Welcome to my hard drive, blk0002.dat.


We are 1/3 of the way to the blkindex.dat file also being >2GB, and there are several references to this file by name in the source, so I don't think provision has been made to split this file or use multiple databases if the index file grows beyond the filesystem file size limit (such as 4GB in FAT32).

Good question and I opened an issue for this on Github, to get some core dev attention!

Dia

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kuzetsa
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July 19, 2012, 02:32:06 AM
 #28

...In about three days from now people who use the official bitcoin client...

blk0001.dat will be at most 2130706432 bytes, or 2080768 KiB, or 2032 MiB.

You were wrong. Both of you were wrong:

07/10/2012  11:36 PM     2,097,281,755 blk0001.dat

I actually had blk0002 before you even started this thread!!!
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July 19, 2012, 05:19:56 AM
 #29

...In about three days from now people who use the official bitcoin client...

blk0001.dat will be at most 2130706432 bytes, or 2080768 KiB, or 2032 MiB.

You were wrong. Both of you were wrong:

07/10/2012  11:36 PM     2,097,281,755 blk0001.dat

I actually had blk0002 before you even started this thread!!!

That could aswell be the size on your hard-drive, not the real size of the file ^^. The size on your drive depends on the cluster size.

Dia

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Timo Y
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July 19, 2012, 12:16:53 PM
 #30

blk0002.dat  has already grown 100 MB  Sad

I my opinion, the minimum 0.01 BTC transaction output rule (fees or no fees) should be reintroduced.  Yes it would be a clunky solution but it would just be temporary and it would give the bitcoin infrastructure time to develop to a point where it can scale.

Spamtoshidice and friends are getting a free ride.  Yes, they are paying transaction fees. But transaction fees go only to the miners, but not to the rest of us who are donating our HDs.  10-20 GB a year isn’t that much but it’s enough to discourage casual users from running full clients and strengthening the network.

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July 19, 2012, 02:01:31 PM
 #31

Seriously. I know Bitcoin needs work on the scaling but seriously. A couple of gigabytes is absolutely nothing, you can get 8GB usb sticks really cheap these days. 500GB or 1 TB USB drives don't cost much. I would understand the problem if the blockchain was hundreds of gigabytes, but it is not. It's growing but there is plenty of time to work on the scaling and on top of that hard drives get cheaper all the time.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, not everyone needs to, or is supposed to, run a full node client. If you have a computer that struggles with a full node client, don't use a full node client, use a thin client! That's the number one scaling improvement we've had to this date so take advantage of it.

Denarium - Leading Physical Bitcoin Manufacturer - Special Xmas deals now live!
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July 19, 2012, 02:12:26 PM
 #32

...In about three days from now people who use the official bitcoin client...

blk0001.dat will be at most 2130706432 bytes, or 2080768 KiB, or 2032 MiB.

You were wrong. Both of you were wrong:

07/10/2012  11:36 PM     2,097,281,755 blk0001.dat

Pieter said "at most".  Bitcoin will not split a single block across two files, therefore blk0001.dat will almost always be smaller than precisely 2032 MiB.


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July 19, 2012, 02:14:20 PM
 #33


The maximum block chain growth[1] is about 1GB per week.

[1] given 1MB max block size, which cannot be changed without a hard fork


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July 19, 2012, 02:17:42 PM
 #34

The maximum block chain growth[1] is about 1GB per week.

[1] given 1MB max block size, which cannot be changed without a hard fork
This does not account for increasing hashrates or luck.

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July 19, 2012, 02:49:14 PM
 #35

The maximum block chain growth[1] is about 1GB per week.

[1] given 1MB max block size, which cannot be changed without a hard fork
This does not account for increasing hashrates or luck.

Hence "about"


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July 19, 2012, 02:50:54 PM
 #36

The maximum block chain growth[1] is about 1GB per week.

[1] given 1MB max block size, which cannot be changed without a hard fork
This does not account for increasing hashrates or luck.

Hence "about"

Too many grammar Nazis on this forum ...

I just noticed the blk0002.dat myself and was wondering WTF is going on but it all makes sense now.

Use a good FS like ext4 and forget about Windblows trainwreck.
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July 19, 2012, 02:53:11 PM
 #37

The maximum block chain growth[1] is about 1GB per week.

[1] given 1MB max block size, which cannot be changed without a hard fork
This does not account for increasing hashrates or luck.

Hence "about"

Too many grammar Nazis on this forum ...

I just noticed the blk0002.dat myself and was wondering WTF is going on but it all makes sense now.

Use a good FS like ext4 and forget about Windblows trainwreck.

Even if FAT32 support would be removed, AFAIK there are used functions (was it ftell()?), which seem to have a size limitation of 4 GiB - 1 Byte (I'm sure it's in one comment in the source somwhere). So next stop 4 GB Wink?

Edit: From main.cpp (https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/main.cpp#L1947):
Quote
// FAT32 filesize max 4GB, fseek and ftell max 2GB, so we must stay under 2GB

so FAT32 max file size == 4 GiB - 1 Byte
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July 19, 2012, 05:58:12 PM
 #38


Yes, the interface is potentially limited to signed 32-bit.


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July 19, 2012, 06:11:51 PM
 #39

We're working on replacing blkindex.dat with a LevelDB which uses many smaller files. So size limits on the bdb files should not be an issue by the time they arrive. Assuming anyone is dumb enough to run Bitcoin on a FAT filing system, of course.
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July 20, 2012, 01:25:09 AM
 #40

As much as I hate gambling in general, SatoshiDice is providing a valuable service to Bitcoin, submitting valid transactions with fees to the network. This is exactly what we want to happen. The blockchain is growing because people are using it. 2 GB blockchain? That's nothing. I want to see a 2 TB blockchain! Bring it on!

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