Provably fair, correct me if I'm wrong

[findftp]

Many bitcoin gambling sites state that they are provable fair.
Let's assume they are.

But what if they bet on their own game many many times, wouldn't they increase their profit by doing so?
If they create the highest betting volume, they have a higher stake in the whole game.

Do I miss something?

[ComboChris]

Many bitcoin gambling sites state that they are provable fair.
Let's assume they are.

But what if they bet on their own game many many times, wouldn't they increase their profit by doing so?
If they create the highest betting volume, they have a higher stake in the whole game.

Do I miss something?

Not sure what exactly you're talking about. If you're talking about non-invest sites: They would just lose money to themselves which would only make sense in terms of promoting the sites('we have high rollers', etc.)
On Invest sites, the owner could actually bet on the site and win the investors' bitcoin, since they knows the server seed/secret. But the fact that investors must trust the owner with not running with their money anyways(which would be much faster if the owner wanted to scam) justifies trusting the owner to not bet on his own sites/rig his bets.

[kotwica666]

Many bitcoin gambling sites state that they are provable fair.
Let's assume they are.

But what if they bet on their own game many many times, wouldn't they increase their profit by doing so?
If they create the highest betting volume, they have a higher stake in the whole game.

Do I miss something?

I don't think that there is any possibility of cheating when game is provably fair..
Here it is well described:

https://satoshidice.com/provably-fair/

[findftp]

Many bitcoin gambling sites state that they are provable fair.
Let's assume they are.

But what if they bet on their own game many many times, wouldn't they increase their profit by doing so?
If they create the highest betting volume, they have a higher stake in the whole game.

Do I miss something?

I don't think that there is any possibility of cheating when game is provably fair..
Here it is well described:

https://satoshidice.com/provably-fair/

I would rather have a source other than a gambling website.
I think creating large betting volume on your own website will benefit yourself when you are the owner.
When you win, you get the stake
When you lose, you lose to yourself.

Other tiny players can only win when they win  (dumb sentence, but I hope you get my point)

The owners of the site can increase their profit by increasing the betting volume. The only thing they really lose is the transaction fee I just figured.

[rolldice.io]

Many bitcoin gambling sites state that they are provable fair.
Let's assume they are.

But what if they bet on their own game many many times, wouldn't they increase their profit by doing so?
If they create the highest betting volume, they have a higher stake in the whole game.

Do I miss something?

I don't think that there is any possibility of cheating when game is provably fair..
Here it is well described:

https://satoshidice.com/provably-fair/

The site operator could still cheat the investors. By knowing the server seeds they could predict any roll outcome and drain the bankroll. Checkout our site https://rolldice.io, we developed a solution specifically to this problem, also checkout our thread at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=920704.0

[arvindr]

Many bitcoin gambling sites state that they are provable fair.
Let's assume they are.

But what if they bet on their own game many many times, wouldn't they increase their profit by doing so?
If they create the highest betting volume, they have a higher stake in the whole game.

Do I miss something?

This probably applies to only invest only sites. I think thats a risk investors have to take. Some sites have tried to come up with a provably fair invest model as well. Not sure how successful that has beeen.

[kotwica666]

When you win, you get the stake
When you lose, you lose to yourself.

Other tiny players can only win when they win  (dumb sentence, but I hope you get my point)

The owners of the site can increase their profit by increasing the betting volume. The only thing they really lose is the transaction fee I just figured.

Yes. Now i get it! Hmm, interesting.. When he lose he losing only from his own pocket. That is possible. I must talk about that with my friend.. He is good in this stuff. I will let you know.  

[4ever]

Many bitcoin gambling sites state that they are provable fair.
Let's assume they are.

But what if they bet on their own game many many times, wouldn't they increase their profit by doing so?
If they create the highest betting volume, they have a higher stake in the whole game.

Do I miss something?

They might not even lose the transaction fees if they just update the amoiunt in the accounts manually.
Also, how would this help owners in the non-invetment site ?

[Snail2]

Many bitcoin gambling sites state that they are provable fair.
Let's assume they are.

But what if they bet on their own game many many times, wouldn't they increase their profit by doing so?
If they create the highest betting volume, they have a higher stake in the whole game.

Do I miss something?

They might not even lose the transaction fees if they just update the amoiunt in the accounts manually.
Also, how would this help owners in the non-invetment site ?

If the game isn't an on-chain game then there are no transaction fees. The only befit (at first look) is increasing the number of rolls and bets. So they can say that more than 1000 BTC have been gambled on the site, however in reality that 1000 is only 100 or even 10.

[whirlpoolian]

i always doubt if casino really provably fair, thats why i created this type of betting. its simple, and everyone will understands. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=930646.0

[kotwica666]

It looks like owner can probably always find a way to cheat customers.

Seems to be the safest solution in which the owner is sharing earnings with investors - more investors safer casino.

[unamis76]

I think the only way to scam is running with the funds... Provably fair covers many trust issues.

[Snail2]

I think the only way to scam is running with the funds... Provably fair covers many trust issues.

That Provably fair stuff is about the randomness of rolls. Not about the owner or about what the casino doing with it's own coins. So that covers many trust issues indeed, but not all issues/possible issues.

[philiveyjr]

Many bitcoin gambling sites state that they are provable fair.
Let's assume they are.

But what if they bet on their own game many many times, wouldn't they increase their profit by doing so?
If they create the highest betting volume, they have a higher stake in the whole game.

Do I miss something?

They might not even lose the transaction fees if they just update the amoiunt in the accounts manually.
Also, how would this help owners in the non-invetment site ?

I dont think it can..! other than the marketing point of view.. n generating traffic n stuff.!!

[arvindr]

I think the only way to scam is running with the funds... Provably fair covers many trust issues.

Sites not taking investmments can't run away with a lot. Its a good practice to withdraw all funds after gambling.

[captainwire]

are you implying this as a way to attract bigger whales ot their site? if they play their own game type of thing.

[unamis76]

I think the only way to scam is running with the funds... Provably fair covers many trust issues.

That Provably fair stuff is about the randomness of rolls. Not about the owner or about what the casino doing with it's own coins. So that covers many trust issues indeed, but not all issues/possible issues.

But if a casino gambles with investors coins, the long term probability is to lose them... am I right?

[kotwica666]

I think the only way to scam is running with the funds... Provably fair covers many trust issues.

That Provably fair stuff is about the randomness of rolls. Not about the owner or about what the casino doing with it's own coins. So that covers many trust issues indeed, but not all issues/possible issues.

But if a casino gambles with investors coins, the long term probability is to lose them... am I right?

No, he think that if owner play on his own (provably fair) dice site his clients have less chance to win. This is like theory - if someone play more have more chance to win.. 

[yahoo62278]

so why invest in a site at all if theyre able to cheat investors? im kinda hijacking here but im curious

[kotwica666]

so why invest in a site at all if theyre able to cheat investors? im kinda hijacking here but im curious

E:That was not about cheating investors, that was about cheating clients..

I was talking about possibilities. If owner have to pay dividend to investors. He have less chance to win if he will want to play on his own web. s**t thats crazy! I know! But there is logic!