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Author Topic: Let’s All Admit that the Bitcoin Price Bubble Has Popped  (Read 2766 times)
BTC.sx (OP)
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January 17, 2015, 08:57:35 PM
 #1

Has bitcoin bottomed yet? And, what does the aftermath of major bubbles bursting look like and its implications for price?

Thursday, bitcoin had a relief rally in sympathy with most other commodities as the Swiss National Bank (SNB) de-pegged the Swiss Franc from the Euro. This was a surprise move by the SNB but was necessary as being pegged to the Euro has been killing the Franc as the Euro has been sinking against a strong dollar due to Eurozone economic malaise.



A previous article written on this subject can be found here. There is a lot of speculation as to why they did this now and the prevailing sentiment is twofold: the SNB expects the European Central Bank (ECB) to launch massive QE and this will further weaken the Euro so they wanted to get ahead of the curve as the SNB has had to purchase a ton of Euros to protect the Franc and their threshold has been reached.

As a result, the Swiss Franc surged and the Euro weakened, while the USD strengthened. All commodities (gold, oil, copper, silver, bitcoin etc.) also saw a sharp rise in anticipation of QE coming.

Has bitcoin bottomed yet?
The simple answer is no, not yet. As mentioned above, bitcoin had a relief rally yesterday in due to the SNB news in combination with an extremely oversold chart. A relief rally generally occurs in a downtrend, when buyers show up and shorts cover but it is nothing more than a countertrend move and is fleeting at best. As the chart below shows, the downtrend is still intact and yesterday on the daily chart shows a failed attempt to put in a bottom in the form of a Bullish Engulfing Pattern (see here).

As a result, there is more downside. Price discovery is a process, but its looking likely at the very least we get a retest of the 160 level, with an eye on 133, which is the Mt. Gox low as mentioned previously. Volume has picked up along with volatility, so the bottoming process continues.



Generally, price precedes news. With this downtrend strongly in place, one can assume whatever news comes out will be bad. As we continue to bottom, the bad news can be assumed to be in the price and will not lead to a leg lower. In other words, it will be “priced in.”

What the news will be is anyone’s guess, but certainly something is overhanging Bitcoin. In fact, one sign of a bottom will be when bad news comes out and price doesn’t react to it or reacts in an opposite than most people expect.

What happens in the aftermath of bubbles?
The bitcoin price bubble has burst — that can not be denied. This is a major bubble that has popped as bitcoin has broke through many major support levels on its way down, and is still sinking. Below are charts of other major bubbles and unless one is visually impaired the similarities should be striking. The reason I display these charts is because the aftermath of price bubbles is similar for all of them, and bitcoin should be no different.

This is the Japanese real estate bubble:



This is the Dutch East India Company:



This is the Dot-Com (1999–2000) bubble:



This is Silver in 1980:



And finally this is bitcoin:


Let’s all admit that the bitcoin price bubble has popped. But what we can expect as price searches for a bottom?

For now, we can expect volatility to hold up since the bottom isn’t locked in yet. Right now, it looks like we are seeing bottom fishing happening. This is when people are looking for a bottom without being presented of any evidence of such. It’s a sort of front-running for a bottom in anticipation of prices going higher at some point.

Once again, bottoming is a process and takes time. History shows that as a bottom forms, volatility dies off as buying and investment interests wane. Traders also move away from the asset as volatility dies in search of better returns elsewhere. Fundamentals start to matter and price just doesn’t begin a massive upside move.

In fact, it remains range bound for long periods of time. Within this range, I would expect to see large moves, though the price should not to go back to its highs for quite a long time. During this time, companies will continue building on the protocol with the price becoming ancillary as innovation moves forward, which in turn could lead to surges in price as well as many macro economic factors down the road.

In an interconnected global world, things change rapidly and the price is no different. This is a model based on past bubbles and could be different with bitcoin for a variety of reasons, but generally the pattern fits and I would expect a range bound price and a period of low volatility for a while once the bottom is established.

Below is a chart that shows the stages of a bubble bursting and the aftermath:



Written by George Samman, former Wall Street Portfolio Manger and Co-Founder and COO of BTC.sx. BTC.sx is a bitcoin trading platform offering up to 10x leverage to go long or short in bitcoin for bitcoin.

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January 17, 2015, 09:09:13 PM
 #2

Here is the thing. Older users here have seen all this before over and over and over. Pls explain how this time is different from the $30 to $3 crash, the $266 to $60 crash and all the other crashes. Literally everytime there is a crash people start posting those exact same graphs.

