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Author Topic: 'American Sniper' breaks box office records  (Read 1770 times)
Chef Ramsay (OP)
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January 17, 2015, 11:24:24 PM
 #1

I hope that people are seeing what kind of a failure in real life to some extent that the Iraq war was, rather then people having a surging appetite for the glory of war which was my first take on this. Kyle's first kills are a child and a woman. They didn't sugarcoat it. It also shows that he has no remorse for anything he did in the end. I hate the Iraq war more than ever now. Any thoughts from abroad?
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January 18, 2015, 12:48:36 AM
Last edit: January 18, 2015, 02:40:01 AM by pedrog
 #2

My first impression was the movie is major oscar bait, even more when it got to the end and I learned it was a true story.

I have to agree with you, the movie is not that big on propaganda, it explores the side no one likes to talk, the PTSD, the injuries, the killing of innocent people...

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January 18, 2015, 02:37:23 AM
 #3

I hope that people are seeing what kind of a failure in real life to some extent that the Iraq war was, rather then people having a surging appetite for the glory of war which was my first take on this. Kyle's first kills are a child and a woman. They didn't sugarcoat it. It also shows that he has no remorse for anything he did in the end. I hate the Iraq war more than ever now. Any thoughts from abroad?

He probably didn't feel remorse do to ptsd.

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January 18, 2015, 02:57:54 AM
 #4

I've seen the trailer and it looks promising.
Early on people in EU supported the war, because it was a retaliation. US troops were supposed to go in and out, make Saddam surrender, change the government, but in years some new facts came to light. We found out the WTC attack was staged and the whole purpose of the war was oil. Once again greed has triumphed.


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January 18, 2015, 06:50:40 AM
 #5

The trailer shows off the kid getting shot so it wasn't a secret that it was going to be realistic and not all glory.

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January 18, 2015, 11:34:04 PM
 #6

[...]Early on people in EU supported the war, because it was a retaliation. [...]

I don't think people in Europe ever supported the war in Iraq, at least considering poll results from Gallup International and others. In fact, public opinion in Europe was consistently against the war, even if it received the support from the UN - which it never did.

See for example this article from the BBC in February, 2003: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2747175.stm.

From Portugal to Russia, opinion surveys suggest that without a further UN resolution, most Europeans are overwhelmingly against war - and even a second resolution would not convince many of them.

In Germany, central to Europe's anti-war bloc, an opinion poll this week makes it look almost as if the Germans now see the US - not Iraq - as the main threat to world peace.
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January 18, 2015, 11:56:49 PM
 #7

I hope that people are seeing what kind of a failure in real life to some extent that the Iraq war was, rather then people having a surging appetite for the glory of war which was my first take on this. Kyle's first kills are a child and a woman. They didn't sugarcoat it. It also shows that he has no remorse for anything he did in the end. I hate the Iraq war more than ever now. Any thoughts from abroad?

He probably didn't feel remorse do to ptsd.

Well, not that he didn't feel remorse, the character tries not to count the lives he took but the lives he saved, his missions were usually to protect his fellow combatants.

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January 19, 2015, 12:27:20 AM
 #8

Is the main character based on a real person?

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January 19, 2015, 12:39:37 AM
 #9

Is the main character based on a real person?
Yes, Chris Kyle is the SEAL team sniper w/ allegedly 255 kills, 160 which have been confirmed by the Dept of Defense. The interesting thing is that back in 2006 he had an altercation w/ former Governor and SEAL member Jesse Ventura and lied in his American Sniper book about knocking him out and had to settle for $1.8 million in damages to Ventura for defamation and unjust enrichment.
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January 19, 2015, 12:45:23 AM
 #10



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January 19, 2015, 02:46:33 AM
 #11

I wish I could find this article again.  I think it was shortly before the return to Iraq in 2003 and was a comparison of what money spent on war could do compared to what could be done when the same amount of money was spent on medicine and aid to impoverished regions.  I think the dollar amount used was something like $200B which we know is far less than what Iraq cost but at the time of the article it was an estimate based on a more limited engagement and not a full fledged occupation for a number of years like we ended up having.

