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Author Topic: Help needed for my personal contribution to Bitcoinica customers  (Read 1699 times)
zhoutong
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July 15, 2012, 02:27:09 AM
 #1

Conclusion: The program has ended today.

You can expect your eligible payout in 48 hours. See the other thread for details.



=========== Archive ==============

Today I have been advised to withdraw myself from the personal contribution program. It's important to make it clear that I'm not involved with Bitcoinica's management and finance, and I had no financial interest since the transfer of ownership.

In any case, such kind of personal compensation program will only cause greater confusion for community members, and distract everyone from uncovering the secrets of Bitcoinica's operations and management. Even some of my own business transactions were regarded as "suspicious" and "potentially linked to the hack".

The total claim amount far exceeds the amount available in the pool, so everyone can only expect to receive 2-5% of their funds or even much less.

I'm now looking for a reputable community member to take over the compensation entirely. I will pass the credentials for claim system and the 5,000 BTC to that person as well as all the future Bitcoins sent to the donation address. I'll help to delete fake claims on a voluntary basis and the designated person will have absolute power to decide who to pay and how much to pay.

I sincerely hope that someone can volunteer to take over this job. If some payment is required for this job, I can also donate 50 BTC personally to the volunteer to facilitate the claim process.

Please self-nominate only. If you wish to nominate someone else, PM the person to ask him/her to come here to reply.

Thank you for all the trust and encouragement!

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

Donations for my future Bitcoin projects: 19Uk3tiD5XkBcmHyQYhJxp9QHoub7RosVb
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July 15, 2012, 02:29:54 AM
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ill do it. i predicted the switch that's going to happen tonight.

dancingnancy
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July 15, 2012, 03:07:37 AM
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I would be careful about revealing too much with your extra spreadsheet / database, ZT.  I believe this could open you up to questions about your behavior with past customer information.  I think you are legit, not sure if everyone else sees it like I do.  Anyway, everyone appreciates what you are trying to do.
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July 15, 2012, 03:09:41 AM
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I would be careful about revealing too much with your extra spreadsheet / database, ZT.  I believe this could open you up to questions about your behavior with past customer information.  I think you are legit, not sure if everyone else sees it like I do.  Anyway, everyone appreciates what you are trying to do.

I will avoid using any information obtained from Bitcoinica. I have some memory about these customers.

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

Donations for my future Bitcoin projects: 19Uk3tiD5XkBcmHyQYhJxp9QHoub7RosVb
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July 15, 2012, 03:50:14 AM
 #5

and how do you expect this someone distributes these funds exactly? solely based on people's word what they claim they're owed? how would this liaison know or verify who got 0%, 50% or 100% from bitcoinaca already?

maybe i'm missing something but this proposal looks to be ridiculously insane and anyone agreeing to it cannot even begin to imagine what kind of mess they will be getting themselves into
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July 15, 2012, 04:02:44 AM
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and how do you expect this someone distributes these funds exactly? solely based on people's word what they claim they're owed? how would this liaison know or verify who got 0%, 50% or 100% from bitcoinaca already?

maybe i'm missing something but this proposal looks to be ridiculously insane and anyone agreeing to it cannot even begin to imagine what kind of mess they will be getting themselves into

This is exactly the problem. I'm trying to do people a favor without any official feeling, but I realized that I couldn't do this.

I need someone to take over this, or I'll cancel the program entirely (and give people the option of distributing the money to myself or some charities).

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

Donations for my future Bitcoin projects: 19Uk3tiD5XkBcmHyQYhJxp9QHoub7RosVb
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July 15, 2012, 04:11:26 AM
 #7

Zhou, you have good intentions here, but i'm thinking if you can't do it yourself, no one else could do it either
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July 15, 2012, 06:06:21 AM
 #8

Considering the people with access and responsibility couldn't handle deciding who to pay I don't think any outsider is going to fare any better.

I know it isn't the same as giving to all Bitcoinica customers, but I think you can't go too far wrong paying the 5000 to Memory Dealers. His claim is clearly true, and if somehow people are paid in full or close he can be trusted to return it to you or someone else who can do the right thing.

If it seems too unfair to you or to other Bitcoinica customers you could just donate it to a trust to be controlled by Memory Dealers to be used for the benefit of Bitcoin in general. That ought be pleasing to MD since that's what he wants the coin for anyhow.

