Done something nice today? Sorry, someone else did that!

[myrkul]

See what I did there?  And people have a problem with this...why?

If he had said only the things you highlighted in the second example, then we'd have no problem with it. But he didn't. He also said those things you highlighted in the first example. Those phrases change the meaning of the speech from "Hey, isn't this system we've built together great?" to "Fuck your achievements. That's all the system's doing, you didn't do shit."

[1713580416]

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[the joint]

See what I did there?  And people have a problem with this...why?

If he had said only the things you highlighted in the second example, then we'd have no problem with it. But he didn't. He also said those things you highlighted in the first example. Those phrases change the meaning of the speech from "Hey, isn't this system we've built together great?" to "Fuck your achievements. That's all the system's doing, you didn't do shit."

 

Uh, what?

And if he had only said the things that I highlighted in the first example, then people would have just reason to have a problem with it.  But he didn't.  He also said those things I highlighted in the second example.  Those phrases change the meaning of the speech from, "Fuck your achievements" to "Hey, isn't this system we've built together great?"

Again, see what I did there?

Regardless, here's a fine example.  Your parents made you.  Without your parents, you wouldn't have been able to do jack shit.  So, the reason anybody's company exists to begin with is because of parents.

In other words, no, no company in the history of this entire planet could have been established without others, nor could anything have ever been built without others.

Obama acknowledged both individuals and groups.  Quit the black or white garbage when it's clearly both.

[myrkul]

Obama acknowledged both individuals and groups.  Quit the black or white garbage when it's clearly both.

He acknowledged both, true, but minimized individual achievements, and glorified the group.

[grantbdev]

In the future, children will be so individualist that they won't have to be free loading (talk about PARASITES) in a womb for 9 months!

[myrkul]

In the future, children will be so individualist that they won't have to be free loading (talk about PARASITES) in a womb for 9 months!

You laugh, but... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_uterus

You may be right. Talk about woman's lib!

[grantbdev]

In the future, children will be so individualist that they won't have to be free loading (talk about PARASITES) in a womb for 9 months!

You laugh, but... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_uterus

You may be right. Talk about woman's lib!

O Brave New World!

[the joint]

Obama acknowledged both individuals and groups.  Quit the black or white garbage when it's clearly both.

He acknowledge both, true, but minimized individual achievements, and glorified the group.

Sounds humble.  Wouldn't that imply that Obama is also minimizing his own victory in the 2008 election?  I.e. he couldn't have done it without the people?

Btw, I don't vote and I don't care for either Obama or Romney.

[myrkul]

Obama acknowledged both individuals and groups.  Quit the black or white garbage when it's clearly both.

He acknowledged both, true, but minimized individual achievements, and glorified the group.

Sounds humble.  Wouldn't that imply that Obama is also minimizing his own victory in the 2008 election?  I.e. he couldn't have done it without the people?

Btw, I don't vote and I don't care for either Obama or Romney.

Sounds socialist. He's denying the power of great individuals to change society. Denying the very basis the country he sits at the steering wheel of is based on.

[grantbdev]

Sounds socialist. He's denying the power of great individuals to change society. Denying the very basis the country he sits at the steering wheel of is based on.

Yep, we just need to remember the Founding Fathers.

This country (or any country for that matter) isn't about living and doing things alone. A country is not comprised of any single individual, it is a collection of individuals that are deeply interconnected. You either recognize that, or you don't.

Even Bitcoin is the result of a collection of individuals working together. Yes, Satoshi made the initial program, but what is that worth if it wasn't for us that continue to give it some value?

EDIT: Oh, and I forgot to mention that Bitcoin was also made possible by all the advancements in technology before that.

A group cannot function without individuals to make up the group.
One individual, alone, in a "state of nature" type setting, is not very useful.

[myrkul]

Sounds socialist. He's denying the power of great individuals to change society. Denying the very basis the country he sits at the steering wheel of is based on.

Yep, we just need to remember the Founding Fathers.

This country (or any country for that matter) isn't about living and doing things alone. A country is not comprised of any single individual, it is a collection of individuals that are deeply interconnected. You either recognize that, or you don't.

Even Bitcoin is the result of a collection of individuals working together. Yes, Satoshi made the initial program, but what is that worth if it wasn't for us that continue to give it some value?

No man is an island. I recognize that. And yes, you cannot build a business without customers. Yes, Bitcoin wouldn't be worth anything without all the users. But only one user put together the initial protocol. Only one user wrote the original white paper. The user who we know as Satoshi. As I said earlier: Yes, I stand upon the shoulders of giants, but I climbed up here.

[grantbdev]

No man is an island. I recognize that. And yes, you cannot build a business without customers. Yes, Bitcoin wouldn't be worth anything without all the users. But only one user put together the initial protocol. Only one user wrote the original white paper. The user who we know as Satoshi. As I said earlier: Yes, I stand upon the shoulders of giants, but I climbed up here.

