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Author Topic: Where else can the price go (in the long term) but up?  (Read 2535 times)
ribuck
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July 18, 2012, 11:23:20 AM
 #21


    - people finally discover how hard it is to hold on to their coins in face of determined hackers
      (i.e. not the script kiddie level hacks we've seen so far), but stuff at the level of stuxnet


this is the only real threat

how hard is it to print out this page https://www.bitaddress.org/ and send the coins their to the paper wallet?

That illustrates a weakness, not a strength.

Someone will host a similar page that sends the private key back to the server. Then they send out 100 million emails telling people to "click here to make their bitcoins safe with a paper wallet".

The biggest contribution of Bitcoin to society may not be the monetary improvement that it brings; it may be the improvements that it forces to be developed for computer security.
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floeti
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July 18, 2012, 02:38:24 PM
 #22

Nevertheless, I think this problem can be solved by using something like smartcards, which store the private keys and are able to sign transactions (with prior decryption through a passphrase). So the private keys never leave the smart card. Combine this with some kind of dedicated smart card interface-device, that displays the to-be-signed transaction and one should be reasonably safe. This concept is not new at all, but unfortunately not availiable for bitcoin, yet. Expect huge price jumps, if it is announced!  Grin

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July 18, 2012, 02:49:28 PM
 #23

Here's why bitcoin price increases are just getting started:


img6.imageshack.us/img6/7319/028trillions.png

The infographic is part of a larger presentation on the potential of bitcoin which I made.

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July 18, 2012, 02:53:01 PM
 #24

Nevertheless, I think this problem can be solved by using something like smartcards, which store the private keys and are able to sign transactions (with prior decryption through a passphrase). So the private keys never leave the smart card. Combine this with some kind of dedicated smart card interface-device, that displays the to-be-signed transaction and one should be reasonably safe. This concept is not new at all, but unfortunately not availiable for bitcoin, yet. Expect huge price jumps, if it is announced!  Grin
http://bitcoincard.org/
forum threads about it:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78171.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=85832.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=88645.0
notme
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July 18, 2012, 02:56:02 PM
 #25

Here's why bitcoin price increases are just getting started:


The infographic is part of a larger presentation on the potential of bitcoin which I made.

You're getting pretty close to spamming.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
12jh3odyAAaR2XedPKZNCR4X4sebuotQzN
dacoinminster
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July 18, 2012, 03:05:28 PM
 #26


You're getting pretty close to spamming.

Relevant infographic is relevant!

There just happens to be a lot of different threads about this right now Smiley

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July 18, 2012, 03:07:22 PM
 #27

Here's why bitcoin price increases are just getting started:
The infographic is part of a larger presentation on the potential of bitcoin which I made.

You're getting pretty close to spamming.

Not only that he is ignoring relevant criticism of why the chart is deceptive to newcomers.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
dacoinminster
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July 18, 2012, 03:14:24 PM
 #28

Not only that he is ignoring relevant criticism of why the chart is deceptive to newcomers.

I think you are probably referring to the fact that the forex blob is transactional money rather than money-supply-style money. I didn't even include options and futures and other derivatives for just that reason. Still, the point is: LOTS of money may be trying to fit into a few itty bitty bitcoins. Make your own infographic if you want to represent that idea more accurately Smiley

floeti
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July 18, 2012, 07:24:31 PM
 #29

Nevertheless, I think this problem can be solved by using something like smartcards, which store the private keys and are able to sign transactions (with prior decryption through a passphrase). So the private keys never leave the smart card. Combine this with some kind of dedicated smart card interface-device, that displays the to-be-signed transaction and one should be reasonably safe. This concept is not new at all, but unfortunately not availiable for bitcoin, yet. Expect huge price jumps, if it is announced!  Grin
http://bitcoincard.org/
forum threads about it:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78171.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=85832.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=88645.0
I know about this, but it's not quite what I meant. As far as I can see, there is no possibility to password protect the keys, nor is there a possibility to make a physical backup of the keys. So if the hardware breaks, your coins are lost. So it's not secure enough to store many coins over a longer term. Nevertheless Bitcoincard will be great for everyday use.

Serge
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July 18, 2012, 07:44:15 PM
 #30

Nevertheless, I think this problem can be solved by using something like smartcards, which store the private keys and are able to sign transactions (with prior decryption through a passphrase). So the private keys never leave the smart card. Combine this with some kind of dedicated smart card interface-device, that displays the to-be-signed transaction and one should be reasonably safe. This concept is not new at all, but unfortunately not availiable for bitcoin, yet. Expect huge price jumps, if it is announced!  Grin
http://bitcoincard.org/
forum threads about it:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78171.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=85832.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=88645.0
I know about this, but it's not quite what I meant. As far as I can see, there is no possibility to password protect the keys, nor is there a possibility to make a physical backup of the keys. So if the hardware breaks, your coins are lost. So it's not secure enough to store many coins over a longer term. Nevertheless Bitcoincard will be great for everyday use.

you can store the keys on paper in safe or safe deposit box, you can also make a brain wallet with a passphrase that only you know and not have private keys anywhere else until you have to restore them to access coins from your brainwallet
istar
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July 18, 2012, 08:28:50 PM
 #31

Quote

I think you forgot the most important one. People get bored, sell the Btc, and go do other things.
Price of btc falls and this miniscule group of people keep proclaiming btc will go big this year.