Really it is your money, but since you publicly pledged it to Bitcoinica users maybe it is too much like renigging on that, maybe gauge sentiment first.

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
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July 15, 2012, 06:51:49 AM
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and how do you expect this someone distributes these funds exactly? solely based on people's word what they claim they're owed? how would this liaison know or verify who got 0%, 50% or 100% from bitcoinaca already?

maybe i'm missing something but this proposal looks to be ridiculously insane and anyone agreeing to it cannot even begin to imagine what kind of mess they will be getting themselves into

This is exactly the problem. I'm trying to do people a favor without any official feeling, but I realized that I couldn't do this.

I need someone to take over this, or I'll cancel the program entirely (and give people the option of distributing the money to myself or some charities).

If you cancel, which is a pity, you could do it now and distribute the donation between the X smaller claims, so that 5000btc cover the maximum percentage possible, even if just a few people.

Edit:

Although I am the first defender for payment of the position (as I have a substantial long position), in this case I think you should ignore them.

Honestly, at this point my "Eligible payout" is enough to start again, as 90% of all my Bitcoins are in bitcoinica.

Sorry for my bad english Wink
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July 15, 2012, 07:02:43 AM
 #10

You should pay Roger from Memory Dealers imo.

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July 15, 2012, 07:29:36 AM
 #11

You should pay Roger from Memory Dealers imo.

I just received my portion of the funds from Zhou.
(Thank you Zhou)

I hope whoever the real owners of Bitcoinica are, step up and show a similar amount of class.

Zhou has my respect, and I think he will go far in life.

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July 15, 2012, 09:40:20 AM
 #12

+1

Zhou has returned 6.2% of my claimed value from his donations fund. Bitcoinica LP so far has returned 0.

Note: If Bitcoinica returns at least 70% of my deposits I *will* return this donation to Zhou.

Hat tip to you sir!

EDIT: Hey Zhou, after reading up on the thread a bit more I understand your donation fund received a 100 BTC donation from the MtGox thief is that correct? Did you return that 100BTC to Bitcoinica LP or is it included in the payouts to customers? If so that would create a conflict of interest for me and I'd prefer to return a portion of my received BTCs to make sure the verified stolen coins in the donation pool are returned to Bitcoinica LP so they can be used for the official reimbursement process.
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July 15, 2012, 10:19:34 AM
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+1

Zhou has returned 6.2% of my claimed value from his donations fund. Bitcoinica LP so far has returned 0.

Note: If Bitcoinica returns at least 70% of my deposits I *will* return this donation to Zhou.

Hat tip to you sir!

EDIT: Hey Zhou, after reading up on the thread a bit more I understand your donation fund received a 100 BTC donation from the MtGox thief is that correct? Did you return that 100BTC to Bitcoinica LP or is it included in the payouts to customers? If so that would create a conflict of interest for me and I'd prefer to return a portion of my received BTCs to make sure the verified stolen coins in the donation pool are returned to Bitcoinica LP so they can be used for the official reimbursement process.

The total amount in published "Eligble payout " is 5101.0102, so yes.

Sorry for my bad english Wink
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zhoutong
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July 15, 2012, 10:21:09 AM
 #14

+1

Zhou has returned 6.2% of my claimed value from his donations fund. Bitcoinica LP so far has returned 0.

Note: If Bitcoinica returns at least 70% of my deposits I *will* return this donation to Zhou.

Hat tip to you sir!

EDIT: Hey Zhou, after reading up on the thread a bit more I understand your donation fund received a 100 BTC donation from the MtGox thief is that correct? Did you return that 100BTC to Bitcoinica LP or is it included in the payouts to customers? If so that would create a conflict of interest for me and I'd prefer to return a portion of my received BTCs to make sure the verified stolen coins in the donation pool are returned to Bitcoinica LP so they can be used for the official reimbursement process.

I treated the 100 BTC donation as all other donations. There's no conflict of interest if you don't believe in the concept of tainted coins. All coins are created equal.

I used the official client to send the funds, so I can't control which "coin" to send users. It's also possible that the "tainted coins" were mixed into my own wallet. In this case I might be wronged but I think it can be explained nevertheless.