I agree with everything you just said, and I agree President Obama's intended sentiment (although that speech writer should be fired) even though I am not a statist.

[asdf]

Yes. Society is made of of interdependent actors trading voluntarily. Well done Obama!

The government just stole my wealth to pay for services that we either don't want or that it won't allow others to provide.

[myrkul]

I agree with everything you just said, and I agree President Obama's intended sentiment (although that speech writer should be fired) even though I am not a statist.

I don't disagree with what I think his intended sentiment was, either, but what he meant, "We should recognize the advantages working together has given us," versus what he said, "If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen," is what really gets me.

Bitcoin without users is still a great piece of cryptographic math. Bitcoin without Satoshi is Paypal.

[the joint]

I agree with everything you just said, and I agree President Obama's intended sentiment (although that speech writer should be fired) even though I am not a statist.

I don't disagree with what I think his intended sentiment was, either, but what he meant, "We should recognize the advantages working together has given us," versus what he said, "If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen," is what really gets me.

Bitcoin without users is still a great piece of cryptographic math. Bitcoin without Satoshi is Paypal.

You're the type of person that would have a problem with the phrase "all men are created equal" too, wouldn't you?  And for the same reasons.

[myrkul]

You're the type of person that would have a problem with the phrase "all men are created equal" too, wouldn't you?  And for the same reasons.

Because we are not. Unless you can do math in your head like Stephen Hawking, and also run as fast as Usain Bolt.

All men are created with equal opportunity. Not equal ability.

[grantbdev]

You're the type of person that would have a problem with the phrase "all men are created equal" too, wouldn't you?  And for the same reasons.

Because we are not. Unless you can do math in your head like Stephen Hawking, and also run as fast as Usain Bolt.

All men are created with equal opportunity. Not equal ability.

I even disagree that all people are created with equal opportunity.

[the joint]

You're the type of person that would have a problem with the phrase "all men are created equal" too, wouldn't you?  And for the same reasons.

Because we are not. Unless you can do math in your head like Stephen Hawking, and also run as fast as Usain Bolt.

All men are created with equal opportunity. Not equal ability.

Do you have any idea what you're saying?

Where to begin...

First of all, I don't think opportunity means what you think it means if you're isolating it from ability.  Equal opportunity = inequal non-opportunity, or, essentially, equal circumstance.  Guess what, if you're born different, then your opportunities will be different.

If you're born inequal, your opportunities will be inequal.   Moreover, who is to say that rights are equal if people are born inequal?  Why should they be equal?  You're confusing what you think should be the case (i.e. people should have equal opportunities) with reality (i.e. people have inequal abilities).  Stay congruent.

Now, let's just assume that what you're saying is true.  Alright, so if people are born with inequal abilities (or, inequal socioeconomic status), then some people will rise to the top and have power over you.  Or, some groups of people will.  Right now, the government is one such group of people.  It wields an inequal amount of power and they can exercise it however they choose because you can't stop them.  Naturally, the end result of this will be inequal opportunities because those that are more closely connected to those in power will have the opportunistic advantages of the powerful.

Ugh, it really bothers me when people say cliche shit that does not make any sense whatsoever.  You know what happens when we get people questioning things like "all men are created equal?"  We get people that breach social contracts and become selfish assholes.  Guess what -- when you're a part of a group, you can hurt yourself by hurting the group (a la metagame theory).  

Are people individuals?  Yes.  I'm all for individual accomplishments and achievements, and there is a time and place for individual recognition since individual recognition of accomplishments facilitates motivation and positive self-esteem.  But it is absolutely impossible to isolate an individual event from the collective.  It's logically absurd.

[myrkul]

I even disagree that all people are created with equal opportunity.

First of all, I don't think opportunity means what you think it means if you're isolating it from ability. 

Perhaps "opportunity" was the wrong word to use. "Rights" would have been better. That one society or another does not respect some of these rights does not remove them.

You know what happens when we get people questioning things like "all men are created equal?"  We get people that breach social contracts and become selfish assholes.  Guess what -- when you're a part of a group, you can hurt yourself by hurting the group (a la metagame theory). 

I agree, the individual does have to recognize and appreciate the group that they are a part of. But that needs to go both ways, or the individual will decide not to be a part of that group any more.

But it is absolutely impossible to isolate an individual event from the collective.  It's logically absurd.

Uhm....

Ugh, it really bothers me when people say cliche shit that does not make any sense whatsoever. 

[Slushpuppy]

 

You know what happens when we get people questioning things like "all men are created equal?"  We get people that breach social contracts and become selfish assholes.

The social contract is not to agress against others. This includes not letting the government agress against us via taxes.

[Bitcoin Oz]

I guess satoshi didnt build bitcoin either. Id like to know which government program created it....