adaseb (OP)
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January 30, 2015, 10:36:07 PM |
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It is now a good time to buy miners with fiat, if you believe than BTC price will raise. good way to get positive ROI sooner.
As always, as it was in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015....if you believe the price will rise, just buy the Bitcoin. You're throwing away money and wasting time buying miners, if you're doing it strictly on speculation. Too many factors against mining: electrical costs, downtime, upkeep, maintenance, cooling, difficulty, pool variance Just buy BTC at the moment, it's at a discount price! ![Cool](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cool.gif) Bad logic. There are many reasons why buying a miner could be better than buying BTC. If people really believe that BTC will definitively increase in value, then the best option would seem to be selling everything you own for BTC that isn't essential to your immediate survival. Obviously, that would be an unbelievably risky move, so basically anyone will factor in at least *some* level of risk. For those who don't mind risk, buying BTC outright may be preferable. However, if you hate risk, buying a miner can be a much safer option, especially in a bear market. The trade off for that extra security is decreased profit potential over the long haul. You don't buy miners when the price slumps, you just buy BTC, if you're speculating on a price hike. You DO buy miners when the BTC fiat price is high, as it's more prohibitive to buy the coin outright, then it is to generate small amounts of it daily in hopes of making your fiat investment back. Simple math for ROI, dude. BTC In<=BTC Out Buying a miner now with fiat, no matter which miners, you'll net negative BTC. If you bought a miner for $500, mine back half a Bitcoin and Bitcoin spikes to $920 a Bitcoin, you're thinking, "WOW, I made back my investment!" WRONG! If you had bought $500 worth of Bitcoin, you'd have over 2 Bitcoins at today's price. It's throwing good money at bad investments. Wrong. You didn't consider the fact that you can get a miner DIRT cheap these days and if you have FREE electricity you have a higher chance of making money then buying BTC and hoping you sell it at a higher price then you bought it for. Also the ASIC after 6 months or 12 months you can re-sell to get some % of your money back.
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foxbitcoin
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
January 30, 2015, 11:55:14 PM |
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So what is the point in mining ? Surely theres a rig that can be built that could pay for itself and earn real money ![Huh](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/huh.gif)
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the joint
Legendary
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Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020
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January 31, 2015, 12:00:49 AM |
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It is now a good time to buy miners with fiat, if you believe than BTC price will raise. good way to get positive ROI sooner.
As always, as it was in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015....if you believe the price will rise, just buy the Bitcoin. You're throwing away money and wasting time buying miners, if you're doing it strictly on speculation. Too many factors against mining: electrical costs, downtime, upkeep, maintenance, cooling, difficulty, pool variance Just buy BTC at the moment, it's at a discount price! ![Cool](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cool.gif) Bad logic. There are many reasons why buying a miner could be better than buying BTC. If people really believe that BTC will definitively increase in value, then the best option would seem to be selling everything you own for BTC that isn't essential to your immediate survival. Obviously, that would be an unbelievably risky move, so basically anyone will factor in at least *some* level of risk. For those who don't mind risk, buying BTC outright may be preferable. However, if you hate risk, buying a miner can be a much safer option, especially in a bear market. The trade off for that extra security is decreased profit potential over the long haul. You don't buy miners when the price slumps, you just buy BTC, if you're speculating on a price hike. You DO buy miners when the BTC fiat price is high, as it's more prohibitive to buy the coin outright, then it is to generate small amounts of it daily in hopes of making your fiat investment back. Simple math for ROI, dude. BTC In<=BTC Out Buying a miner now with fiat, no matter which miners, you'll net negative BTC. If you bought a miner for $500, mine back half a Bitcoin and Bitcoin spikes to $920 a Bitcoin, you're thinking, "WOW, I made back my investment!" WRONG! If you had bought $500 worth of Bitcoin, you'd have over 2 Bitcoins at today's price. It's throwing good money at bad investments. Responding sequentially: 1) First of all, when the price of btc falls, the fiat cost of miners also decreases. Second, speculation exists to varied degree. How much you believe in your speculation significantly determines your investment strategy and how much risk you are willing to take. Buying a miner can be a way to carry less risk under not so uncommon conditions. 