BTC costs the consumer money

[cafucafucafu]

http://www.coindesk.com/tnabc-day-1-bitcoin-industry-undeterred-despite-price-decline/

Coinsetter CEO Jaron Lukasiewicz

“Credit cards pay people at 1.5%. Bitcoin costs the consumer 1.5%,”

“That's the competition, and as an industry we need to be looking at where bitcoin competes.”

“We have the tendency to communicate that bitcoin is a cheaper solution [as a payment method], but you have to check into the consumer standpoint,”


Okay so how will this get resolved?

If BTC was cheaper for the consumer then we  go to the moon but otherwise we go to the floor.

[tokeweed]

kindly explain the system where credit cards pay the consumer 1.5% and then btc costs 1.5%.

thanks.

[cafucafucafu]

It costs the consumer to buy BTC and the merchant usually offers no discounts.

[turvarya]

If you throw in numbers, you should explain how they were calculated. It wouldn't be the first time, that the calculation is just wrong.
It doesn't cost me 1.5% to buy BTC, it is actually 0.35%+small transaction fees. So, this number is wrong unless you can show me, what extra fees I might have forgotten about.

[cafucafucafu]

If you buy BTC with a credit card, the cost passes from the merchant to the consumer. Do you deny this?

[turvarya]

If you buy BTC with a credit card, the cost passes from the merchant to the consumer. Do you deny this?

Why would I buy BTC with a credit card?
You didn't answer my question on how this numbers are calculated. Unless you do that, any discussion is pointless.

[Meuh6879]

i pay my credit card (without debt autorisation) ... 50 euros per year.
that ... it's fraud for me (or mafia system).

[Kazimir]

Wrong. It's actually: credit cards cost 3%-5%, Bitcoin costs 0%.

With Bitcoin, I can pay money virtually for free. Both online and offline.

With credit cards, however, first I have to convert BTC to EUR or USD (costing 0.5-1%), then I have to get a credit card (costing me x amount per year), and on top of that I'm even paying ridiculous credit card fees of another 1-3% (obviously, merchants ain't paying for that themselves).


Then there's something else: by using fiat money, you keep supporting a system that is (hyper-)inflationary by definition. My money will automatically decrease a few % every year, by the very nature of fiat money and the way it comes into existence. Even though I may not see my bank account's balance dwindle, my purchasing power does.

Fiat is VERY bad and expensive for consumers.

[cafucafucafu]

If you buy BTC with a credit card, the cost passes from the merchant to the consumer. Do you deny this?

Why would I buy BTC with a credit card?
You didn't answer my question on how this numbers are calculated. Unless you do that, any discussion is pointless.

Most people are not you. Do you really expect most people to go through some lengthy process to get BTC? They will go to Circle.com and the like to buy from. Thus using cards the cost is passed to the consumer.

Please be open minded and think about how the average dud will buy BTC.

[cafucafucafu]

Wrong. It's actually: credit cards cost 3%-5%, Bitcoin costs 0%.

With Bitcoin, I can pay money virtually for free. Both online and offline.

With credit cards, however, first I have to convert BTC to EUR or USD (costing 0.5-1%), then I have to get a credit card (costing me x amount per year), and on top of that I'm even paying ridiculous credit card fees of another 1-3% (obviously, merchants ain't paying for that themselves).


Then there's something else: by using fiat money, you keep supporting a system that is (hyper-)inflationary by definition. My money will automatically decrease a few % every year, by the very nature of fiat money and the way it comes into existence. Even though I may not see my bank account's balance dwindle, my purchasing power does.

Fiat is VERY bad and expensive for consumers.

You are missing the point - it costs consumers 3-5% to actually buy the BTC with those cards.

[ujka]

Most people are not you. Do you really expect most people to go through some lengthy process to get BTC? They will go to Circle.com and the like to buy from. Thus using cards the cost is passed to the consumer.

Please be open minded and think about how the average dud will buy BTC.

I went to circle.com, signed in, registered, verified phone. And then circle told me 'At this time, bank accounts and credit cards from your country cannot be linked to Circle. Our apologies for the inconvenience.'

