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Author Topic: I donít trust it.  (Read 1001 times)
Pappy
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July 14, 2012, 05:39:19 AM
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Seeing I just found out about Bitcoin a little over a week ago or so. Iíve been telling people about it. One of my friends is a stockbroker. So he has heard of Bitcoin. But he never really looked into it he said. After I told him it was around $6.50  about a week ago and  now itís over $7.00, he said he was going to look into it. Of course heíll look into Bitcoin, Heís a stockbroker and itĎs his job, find investments or methods that make a profit.

Then I was talking with another friend. Of course he asked, How do you get it?

I told him you can mine for it or you can accept it as payment. Of course I explained, If you have a product or service you can accept Bitcoin as a payment.  And his comment was, What do you mean accept it as payment. So I had to go through the whole process of what it is, Telling him itís a commodity that itís bought and sold like any other commodity. I told him how it came about, how itís being used and so on. To make a long story short. His statement was ďI donít trust itĒ I was like why? You can sell it and get your money (meaning fiat) or hold it and the value may go up or it may down. You can accept it as a payment, just like any other payments. Business are starting to accept it, you can accept.  But his finial decision still is ďI donít trust itĒ  I also told him to visit Bitcoin.org and here to see how itĎs being used.

I donít think he can grasp that itís not backed by a Government. Plus he didnít understand how you can mine for it. What do you mean? Mine for it on the net.

So the replies I get about Bitcoin are mixed. If someone understands commodities they understand how you get currency for it, but some donít understand the mining and the fact that itís not backed by a Government, itís backed by people.

So I guess one of my goals will be, Help people understand you can accept it by trusting otherís. You donít need big business or a Govt telling you something is worth something. Put some faith in people.
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Garr255
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July 14, 2012, 05:49:55 AM
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Please point people (and yourself) to the Bitcoin wiki. There's tons of information there.

Whoever "doesn't trust" Bitcoin or "thinks it is a scam" obviously doesn't know how it works. You have some reading to do Smiley

ďFirst they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.Ē  -- Mahatma Gandhi

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July 14, 2012, 05:55:07 AM
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There is no need to be an advocate for Bitcoin.  It will succeed or fail upon it's own merits, regardless of what you do.  And mistrust is a rational response to such a radical idea.  I didn't trust it either, when I first heard about it.  I felt that it had to be some kind of elaborate scam.  Yet, something about the idea kept gnawing at me until I had read the white paper about four times, and then something just clicked and I understood it.

And here I am.

Be patient with your friends.  For the first time ever this past Tuesday, I was approached by someone that I know and was asked, "have you heard about this bitcoin thing?" without a mention or prompt from myself in any fashion.  And it was at a county Republican Party executive meeting, no less.  I was more than happy to whip out my android phone and show him BitcoinSpinner.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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July 14, 2012, 06:03:10 AM
#4

I trust it.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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July 14, 2012, 06:37:05 AM
#5

. . .itís backed by people. . . you can accept it by trusting otherís. . .Put some faith in people.
I definitely don't trust people.  Especially random people on the internet who I don't know personally.  Fortunately I don't have to trust others to trust bitcoin.  Bitcoin is designed so that there is no need to trust others.

What I do trust (and is required for bitcoin to work) is math.  Specifically, I trust that the ECDSA (Elliptic Curve Digital Signature Algorithm) provides for a private key that cannot be determined mathematically when presented with the corresponding public address, and that there is a large enough pool of private keys that do not resolve to the public address to prohibit brute force solutions in a reasonable amount of time.  Furthermore, I trust that SHA (Secure Hash Algorithm) provides a hash such that the source data cannot be determined mathematically and that the pool and distribution of hashes is large and diverse enough to prohibit brute force solutions in a reasonable amount of time.

Of course, if I didn't trust ECDSA and SHA then I wouldn't be able to trust that any data on the internet could be stored or transmitted securely.  As such, I wouldn't be able to trust any bank or financial institution that allowed their customers access to their accounts over the internet.


The quality of posts has dropped to such a low level that all users who are participating in a paid signature campaign are added to my ignore list. If you'd like a copy of the list to improve your browsing experience, you can find it here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=973843.0 (Updated 2016-1-4)
Pappy
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July 15, 2012, 05:13:16 AM
#6

Been doing a lot of reading about Bitcoin, reading messages on here and visiting other sites.

I was just telling him about Bitcoin and his reply was "I don't trust it".
I guess I was a little surprised, because I've known the person for several years and they are usually open to new ideas and ways of doing things.

Not sure I understand it or trust it totally, but I like the idea.

I'm not a programer, I know enough PHP etc. to get myself into trouble Smiley So I'm not much help on that end.

About all I can do is help promote/support Bitcoin and other's that use it.
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July 15, 2012, 05:49:54 AM
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There is no need to be an advocate for Bitcoin.  It will succeed or fail upon it's own merits, regardless of what you do.  And mistrust is a rational response to such a radical idea.  I didn't trust it either, when I first heard about it.  I felt that it had to be some kind of elaborate scam.  Yet, something about the idea kept gnawing at me until I had read the white paper about four times, and then something just clicked and I understood it.

And here I am.