2) The cost of BTC in and of itself has absolutely no bearing on ROI. By this I mean that you can theoretically profit at any price level above $0. 3) Simple math for ROI, dude. Fiat in <= fiat out 4) Uh, no, you're wrong. If you pay $500 for a miner and mine 1 BTC and sell the btc for $920, then your profit is $420 (excluding other expenditures). If you buy with fiat, then profits are tracked in fiat. If you buy with BTC, then profits are tracked in BTC. The flaw in your reasoning is that you are making an advisement based upon the assumption that the price will *certainly* be higher in the future. But what if the market goes down? If you buy BTC and the price goes down, you *always* take a loss. But with a miner it is possible to get >100% in a down market. Also consider that you still have the value of your hardware. 5) Sure, you could buy more than 2 BTC at these prices, but if the price falls then you have 2 less valuable BTC. And, if the price goes down, difficulty can go down and you mine more BTC. 6) I've owned numerous rigs and ASICs that have achieved 100% ROI *solely* due to the fact that I either paid with fiat directly, or paid wth BTC but immediately repurchased the amount I spent. In a few cases, the difference was >300%.
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ChuckBuck
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
February 02, 2015, 03:38:56 PM |
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It is now a good time to buy miners with fiat, if you believe than BTC price will raise. good way to get positive ROI sooner.
As always, as it was in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015....if you believe the price will rise, just buy the Bitcoin. You're throwing away money and wasting time buying miners, if you're doing it strictly on speculation. Too many factors against mining: electrical costs, downtime, upkeep, maintenance, cooling, difficulty, pool variance Just buy BTC at the moment, it's at a discount price! ![Cool](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cool.gif) Bad logic. There are many reasons why buying a miner could be better than buying BTC. If people really believe that BTC will definitively increase in value, then the best option would seem to be selling everything you own for BTC that isn't essential to your immediate survival. Obviously, that would be an unbelievably risky move, so basically anyone will factor in at least *some* level of risk. For those who don't mind risk, buying BTC outright may be preferable. However, if you hate risk, buying a miner can be a much safer option, especially in a bear market. The trade off for that extra security is decreased profit potential over the long haul. You don't buy miners when the price slumps, you just buy BTC, if you're speculating on a price hike. You DO buy miners when the BTC fiat price is high, as it's more prohibitive to buy the coin outright, then it is to generate small amounts of it daily in hopes of making your fiat investment back. Simple math for ROI, dude. BTC In<=BTC Out Buying a miner now with fiat, no matter which miners, you'll net negative BTC. If you bought a miner for $500, mine back half a Bitcoin and Bitcoin spikes to $920 a Bitcoin, you're thinking, "WOW, I made back my investment!" WRONG! If you had bought $500 worth of Bitcoin, you'd have over 2 Bitcoins at today's price. It's throwing good money at bad investments. Responding sequentially: 1) First of all, when the price of btc falls, the fiat cost of miners also decreases. Second, speculation exists to varied degree. How much you believe in your speculation significantly determines your investment strategy and how much risk you are willing to take. Buying a miner can be a way to carry less risk under not so uncommon conditions. The fiat cost of miners may decrease, the but electrical and cooling costs don't. Not sure if you're talking about a single miner, but if you a small farm, it doesn't make sense to run with those accumulating month to month hosting costs.2) The cost of BTC in and of itself has absolutely no bearing on ROI. By this I mean that you can theoretically profit at any price level above $0. Reading your posts, it's obvious that you're concentrated on Fiat profit first and foremost. Nothing wrong with that, Fiat rules the world at the moment.