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January 17, 2015, 09:16:33 PM
 #3

Here is the thing. Older users here have seen all this before over and over and over. Pls explain how this time is different from the $30 to $3 crash, the $266 to $60 crash and all the other crashes. Literally everytime there is a crash people start posting those exact same graphs.

It's the first time that price went below the high of the previous cycle.
Elliott Wave followers call that wave A.

This also means that for the first time Elliott Waves can be drawn as such that the price will never ever go higher.
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January 17, 2015, 09:19:25 PM
 #4

Here is the thing. Older users here have seen all this before over and over and over. Pls explain how this time is different from the $30 to $3 crash, the $266 to $60 crash and all the other crashes. Literally everytime there is a crash people start posting those exact same graphs.

It's the first time that price went below the high of the previous cycle.
Elliott Wave followers call that wave A.

This also means that for the first time Elliott Waves can be drawn as such that the price will never ever go higher.

Some of the chart guys predicted it ages ago. They say it might actually precede an even bigger future rally. It's not necessarily a bad thing in the long term.
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January 17, 2015, 09:19:43 PM
 #5

It's the first time that price went below the high of the previous cycle.

It's done that before. What about back in 2011 when it went from $15-$30 and then down to $3?

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January 17, 2015, 09:28:41 PM
 #6

It's the first time that price went below the high of the previous cycle.

It's done that before. What about back in 2011 when it went from $15-$30 and then down to $3?

It went from cents to $32, to $2. What happened after didn't create a new high or low until $266.

32 was wave 1
266 was wave 3
1200 was wave 5

everything in-between were sub-waves.
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January 17, 2015, 09:29:34 PM
 #7

... Once again, bottoming is a process and takes time.  ...

13+ months of bear market ... the longest in the history of bitcoin.

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January 17, 2015, 09:41:38 PM
 #8

The only point of this is to plug his exchange where you could have 10-fold leverage which is equal to financial suicide.
Here is my analysis:
Bitcoin will either be worth a lot of money in 10 years or it will be worth close to nothing. Choose your scenario.
EVERYTHING is pump and dump: dollar,euro, gold, silver, stocks, bonds, currencies, real estate.
Oil dump, euro dump and dollar rise are the examples.
Conclusion: choose your "speculative" poison, but never tell me that your choice is rational while another person's is not.
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January 18, 2015, 01:39:05 AM
 #9

I hope to see the real bottom level reached where at that point it will never go much lower or further down. At that level, I assume the equilibrium is there, where miners won't be driven to sell their coins as they would be making loss. Low price will make bitcoin become too attractive to buy and that is where price will slowly increase.

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January 18, 2015, 01:43:42 AM
 #10

The only point of this is to plug his exchange where you could have 10-fold leverage which is equal to financial suicide.
Here is my analysis:
Bitcoin will either be worth a lot of money in 10 years or it will be worth close to nothing. Choose your scenario.
EVERYTHING is pump and dump: dollar,euro, gold, silver, stocks, bonds, currencies, real estate.
Oil dump, euro dump and dollar rise are the examples.
Conclusion: choose your "speculative" poison, but never tell me that your choice is rational while another person's is not.

Not everything is pump and dump. All those examples you give are boom and bust, cycles that repeat over and over. Examples of pump and dump are the dot com and the tulip craze. Which is bitcoin - boom/bust or pump/dump?
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January 18, 2015, 02:02:07 AM
 #11

We are far from the bottom, we need to reach $30-60 before its technically even possible to recover.
There is so much dump volume incoming i doubt we can even hold up those prices and we may even drop to single digits shortly in a flash.

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January 18, 2015, 02:09:40 AM
 #12

I don't think that you can label bitcoin as a bubble. Why? It's really hard to predict it's value in the future. Something that is actually hard with everything in economics. But with bitcoin, things are even unpredictable. There are no limits set by laws or restrictions. I wouldn't find it unlikely if the price went up to 4 figures again, but we could also see two figures this year. The price craze of 2013 indeed seems to be in idle mode for now. But nobody can tell for sure if this is what it's going to be like in the (not so) distant future.

