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Author Topic: MtGox, are people still having issues with their withdrawals?  (Read 811 times)
Mitchow
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July 12, 2012, 05:00:31 AM
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Hey everyone,

I've been doing a bit of trading over at MtGox, and I'm ready to cash out a few CAD$ via bankwire, but I've been reading a bit around this forum and noticed that there were issues with MtGox's cash out option. Is this still happening?

I've been seeing people make threads about very abnormal delays on transfers, and that they are only tended to once they contact customer support or present their issue to this BTC forum.

I'm just a bit worried. I'm playing with several thousand dollars here.

Any advice would be highly appreciated. Thanks a bunch.
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July 12, 2012, 05:05:58 AM
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From what I can tell, there seem to always be a few people complaining about having issues with MtGox. Behind that, though, are presumably thousands of people who don't have any reason to complain.

If you're dealing with a lot of money, I'd make sure that you're in MtGox's good graces before moving it around by having your identity verified and such.
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July 12, 2012, 05:22:52 AM
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From what I can tell, there seem to always be a few people complaining about having issues with MtGox. Behind that, though, are presumably thousands of people who don't have any reason to complain.

If you're dealing with a lot of money, I'd make sure that you're in MtGox's good graces before moving it around by having your identity verified and such.

Yeah, I have all the material and docs I need to identify myself if need be. Thanks, I guess I'll just go ahead with it and try not to worry so much.
casascius
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July 12, 2012, 05:26:26 AM
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Presumably, there's lots of people who have no problems.

Presumably, there's enough money in their bank to cover all depositors.

Presumably, Bernie Madoff had all his investors' money tucked away just waiting for them to withdraw it all.

Presumably doesn't mean anything is true, at best it means you hope it's true.

MtGox persistently refuses to undergo an audit and refuses to prove to anybody that they have any or all depositor money... not even just for the BTC alone, where doing so would be as simple as using the "sign message with private key" feature.

I operate a brick-and-mortar small business in the payroll industry where bringing in an auditor annually is just a routine part of doing business and is expected by many of my clients, and all of the larger ones.  It's really not a big deal, the auditor's job is to provide an independent written opinion that what you say you do is what you do, and his fee is less than the cost of 1 month of office rent.  Getting audited is about as simple as paying the fee, having the auditor come out, show him whatever he wants to see (he gives a list in advance before even coming), and then sign off on his report.

I have been prodding MtGox to get an audit since May of 2011.  Them getting an audit is a 110% reasonable expectation, yet they don't even pretend they'll consider it - they immediately start coughing up reasons why they "can't".  The fact that MtGox offers excuses, excuses, excuses, and more excuses at the prospect of such an audit and won't prove any BTC ownership either, is everything I need to know to AVOID doing business there.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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July 12, 2012, 05:44:13 AM
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Presumably, there's lots of people who have no problems.

Presumably, there's enough money in their bank to cover all depositors.

Presumably, Bernie Madoff had all his investors' money tucked away just waiting for them to withdraw it all.

Presumably doesn't mean anything is true, at best it means you hope it's true.

MtGox persistently refuses to undergo an audit and refuses to prove to anybody that they have any or all depositor money... not even just for the BTC alone, where doing so would be as simple as using the "sign message with private key" feature.

I operate a brick-and-mortar small business in the payroll industry where bringing in an auditor annually is just a routine part of doing business and is expected by many of my clients, and all of the larger ones.  It's really not a big deal, the auditor's job is to provide an independent written opinion that what you say you do is what you do, and his fee is less than the cost of 1 month of office rent.  Getting audited is about as simple as paying the fee, having the auditor come out, show him whatever he wants to see (he gives a list in advance before even coming), and then sign off on his report.

I have been prodding MtGox to get an audit since May of 2011.  Them getting an audit is a 110% reasonable expectation, yet they don't even pretend they'll consider it - they immediately start coughing up reasons why they "can't".  The fact that MtGox offers excuses, excuses, excuses, and more excuses at the prospect of such an audit and won't prove any BTC ownership either, is everything I need to know to AVOID doing business there.