You think people get bored on a currency that can easily reach $5000 in the coming years 10-20 years if only 0.1% of the blackmarket uses Bitcoin....Now thats excluding porn, gambling, gold, money transfer market, entertainment industry, games, micropayments, food, restaurants, export/import etc.

Though when I think about it I know one person that got bored last year.
But I´m quite sure he will be back soon or is.

Though I think many of those who get bored will just leave a few coins just in case.

Think about this, when you sell at $5 you sell to someone who will sell at $6 or $10 or $50 or some will keep it as a lottery ticket and only sell at $100 $500 etc. After a while there is noone left who will sell at $5.

Now price reach $6. And some people think great I will sell now. They sell to people who will want to sell at $7 or $10 or $25 or $64 or $500.
And if the price goes down, some people will just think. Hey I will wait until the price moves up. Other will see this as a great buying opportunity.

Sure some will panic, but they will go away after a while and than maybe regret their panic and become hardened as the price goes back up and new people/investors comes in.

Ofcourse some need to sell and some just use Bitcoin to transfer money.  But most of what is sold today is sold to someone who keeps until the price goes up. This is a upward spiral as less and less coins are produced.

And as the price rise, it will get more and more people and companies interested, creating a bigger and bigger upward spiral.

If there were 100,000 who each had 210 coins all coins would be bought...That how few coins there will be. A coin is like quite many goldbars.
Ofcourse 100,00 does not create a market, unless its the world richest 100,000...

My advice to those getting bored.
If you get bored, take a profit but keep atleast some, you dont want to find that you have to buy back in at 50% higher.

Also remember the tulip bubble? One tulip could buy a house. That was in one not that big country. Now Bitcoin is in the whole world...
But unlike tulips, and FIAT they can not be copied.
 

Bitcoins - Because we should not pay to use our money
ElectricMucus
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July 18, 2012, 08:33:25 PM
 #32

Not only that he is ignoring relevant criticism of why the chart is deceptive to newcomers.

I think you are probably referring to the fact that the forex blob is transactional money rather than money-supply-style money. I didn't even include options and futures and other derivatives for just that reason. Still, the point is: LOTS of money may be trying to fit into a few itty bitty bitcoins. Make your own infographic if you want to represent that idea more accurately Smiley
Yes I get the point.

But excuse me, IF you were open to criticism you would try to improve your graphic to more accurately represent the situation. But you don't. Why should I be bothered with it? Alright I'll do it for 10BTC if you want me to contact me if you like.
Otherwise do your thing and don't be snippy if some responses aren't always positive.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
floeti
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July 18, 2012, 09:12:34 PM
 #33

Nevertheless, I think this problem can be solved by using something like smartcards, which store the private keys and are able to sign transactions (with prior decryption through a passphrase). So the private keys never leave the smart card. Combine this with some kind of dedicated smart card interface-device, that displays the to-be-signed transaction and one should be reasonably safe. This concept is not new at all, but unfortunately not availiable for bitcoin, yet. Expect huge price jumps, if it is announced!  Grin
http://bitcoincard.org/
forum threads about it:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78171.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=85832.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=88645.0
I know about this, but it's not quite what I meant. As far as I can see, there is no possibility to password protect the keys, nor is there a possibility to make a physical backup of the keys. So if the hardware breaks, your coins are lost. So it's not secure enough to store many coins over a longer term. Nevertheless Bitcoincard will be great for everyday use.

you can store the keys on paper in safe or safe deposit box, you can also make a brain wallet with a passphrase that only you know and not have private keys anywhere else until you have to restore them to access coins from your brainwallet
As far as I understood the Bitcoincard generates the private keys and they can never leave the device. So a paper wallet or brainwallet would not work.

n8rwJeTt8TrrLKPa55eU
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July 20, 2012, 01:05:19 AM
 #34

Just about every single financial news story coming out since 2008 points to ever-increasing monetary debasement and capital controls.  Bitcoin is the single most natural recipient of future diversification demand from anyone wanting to store value outside the house of cards that's the current banking system.  Millionaires can diversify into Picassos, but Joe Sixpack will only have two options when the fear hits in earnest: precious metals and Bitcoin.  Today from ZeroHedge:

"A key proposal would give money market fund managers the option to suspend redemptions to allow for the orderly liquidation of fund assets."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/government-your-legal-right-redeem-your-money-market-account-has-been-denied-sequel

As in the 70s with gold, the Bitcoin price is unlikely to stop rising until you see grandmothers standing in long lines at their bank, panicking to withdraw cash so they can turn around and make BitInstant deposits.
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