Be patient with your friends.  For the first time ever this past Tuesday, I was approached by someone that I know and was asked, "have you heard about this bitcoin thing?" without a mention or prompt from myself in any fashion.  And it was at a county Republican Party executive meeting, no less.  I was more than happy to whip out my android phone and show him BitcoinSpinner.

Unfortunately, newcomers have to dig a little to find the middle ground between "SCAM! PYRAMID! NOT BACKED BY ANYTHING!" and a good bit of ridiculous propaganda.
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July 15, 2012, 07:16:00 AM
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I remember a year ago just before the crash Bitcoin was rising massively and getting media attention, and that's how I found out about it. I didn't really care back then, but late January this year I thought back and remembered it and decided to look into it more. Here I am months later, I trust it. Sure I'm not a big investor and sure I'm almost always broke, but I always find myself wondering why money can't just be as simple as bitcoin.

I've explained bitcoin to a few people and friends, and most of them like the idea that it isn't backed by a government most.
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July 15, 2012, 09:12:46 AM
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I know this is going to sound harsh, but it's amazing to me how ignorant most people are about the nature of good money. I think they don't fully understand money in a theoretical sense: they rarely if ever have questioned the green paper in their pocket, despite the vital role it plays in their life.

If they don't get bitcoin after a bit of explaination, that's fine - it just means cheaper coins for us prior to critical mass adoption. No need to bring them up to speed. And for those who do get it and dislike it because of its properties ( because they're keynesians or whatever ), they don't deserve to benefit from it anyway.

That said, there are risks with a new technology, but I think it would be silly to not at least buy some coins if you comprehend it's potential. It wasn't long ago that they were 6 cents each and everyone was having fun with this "play money"...

As Gavin said: "It's a startup currency, which has never happened before." Great quote.
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July 15, 2012, 05:17:18 PM
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https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93078.0
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July 15, 2012, 05:55:11 PM
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I've alwayed learned that its better to lazyly bring Bitcoin on to people... first mention it... wait for questions. describe it a little bit... let them think... wait for more questions... repeat.

Also I never bringing up the mining process unless someone has the economical knowledge and wisdom to even "ask" how money(bitcoins) are distributed to others in the first place.

My two cents.... We'll figure out this "Explain Bitcoin" thing one of these days!
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July 15, 2012, 06:05:10 PM
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Took me 6 months of reading before I trusted BTC  Grin
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July 15, 2012, 06:56:46 PM
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Yeah it's hard to explain to someone how bitcoin works and what it actually is unless you give them at least an hour long lecture. I've tried telling a few people and they get the just of it but their eyes always glaze over. I think it's best to just show them the wiki, maybe tor network to grab their interest.
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July 15, 2012, 07:02:52 PM
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Trying to teach a stock broker about Bitcoin is like trying to teach a two year old that it's not okay to steal a baby's candy. Either way, there is going to be a lot of crying.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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July 15, 2012, 07:13:43 PM
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Been doing a lot of reading about Bitcoin, reading messages on here and visiting other sites.

I was just telling him about Bitcoin and his reply was "I don't trust it".




You are dealing with some one who thinks by analogy.  Because there is nothing he understands that is remotely *like* bitcoin he can't process it.  Most of us Bitcoiners think like science folks, we try to reason from basic principals.  Okay, blocks are time stamped and progress against massive compute power solving hashes (something i know a little about) restricting new block creation.  Private keys are generated using well established cryptography that hasn't been broken..etc  

Might help to give him a quick lesson on pgp.  Give him an example of how secure email works.  Ask him if he trusts that.  Tell him that bitcoins can only be sent by solving the same equation.  Point out how other theoretical attacks have already be thought thru and tried.  Take away being that bitcoin has survived it all and still hasn't been broken.  

If that doesn't work, tell him its like World of Warcraft gold only that its management is handled by an open source piece of software that is transparent.  Hell even open source is a foreign concept to many, the don't know what the implication is of an open program.

As a last resort, ask him what he DOES trust.  See if you can build from there.

"It is, quite honestly, the biggest challenge to central banking since Andrew Jackson." -evoorhees
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July 15, 2012, 07:14:16 PM
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I've alwayed learned that its better to lazyly bring Bitcoin on to people... first mention it... wait for questions. describe it a little bit... let them think... wait for more questions... repeat.

Also I never bringing up the mining process unless someone has the economical knowledge and wisdom to even "ask" how money(bitcoins) are distributed to others in the first place.

My two cents.... We'll figure out this "Explain Bitcoin" thing one of these days!
+1!

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July 15, 2012, 07:35:54 PM
#17

As a last resort, ask him what he DOES trust.  See if you can build from there.
+1

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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July 16, 2012, 01:29:36 AM
#18

I trust it.

+1

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.


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July 16, 2012, 01:41:31 AM
#19

I think the point of asking "what do you trust?" is to cause cognitive dissonance regarding the criteria for trust in money. Stock brokers know that everything is prone to more and more risk. Until they understand that they are building their portfolio on sand, will they finally understand that Bitcoin is based on math.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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July 16, 2012, 01:44:28 AM
#20

As a last resort, ask him what he DOES trust.  See if you can build from there.
+1
+1. I usually start the topic with commodities (e.g. gold, silver etc), and gradually bring the topic over to an 'Internet based commodity' which has all the traits of a physical commodity. It works.  Wink

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