Anyhow and obviously, there are far more advantages to spending this type of money in humanitarian efforts.  Iraq in 2003 was bad timing.  Should have done the job completely and correctly back in the 90's.

Here's an article citing the $200B estimate pre-invasion: http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/stories/s692921.htm

But it's still not the article I'm looking for.  If I find it, I'll post it.  It's a really good argument for the benefits of investing in humanitarian missions compared to war.

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January 19, 2015, 08:45:41 AM
 #12

I wish I could find this article again.  I think it was shortly before the return to Iraq in 2003 and was a comparison of what money spent on war could do compared to what could be done when the same amount of money was spent on medicine and aid to impoverished regions.  I think the dollar amount used was something like $200B which we know is far less than what Iraq cost but at the time of the article it was an estimate based on a more limited engagement and not a full fledged occupation for a number of years like we ended up having.

Anyhow and obviously, there are far more advantages to spending this type of money in humanitarian efforts.  Iraq in 2003 was bad timing.  Should have done the job completely and correctly back in the 90's.

Here's an article citing the $200B estimate pre-invasion: http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/stories/s692921.htm

But it's still not the article I'm looking for.  If I find it, I'll post it.  It's a really good argument for the benefits of investing in humanitarian missions compared to war.

I mostly agree with the main idea in your post: spending that money in humanitarian missions, of one variety or another, would have had far better returns for most people involved - except for the war profiteers, that is.

But I'm not sure you and the people in government agree on what a "complete and correct job" on Iraq would be; remember that up to the first war in Iraq, Saddam was strongly supported by the US - weapons, technology, diplomatic cover, and so on. In other words, while he was doing what he was told, he was doing a good job - never mind all the atrocities, invasion of Iran, use of chemical weapons (conveniently provided by the West), and such. So, for the government, a "complete job" would likely mean, finding someone else to rule the country, who would do what he was told to, and not disobey orders. Tongue
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January 28, 2015, 09:37:14 PM
 #13

7 Big Lies 'American Sniper' Is Telling America

Quote
The film American Sniper, based on the story of the late Navy Seal Chris Kyle, is a box office hit, setting records for an R-rated film released in January. Yet the film, the autobiography of the same name, and the reputation of Chris Kyle are all built on a set of half-truths, myths and outright lies that Hollywood didn't see fit to clear up.

Here are seven lies about Chris Kyle and the story that director Clint Eastwood is telling:

1. The Film Suggests the Iraq War Was In Response To 9/11: One way to get audiences to unambiguously support Kyle's actions in the film is to believe he's there to avenge the 9/11 terrorist attacks. The movie cuts from Kyle watching footage of the attacks to him serving in Iraq, implying there is some link between the two.

2. The Film Invents a Terrorist Sniper Who Works For Multiple Opposing Factions: Kyle's primary antagonist in the film is a sniper named Mustafa. Mustafa is mentioned in a single paragraph in Kyle's book, but the movie blows him up into an ever-present figure and Syrian Olympic medal winner who fights for both Sunni insurgents in Fallujah and the Shia Madhi army.

3. The Film Portrays Chris Kyle as Tormented By His Actions: Multiple scenes in the movie portray Kyle as haunted by his service. One of the film's earliest reviews praised it for showing the “emotional torment of so many military men and women.” But that torment is completely absent from the book the film is based on. In the book, Kyle refers to everyone he fought as “savage, despicable” evil. He writes, “I only wish I had killed more.” He also writes, “I loved what I did. I still do. If circumstances were different – if my family didn't need me – I'd be back in a heartbeat. I'm not lying or exaggerating to say it was fun. I had the time of my life being a SEAL.” On an appearance on Conan O'Brien's show he laughs about accidentally shooting an Iraqi insurgent. He once told a military investigator that he doesn't “shoot people with Korans. I'd like to, but I don't.”