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January 18, 2015, 02:25:03 AM
 #13

What people don't get is that once the bubble pops like let's say bitcoin goes below 100.  It might take 10 or more years to turn to this level.  Thats what happened to some tech stocks like MSFT and YHOO and Japanese real estate bubble
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January 18, 2015, 02:30:19 AM
 #14

I don't think that you can label bitcoin as a bubble. Why? It's really hard to predict it's value in the future. Something that is actually hard with everything in economics. But with bitcoin, things are even unpredictable. There are no limits set by laws or restrictions. I wouldn't find it unlikely if the price went up to 4 figures again, but we could also see two figures this year. The price craze of 2013 indeed seems to be in idle mode for now. But nobody can tell for sure if this is what it's going to be like in the (not so) distant future.

Actually it's not that hard. With all the 'terrorism' lately bitcoin will soon be outlawed in pretty much every western country, you can bet your coins on that.

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January 18, 2015, 02:39:14 AM
 #15

It's the first time that price went below the high of the previous cycle.

It's done that before. What about back in 2011 when it went from $15-$30 and then down to $3?

It went from cents to $32, to $2. What happened after didn't create a new high or low until $266.

32 was wave 1
266 was wave 3
1200 was wave 5

everything in-between were sub-waves.

Not a single EW analyst thinks that. None.

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January 18, 2015, 02:51:48 AM
 #16

It's the first time that price went below the high of the previous cycle.

It's done that before. What about back in 2011 when it went from $15-$30 and then down to $3?

It went from cents to $32, to $2. What happened after didn't create a new high or low until $266.

32 was wave 1
266 was wave 3
1200 was wave 5

everything in-between were sub-waves.

Not a single EW analyst thinks that. None.

Thanks, is the post below that states "Elliott Waves can be drawn as such that the price will never ever go higher" wrong too? I never heard any of the chart guys say that before.

Here is the thing. Older users here have seen all this before over and over and over. Pls explain how this time is different from the $30 to $3 crash, the $266 to $60 crash and all the other crashes. Literally everytime there is a crash people start posting those exact same graphs.

It's the first time that price went below the high of the previous cycle.
Elliott Wave followers call that wave A.

This also means that for the first time Elliott Waves can be drawn as such that the price will never ever go higher.
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January 18, 2015, 06:46:51 AM
Last edit: January 18, 2015, 07:18:21 AM by ElectricMucus
 #17

It's the first time that price went below the high of the previous cycle.

It's done that before. What about back in 2011 when it went from $15-$30 and then down to $3?

It went from cents to $32, to $2. What happened after didn't create a new high or low until $266.

32 was wave 1
266 was wave 3
1200 was wave 5

everything in-between were sub-waves.

Not a single EW analyst thinks that. None.

Bullshit

It doesn't matter what you or anybody else thinks, if it's a valid count all you can do is see if it turns out to be the right count later on.
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January 18, 2015, 06:57:51 AM
 #18

Thanks, is the post below that states "Elliott Waves can be drawn as such that the price will never ever go higher" wrong too? I never heard any of the chart guys say that before.

It's a valid count, nothing more nothing less. That means it can happen that way, it also means that in hindsight it could turn out differently, and that after wave C where price is around 1.62 times of wave 1 (32*1.62=$51.82)  it can lead to another, larger cycle which means another ATH beyond $1200. Mind you can happen, not must happen, it's also in the realm of possibility that this was it and Bitcoin is a FAD, in which case many analysts will say they have predicted it all along. (Which they will probably do in either case)

There can also be another valid count in which 266 was actually a sub-wave and 1200 was wave 3, but it doesn't invalidate my count, as of now. The thing is bulltards always say we're at wave 3 since it means we will be going up, uP, UP for the longest time. The tardiest of all bulltards even think wave 3 still hasn't ended.
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January 18, 2015, 07:03:24 AM
 #19

I don't think that you can label bitcoin as a bubble. Why? It's really hard to predict it's value in the future. Something that is actually hard with everything in economics. But with bitcoin, things are even unpredictable. There are no limits set by laws or restrictions. I wouldn't find it unlikely if the price went up to 4 figures again, but we could also see two figures this year. The price craze of 2013 indeed seems to be in idle mode for now. But nobody can tell for sure if this is what it's going to be like in the (not so) distant future.

Actually it's not that hard. With all the 'terrorism' lately bitcoin will soon be outlawed in pretty much every western country, you can bet your coins on that.

I can't think of any western country that has plans to outlaw bitcoin. Why would they chouse prohibition over regulation when it comes to a financial instrument?

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January 18, 2015, 07:59:47 AM
 #20

how to know when the real bottom is reached ?
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