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

Donations for my future Bitcoin projects: 19Uk3tiD5XkBcmHyQYhJxp9QHoub7RosVb
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July 15, 2012, 10:46:48 AM
 #15

+1

Zhou has returned 6.2% of my claimed value from his donations fund. Bitcoinica LP so far has returned 0.

Note: If Bitcoinica returns at least 70% of my deposits I *will* return this donation to Zhou.

Hat tip to you sir!

EDIT: Hey Zhou, after reading up on the thread a bit more I understand your donation fund received a 100 BTC donation from the MtGox thief is that correct? Did you return that 100BTC to Bitcoinica LP or is it included in the payouts to customers? If so that would create a conflict of interest for me and I'd prefer to return a portion of my received BTCs to make sure the verified stolen coins in the donation pool are returned to Bitcoinica LP so they can be used for the official reimbursement process.

I treated the 100 BTC donation as all other donations. There's no conflict of interest if you don't believe in the concept of tainted coins. All coins are created equal.

I used the official client to send the funds, so I can't control which "coin" to send users. It's also possible that the "tainted coins" were mixed into my own wallet. In this case I might be wronged but I think it can be explained nevertheless.

I agree that all coins are created equal and I am not talking about tainted coins, I'm saying that if you *know* that 100 BTC comes directly from the theft (https://blockchain.info/tree/12134191 ) then the ethical thing to do is return 100 BTC to the rightful owner (doesn't have to be the exact same coins IMHO).

I understand it might be a bit late now for Zhou to reverse this action so I'm willing to send 100 BTC from the donation I received to Bitcoinica LP if requested (by an official representative).
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July 15, 2012, 11:27:38 AM
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I agree that all coins are created equal and I am not talking about tainted coins, I'm saying that if you *know* that 100 BTC comes directly from the theft (https://blockchain.info/tree/12134191 ) then the ethical thing to do is return 100 BTC to the rightful owner (doesn't have to be the exact same coins IMHO).

The 100 BTC were in fact returned to the rightful owners, or didn't you read that part about genjix saying Bitcoinica's customers would take the loss? I figured that meant customers were the victims of the theft, not Bitcoinica Wink

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July 15, 2012, 11:52:13 AM
 #17

Hey, ZT, that was nice of you.  Any bit helps in this instance, I was surprised when I woke up this morning and checked my wallet.  Thanks again, man.
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July 15, 2012, 05:54:04 PM
 #18

I would be willing to do this but I dont have many credentials here except that I have meet some of the member of this forum during 2 bitcoins "irl" (davout among others).
So it is probably better if someone better known than me can take volunteer for this.

"sirk" (christian) is a good friend of mine as well and active as he is participating in the berlin bitcoin hackaton and have been to various bitcoin conferences & meetings

I am willing to disclose everything regarding my real life identity (my name Emilien Dutang and I live in Paris)

I am not sure about how we should proceed, wether we should wait for the bitcoinica official stance or not. I would like the payouts to be distributed in the fairest way as possible and for that I would like to have the info from the intersango team about who has been paid or not so we can distribute the money in the best way possible

Zhou stated that the person responsible would have absolute power and if I am in charge of this I would do nothing but split based on % of the claim as zhou has already done. Any other way of distributing funds would be unfair

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July 15, 2012, 07:59:24 PM
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I would be willing to do this but I dont have many credentials here except that I have meet some of the member of this forum during 2 bitcoins "irl" (davout among others).
So it is probably better if someone better known than me can take volunteer for this.

"sirk" (christian) is a good friend of mine as well and active as he is participating in the berlin bitcoin hackaton and have been to various bitcoin conferences & meetings

I am willing to disclose everything regarding my real life identity (my name Emilien Dutang and I live in Paris)

I am not sure about how we should proceed, wether we should wait for the bitcoinica official stance or not. I would like the payouts to be distributed in the fairest way as possible and for that I would like to have the info from the intersango team about who has been paid or not so we can distribute the money in the best way possible

Zhou stated that the person responsible would have absolute power and if I am in charge of this I would do nothing but split based on % of the claim as zhou has already done. Any other way of distributing funds would be unfair

See upthread.  Zhou ended up doing it himself yesterday afternoon.

In order to avoid confusion, you might want to lock this thread now Zhou.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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