4. The Real Chris Kyle Made Up A Story About Killing Dozens of People In Post-Katrina New Orleans: Kyle claimed that he killed 30 people in the chaos of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina, a story Louisiana writer Jarvis DeBerry calls “preposterous." It shows the sort of mentality post-war Kyle had, but the claim doesn't appear in the film.

5. The Real Chris Kyle Fabricated A Story About Killing Two Men Who Tried To Carjack Him In Texas: Kyle told numerous people a story about killing two alleged carjackers in Texas. Reporters tried repeatedly to verify this claim, but no evidence of it exists.

6. Chris Kyle Was Successfully Sued For Lying About the Former Governor of Minnesota: Kyle alleged that former Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura defamed Navy SEALs and got into a fight with him at a local bar. Ventura successfully sued Kyle for the passage in his book, and a jury awarded him $1.845 million.

7. Chris Kyle's Family Claimed He Donated His Book Proceeds To Veterans' Charity, But He Kept Most Of The Profits: The National Review debunks the claim that all proceeds of his book went to veterans' charities. Around 2 percent – $52,000 – went to the charities while the Kyles pocketed $3 million.

Although the movie is an initial box office hit, there is a growing backlash against its simplistic portrayal of the war and misleading take on Kyle's character. This backlash has reportedly spread among members of the Academy of Motion Picture of Arts and Sciences, which could threaten the film's shot at racking up Oscars.

http://www.alternet.org/culture/7-big-lies-american-sniper-telling-america
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January 29, 2015, 12:37:43 AM
 #14

7 Big Lies 'American Sniper' Is Telling America


1. The Film Suggests the Iraq War Was In Response To 9/11: One way to get audiences to unambiguously support Kyle's actions in the film is to believe he's there to avenge the 9/11 terrorist attacks. The movie cuts from Kyle watching footage of the attacks to him serving in Iraq, implying there is some link between the two.

This is actually not true. In the film he signs up for the SEALS in the late 90s after seeing an Al-Queda attack on our embassy in Kenya.

Quote

2. The Film Invents a Terrorist Sniper Who Works For Multiple Opposing Factions: Kyle's primary antagonist in the film is a sniper named Mustafa. Mustafa is mentioned in a single paragraph in Kyle's book, but the movie blows him up into an ever-present figure and Syrian Olympic medal winner who fights for both Sunni insurgents in Fallujah and the Shia Madhi army.

I don't see the big deal here, it is a film for entertainment purposes primarily first and biography second, no one complains that Enemy at the Gates blew exaggerated Erwin König who may have not even existed.

Quote
3. The Film Portrays Chris Kyle as Tormented By His Actions: Multiple scenes in the movie portray Kyle as haunted by his service. One of the film's earliest reviews praised it for showing the “emotional torment of so many military men and women.” But that torment is completely absent from the book the film is based on. In the book, Kyle refers to everyone he fought as “savage, despicable” evil. He writes, “I only wish I had killed more.” He also writes, “I loved what I did. I still do. If circumstances were different – if my family didn't need me – I'd be back in a heartbeat. I'm not lying or exaggerating to say it was fun. I had the time of my life being a SEAL.” On an appearance on Conan O'Brien's show he laughs about accidentally shooting an Iraqi insurgent. He once told a military investigator that he doesn't “shoot people with Korans. I'd like to, but I don't.”

I haven't read the book so I can't comment on cherry picked quotes, but I never got the impression in the film Kyle showed much torment for his actions either, he showed more regret at the guys he couldn't save on our side, not the people he killed so it mostly followed his real-life character.

Quote
4. The Real Chris Kyle Made Up A Story About Killing Dozens of People In Post-Katrina New Orleans: Kyle claimed that he killed 30 people in the chaos of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina, a story Louisiana writer Jarvis DeBerry calls “preposterous." It shows the sort of mentality post-war Kyle had, but the claim doesn't appear in the film.