Not much help there for this 'average dud'.

[inBitweTrust]

You are missing the point - it costs consumers 3-5% to actually buy the BTC with those cards.

Coinbase has over 1.9 million unique users , was easier to setup than paypal, and only charges 1% to purchase Bitcoin.

You are spreading FUD.

[turvarya]

If you buy BTC with a credit card, the cost passes from the merchant to the consumer. Do you deny this?

Why would I buy BTC with a credit card?
You didn't answer my question on how this numbers are calculated. Unless you do that, any discussion is pointless.

Most people are not you. Do you really expect most people to go through some lengthy process to get BTC? They will go to Circle.com and the like to buy from. Thus using cards the cost is passed to the consumer.

Please be open minded and think about how the average dud will buy BTC.

What lengthy process? If I want to have a credit card, I have to submit a form and wait a few weeks before I get my credit card. If I want to buy BTC on an exchange, I have to submit a form and have to wait a few days before I can easily buy BTC there.

[Kazimir]

You are missing the point - it costs consumers 3-5% to actually buy the BTC with those cards.

Nonsense. If I still had fiat, I would convert it to BTC immediately (as I have done previously with most of my fiat) which costs like 0.35%.

Besides, it's a retarded comparison: buying groceries with cards, or buying bitcoins with cards and then buying groceries with bitcoins. Yes, obviously the latter is more expensive, because the cards are still involved. You have to think the other way around man.

I, for one, am getting paid my monthly salary directly in Bitcoin. No need to mess with expensive, security-sensitive, slow, limited, region-restricted, inconvenient cards.

[ujka]

What lengthy process? If I want to have a credit card, I have to submit a form and wait a few weeks before I get my credit card. If I want to buy BTC on an exchange, I have to submit a form and have to wait a few days before I can easily buy BTC there.

Unlike circle.com example in my post above, I was able to sign in, register, verify, and deposit to kraken with SEPA, all in two hours.

[98problems]

Wrong. It's actually: credit cards cost 3%-5%, Bitcoin costs 0%.

With Bitcoin, I can pay money virtually for free. Both online and offline.

With credit cards, however, first I have to convert BTC to EUR or USD (costing 0.5-1%), then I have to get a credit card (costing me x amount per year), and on top of that I'm even paying ridiculous credit card fees of another 1-3% (obviously, merchants ain't paying for that themselves).


Then there's something else: by using fiat money, you keep supporting a system that is (hyper-)inflationary by definition. My money will automatically decrease a few % every year, by the very nature of fiat money and the way it comes into existence. Even though I may not see my bank account's balance dwindle, my purchasing power does.

Fiat is VERY bad and expensive for consumers.

The article assumes that merchants are not going to charge different prices for consumers using different payment methods. If this is the case then the article is correct because credit cards often give account holders some kind of reward points that are worth at least 1% of the amount spent.

What it fails to account for is the fact that over time merchants will likely want to offer discounts in order to get people to want to pay in bitcoin because it is cheaper for them to accept.

It is not fiat that is expensive for consumers, it is credit cards specifically. If there was a bitcoin credit card it would likely have similar high costs

[Klestin]

"“Credit cards pay people [a tiny fraction of their customer base] at 1.5% [while taking 3% from the retailer, and charging enormous fees and interest to the vast majority of their customer base]."

FTFY

[infobel]

If you buy BTC with a credit card, the cost passes from the merchant to the consumer. Do you deny this?

Buy BTC with a credit card, to buy something with BTC?
That's just wrong
LOL

[DannyHamilton]

If you buy BTC with a credit card . . .
- snip -

Then you are "doing it wrong".

That's just a horrible idea.  Please don't do that.

Since Bitcoin is a "digital cash", perhaps you should use a more similar comparison...

If you buy cash USD with a credit card, and then use those USD to purchase something, what fee will you pay when using your credit card to get the USD.  In most cases it will be significantly more than 1.5%.

[skinbrake]

So its an initial cost of buying Bitcoins that makes it more expensive? Am I understanding this right?