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Author Topic: Government issued internet ID (potential problem?)  (Read 1691 times)
hazek
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May 22, 2011, 05:37:25 PM
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So this guy is being a wise ass about a potential method of how the government could shut down bitcoin. Please respond to his accusations:

from: http://www.dailypaul.com/160149/bitcoins-the-digital-cryptocurrency-of-freedom

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Bitcoins are just digital bits that have no real substance or value. You can't bury them. You can't make something useful out of them.

The Govt can shut down bitcoins at whim. The Govt is going to implement packet-based authentication for the internet soon and packet-based authentication is the death-knell for bitcoins. Game over at the Govt's whim.

Packet-based authentication is old-as-the-hills and is BUILT-IN to every network device manufactured in the last 10+ years and is the ONLY way to implement an internet id ("internet driver license") as Obama and others (McCain, Rockefeller, etc)have recently suggested/requested. You can't just verify the first packet upon connection for a stream and have full security. You must identify the sender of every packet.

Obama moves forward with Internet ID plan
http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20054342-281.html

"Internet Protocol Security (IPsec) is a protocol suite for securing Internet Protocol (IP) communications by authenticating and encrypting each IP packet of a communication session. IPsec also includes protocols for establishing mutual authentication between agents at the beginning of the session and negotiation of cryptographic keys to be used during the session."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPsec

IBM is heavily pushing SKIP...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Key-Management_for_Inter...

Again, the Govt has recently declared competing currency a s a type of terrorism and imprisoned someone over it (NotHaus).

Packet-based authentication + Govt issuded internet id + bitcoin is a competing currency = bye-bye bitcoin

Packet-based authentication is the centerpiece of internet2.

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wumpus
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May 22, 2011, 05:40:22 PM
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Why wouldn't you be able to run P2P over IPsec?

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hazek
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May 22, 2011, 05:42:21 PM
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Hey don't ask me. Just respond to his claims please so I can shut him up.

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Sawzall
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May 22, 2011, 05:45:04 PM
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I think he's grossly misinformed about IPSec. It works basically like SSL. The authentication just proves that you're communicating with who you think.
An Internet license cannot be implemented in IPSec the way he proposes. There is no way that every single device could be updated to track who licenses have been issued to, and IPSec can be turned off. It's usually not used by default.
Also, SKIP is dead and it was irrelevant to his point.
Don't bother replying to him. He obviously failed to read those articles.
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May 22, 2011, 05:47:41 PM
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There is no way that every single device could be updated to track who licenses have been issued to.
Then again, even if that was the case, how is it different from now? It is already possible to sniff and find out who is behind an IP adress through legal means. Granted, such a system would make it easier to do, but I don't see how it would make the 'end of bitcoin', or tor and other P2P networks for that matter.

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May 22, 2011, 05:49:48 PM
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And the proposal is not for a mandatory Internet license. It's basically a more secure way than passwords to verify identities online. It's totally optional for anyone involved.
hazek
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May 22, 2011, 05:55:06 PM
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Yeah but I think his argument was that the government could make it mandatory..

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benjamindees
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May 22, 2011, 05:56:01 PM
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Social Security was optional when it was introduced.

Regardless, ipsec isn't an internet ID and internet ID will take at least a decade to implement.  Until then, the NSA already sifts through a good portion of internet traffic and anyone on these forums probably has a permanent tap already.

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May 22, 2011, 06:05:56 PM
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Also... USA =/= the world

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May 22, 2011, 06:06:46 PM
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1) Anonymity is a bonus when you use Bitcoin, not a requirement. Most users don't care about strong anonymity anyhow.

2) Virtual Private Networks can be layered on top of a censored internet.  

3) Pseudonymous Networks (such as i2p, Tor, Freenet) can be layered on top of a censored internet.

4) Since it's low bandwidth, the bitcoin protocol can steganographically communicate over almost anything, such as email attachments.

5) Push comes to shove, Bitcoin doesn't need the "official" internet.  Bitcoin-over-shortwave, anyone?

6) The US does not control all of the internet.

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Basiley
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May 22, 2011, 06:09:50 PM
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hardly it can stop BitCoin.
workaround shouldn't be complex.
Yeah but I think his argument was that the government could make it mandatory..
no. they can't.
they can't  "make" mandatory things, official declared mandatory for decades.
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May 22, 2011, 06:14:59 PM
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Quote
Submitted by Evil Warlord on Sat, 05/21/2011 - 18:49.

The "encrypted traffic" relies on the same wretched old factorization problem that was cracked back in 2002 with tangent-delta sine analysis.

The NSA can crack a 4096 bit composite number in just under a second with a 286, and the time scales linearly.

Last I heard, teenagers in Nigeria were equipped with something slightly better than a 286.
this guy is funny. Smiley
gigitrix
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May 22, 2011, 06:19:46 PM
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The US can kill their internet all they want, as I live overseas. There's 0 chance of a global internet ID without a global New World Order, and even the tinfoil hatters of this forum would agree that isn't happening anytime soon!

tl;dr: Bitcoins are safe.
Sawzall
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May 22, 2011, 06:20:13 PM
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There's also no way "Internet licenses" could be implemented because people will believe ridiculous lies about Obama. Just tell some story about how he's trying to kick the Tea Party off the Internet or some shit.
Also, if Congress wouldn't go for net neutrality, they won't go for this.
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May 22, 2011, 07:49:07 PM
 #15

for one thing "soon" to the united states government can mean 100 years

and for another since when is BitCoin a one country currency?

this article is vastly mis informed, the U.S. does not even have the same basic network infrastructure as some of our European friends yet we plan to completely change the rules of it?

special interest groups (i.e. hollywood, mpaa, riaa, teaparty etc) are always trying to use mis information to push their own agendas.

greed and its interested parties are always going to try to take down things they dont understand that they feel are a threat to their way of life (and support to their bank accounts)
check out stealthisfilm.com

as long as the pirate bay is still standing
i wouldent worry about a take down of the btc network just yet ;>
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