It's actually not true, Kyle never said this directly it was ANOTHER colleague of Kyle who made the claim about New Orleans and it was 30 people killed between all of them not Kyle alone. Whether it is true or not who knows, but alot of the chaos and anarchy in the Katrina storm was swept under the rug by the media because it was not politically correct. There were roving bands of marauders who were shooting at rescue helicopters and raping and pillaging like vikings, these weren't simple "looters" looking for a loaf of bread and a warm blanket. Supposedly Blackwater contractors were sent in to secure order before the National Guard came in, especially since the NG at home was made up of rookies since the pros were sent over to reinforce the troops in Iraq. It's quite possible the events did happen but the government didn't want it to get out. If you still don't believe they didn't have authorization to shoot, just google Governor Kathleen Blanco (A democrat FYI) and her quote about how National Guard troops were "locked and loaded" and ready to shoot any resisting looters and criminals.

Quote
5. The Real Chris Kyle Fabricated A Story About Killing Two Men Who Tried To Carjack Him In Texas: Kyle told numerous people a story about killing two alleged carjackers in Texas. Reporters tried repeatedly to verify this claim, but no evidence of it exists.

Probably never happened but I still don't think it takes away from what he did. Audy Murphy used to tell some tall tales too and he was the most decorated war veteran ever. Perhaps fibbing was some strange coping mechanism, either way I don't get how this is slander. If we want to talk about  liars I can name plenty of politicians who say much worse things and have alot of respect from the same people who bash Kyle.

Quote
6. Chris Kyle Was Successfully Sued For Lying About the Former Governor of Minnesota: Kyle alleged that former Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura defamed Navy SEALs and got into a fight with him at a local bar. Ventura successfully sued Kyle for the passage in his book, and a jury awarded him $1.845 million.

I will personally admit I am a fan of Jesse Venturas and I think the lawsuit was disheartening especially if Kyle did lie. But again people are flawed, not everyone in life gets along with each other.


Quote
7. Chris Kyle's Family Claimed He Donated His Book Proceeds To Veterans' Charity, But He Kept Most Of The Profits: The National Review debunks the claim that all proceeds of his book went to veterans' charities. Around 2 percent – $52,000 – went to the charities while the Kyles pocketed $3 million.

His wife claims they still have the money but haven't found a way to distribute it yet. Kind of fishy to me but the man is dead, take it up against the Misses and not him.


My own personal opinion, Kyle was probably a jerk and a braggart. But he still also was a decorated sniper and his story is interesting. Why should I not like a movie because the main character isn't perfect? And also if you view the movie as more through the lens of what the average Iraq veteran went through then Kyle itself which I think is a major intent of what Eastwood did, then the film works. There is a reason it shows Kyle doing things he never actually did in Iraq like having to kill a child with a weapon or disobeying orders and going on patrol with Marine kicking down doors or doing intelligence gathering, it's more a "Every soldier" kind of movie than just a commentary on Kyle's life alone.
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January 29, 2015, 01:42:38 AM
 #15

I hope that people are seeing what kind of a failure in real life to some extent that the Iraq war was, rather then people having a surging appetite for the glory of war which was my first take on this. Kyle's first kills are a child and a woman. They didn't sugarcoat it. It also shows that he has no remorse for anything he did in the end. I hate the Iraq war more than ever now. Any thoughts from abroad?

I haven't watched it have read a few comments on both sides
Some that have praised the movie as a cinema masterpiece like saving private ryan on the other end some people saying look at what he did for his country how are the Americans not worse than ISIS and those terrorists, then getting flamed on hard by other people who are like how dare you compare us with ISIS we are not like them etc.

Can't say either way what I would opinion with until I see it myself

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January 29, 2015, 02:15:25 AM
 #16

[Frmr SEAL and Gov] Jesse Ventura Won't See 'American Sniper'; Says Chris Kyle Is No Hero

Quote
MINNEAPOLIS (AP) — American Sniper is tops at the box office but don’t expect to see former Minnesota Gov. Jesse Ventura lining up at a theater for it.