Would you say most Bitcoin exchange companies are in the same situation? BTC-e and Vircurex are two other exchanges that have similar, if not identical, withdrawal options, but I chose to make my CAD withdraw with MtGox simply because "they handle over 80% of the Bitcoin trades", which made me assume that they held the best track record.

Maybe I use an alternative cash out option. I regularly see BTC -> Mailed Cheque/Bankwire services with very reasonable fees. I'll begin looking into each of them.
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July 12, 2012, 02:23:17 PM
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Presumably, there's lots of people who have no problems.

Presumably, there's enough money in their bank to cover all depositors.

Presumably, Bernie Madoff had all his investors' money tucked away just waiting for them to withdraw it all.

Presumably doesn't mean anything is true, at best it means you hope it's true.

MtGox persistently refuses to undergo an audit and refuses to prove to anybody that they have any or all depositor money... not even just for the BTC alone, where doing so would be as simple as using the "sign message with private key" feature.

I operate a brick-and-mortar small business in the payroll industry where bringing in an auditor annually is just a routine part of doing business and is expected by many of my clients, and all of the larger ones.  It's really not a big deal, the auditor's job is to provide an independent written opinion that what you say you do is what you do, and his fee is less than the cost of 1 month of office rent.  Getting audited is about as simple as paying the fee, having the auditor come out, show him whatever he wants to see (he gives a list in advance before even coming), and then sign off on his report.

I have been prodding MtGox to get an audit since May of 2011.  Them getting an audit is a 110% reasonable expectation, yet they don't even pretend they'll consider it - they immediately start coughing up reasons why they "can't".  The fact that MtGox offers excuses, excuses, excuses, and more excuses at the prospect of such an audit and won't prove any BTC ownership either, is everything I need to know to AVOID doing business there.

Thanks for this info casascius. I assume you would recommend www.bitinstan[Suspicious link removed]m instead ?
ps. i ordered a physical bitcoin from your site and i cant wait for it to arrive. They look really cool in the pictures Smiley
casascius
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July 12, 2012, 03:15:45 PM
 #7

Would you say most Bitcoin exchange companies are in the same situation? BTC-e and Vircurex are two other exchanges that have similar, if not identical, withdrawal options, but I chose to make my CAD withdraw with MtGox simply because "they handle over 80% of the Bitcoin trades", which made me assume that they held the best track record.

Maybe I use an alternative cash out option. I regularly see BTC -> Mailed Cheque/Bankwire services with very reasonable fees. I'll begin looking into each of them.

I would say yes - none of the other exchanges are claiming they have a SAS 70 / SSAE 16 audit - but none of them have really risen to prominence either.  With Mt. Gox, I waited more than a year from privately saying "Hey guys, you ought to consider an audit, here's how to get one done and who to call" to going "Look everybody, they won't audit, and they're exhibiting bad signs, so beware".  The fact that MtGox is delaying withdrawals, not replying to people who complain (at least they weren't before) and giving excuses I find to be non-credible also accelerated that.

It is something I will probably throw by any other exchange I deal with - but privately at first, in the context of "look, getting this will really help people trust your business like it does for mine", rather than any sort of "get your audit or I'm going to call you out for it".

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
Meni Rosenfeld
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July 12, 2012, 04:09:53 PM
 #8

I wondered the same myself and asked their customer support if there are still delays. They said wire withdrawals take 2 weeks - which is a delay if you ask me, but it seems they consider it business as usual.

is gox a ponzi?
Now that explains everything!
Maybe they should be renamed mtgst, "Magic: the Gathering Savings & Trust".

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Mike Caldwell
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July 12, 2012, 04:40:15 PM
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Thanks for this info casascius. I assume you would recommend www.bitinstan[Suspicious link removed]m instead ?
ps. i ordered a physical bitcoin from your site and i cant wait for it to arrive. They look really cool in the pictures Smiley

I do recommend Bitinstant from what I know of them: always responsive and responsible.

There is also a big fundamental difference between Bitinstant and an exchange: Bitinstant only holds their customer's money for minutes on average, whereas the nature of an exchange encourages people to leave their money there.  Bitinstant isn't in a position where they can be tempted to borrow from their customers' funds if finances get tight.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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