Ventura, a former Navy SEAL, won $1.8 million in a defamation lawsuit last year against the estate of the late Chris Kyle, the SEAL protagonist of the movie, which has sparked debate over whether snipers should be considered heroes. Ventura said Wednesday he won’t see the film partly because Kyle is no hero to him.

"A hero must be honorable, must have honor. And you can’t have honor if you’re a liar. There is no honor in lying," Ventura told The Associated Press from his winter home in Baja California, Mexico. He also noted that the movie isn’t playing there.

Ventura also dismissed the movie as propaganda because it conveys the false idea that Iraq had something to do with the 9/11 attacks. “It’s as authentic as Dirty Harry,” he said, referring to fictional movie series starring Clint Eastwood, the director of American Sniper.

More...https://www.yahoo.com/movies/jesse-ventura-wont-see-american-sniper-says-109430042057.html
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January 29, 2015, 02:18:27 AM
 #17

Saw the movie on the weekend, very great but it definitely played with my emotions and feelings, I guess it could be called propaganda.

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January 29, 2015, 04:16:39 AM
 #18

Chuck Baldwin: My Thoughts On The Movie "American Sniper."

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As with millions of other Americans, I went to see the hugely popular Clint Eastwood-directed movie, "American Sniper." Here are some of my thoughts:

No one, at least not me, doubts the patriotism, courage, and sacrifice of our nation's military personnel--especially our combat forces. I certainly do not share Michael Moore's opinion that Chris Kyle (and our snipers in general) was a coward. Snipers have been effective in helping to wage America's wars since our War for Independence. In lawful combat, snipers are as needful as any other specialized fighting man.

My issue is not with Chris Kyle, or with any other American fighting man. My issue is with the justness of the war Chris Kyle was ordered to fight. Yes, I realize that we have an all-volunteer army; but let's be honest enough to admit that the vast majority of our young people joining the U.S. military sincerely believe that they are doing their patriotic duty by volunteering to conduct war against America's "enemies." They learn nothing else from family, school, movies and television, and church. The singular message they hear is that everything the U.S. military does is right and righteous and that every military engagement we fight is just and justified. I'm sure Chris Kyle was no different.

However, at the risk of sounding unpatriotic, after watching the real-life military exploits of Chris Kyle on the Big Screen, I left the theater extremely angry.

In the first place, Saddam Hussein and the country of Iraq had absolutely NOTHING to do with 9/11. G.W. Bush and Dick Cheney unabashedly lied to the American people about the necessity of America invading Iraq. We invaded Iraq under false pretenses; we occupied Iraq under false pretenses; and we took (and lost) thousands of lives under false pretenses.

Secondly, as I watched the depiction of U.S. Marines going house-to-house and kicking down doors, manhandling old men, women, and children, it occurred to me that these exact same tactics are now being employed by American police agencies against the people of the United States. Our so-called SWAT teams are nothing more than occupying military units. The strategies, philosophies, and tactics are exactly the same as soldiers in a war zone.

More...https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=932724926738432&id=226997970644468

Full disclosure but CB is the Constitution Party's last Presidential candidate and someone that many of Ron Paul's supporters voted for in the last general election in 2012. He's a pastor and lives somewhere in the wilderness up in Idaho or Montana. He's a pretty good guy from what I've known of him but I'm more of a Libertarian and don't subscribe to the religious aspects of the CP and what I've read about what they typically push on a regular basis.
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January 29, 2015, 05:16:48 AM
 #19

the guy was a scumbag liar but its stil good to see a film about a white male action hero beating that martin luther king hoax

Be radical, have principles, be absolute, be that which the bourgeoisie calls an extremist: give yourself without counting or calculating, don't accept what they call ‘the reality of life' and act in such a way that you won't be accepted by that kind of ‘life', never abandon the principle of struggle.
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January 29, 2015, 06:40:59 AM
 #20

Bit of a controversial spiel never hurt takings, aye? Wink

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