I like to deal with BTC in and out, easier to calculate profit and ROI, but I understand your idealogy.3) Simple math for ROI, dude. Fiat in <= fiat out Once again, you deal with Fiat ROI and profit, nothing wrong with that.
Seeing as this is Bitcointalk forum, you may get a majority of different opinions than yours.4) Uh, no, you're wrong. If you pay $500 for a miner and mine 1 BTC and sell the btc for $920, then your profit is $420 (excluding other expenditures). If you buy with fiat, then profits are tracked in fiat. If you buy with BTC, then profits are tracked in BTC. Same argument. Fiat or BTC ROI/profit.The flaw in your reasoning is that you are making an advisement based upon the assumption that the price will *certainly* be higher in the future. But what if the market goes down? If you buy BTC and the price goes down, you *always* take a loss. But with a miner it is possible to get >100% in a down market. Also consider that you still have the value of your hardware. Mining hardware depreciates faster than regular server or network equipment, much faster. 1 TH/s Dragons sold for $3,000-$4000 at launch early last year. Now you can get Antminer S5s brand new for like $300.5) Sure, you could buy more than 2 BTC at these prices, but if the price falls then you have 2 less valuable BTC. And, if the price goes down, difficulty can go down and you mine more BTC. Price can go up, down, sideways. Your guess is as good as mine.
I think the majority of us are in it for the long haul. Obviously you're focusing on the short term fiat amount for price stability's sake.6) I've owned numerous rigs and ASICs that have achieved 100% ROI *solely* due to the fact that I either paid with fiat directly, or paid wth BTC but immediately repurchased the amount I spent. In a few cases, the difference was >300%. Fiat vs BTC profit once again. Different strokes for different folks.Your approach to things isn't wrong, I'm not disputing the fiat approach to things. It's the current economic world we live in. If the approach is to accumulate as much Bitcoin as possible, then it is wrong, however.
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the joint
Legendary
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Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020
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February 02, 2015, 04:01:07 PM |
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It is now a good time to buy miners with fiat, if you believe than BTC price will raise. good way to get positive ROI sooner.
As always, as it was in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015....if you believe the price will rise, just buy the Bitcoin. You're throwing away money and wasting time buying miners, if you're doing it strictly on speculation. Too many factors against mining: electrical costs, downtime, upkeep, maintenance, cooling, difficulty, pool variance Just buy BTC at the moment, it's at a discount price! ![Cool](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cool.gif) Bad logic. There are many reasons why buying a miner could be better than buying BTC. If people really believe that BTC will definitively increase in value, then the best option would seem to be selling everything you own for BTC that isn't essential to your immediate survival. Obviously, that would be an unbelievably risky move, so basically anyone will factor in at least *some* level of risk. For those who don't mind risk, buying BTC outright may be preferable. However, if you hate risk, buying a miner can be a much safer option, especially in a bear market. The trade off for that extra security is decreased profit potential over the long haul. You don't buy miners when the price slumps, you just buy BTC, if you're speculating on a price hike. You DO buy miners when the BTC fiat price is high, as it's more prohibitive to buy the coin outright, then it is to generate small amounts of it daily in hopes of making your fiat investment back. Simple math for ROI, dude. BTC In<=BTC Out Buying a miner now with fiat, no matter which miners, you'll net negative BTC. If you bought a miner for $500, mine back half a Bitcoin and Bitcoin spikes to $920 a Bitcoin, you're thinking, "WOW, I made back my investment!" WRONG! If you had bought $500 worth of Bitcoin, you'd have over 2 Bitcoins at today's price. It's throwing good money at bad investments. Responding sequentially: 1) First of all, when the price of btc falls, the fiat cost of miners also decreases. Second, speculation exists to varied degree. How much you believe in your speculation significantly determines your investment strategy and how much risk you are willing to take. Buying a miner can be a way to carry less risk under not so uncommon conditions. The fiat cost of miners may decrease, the but electrical and cooling costs don't. Not sure if you're talking about a single miner, but if you a small farm, it doesn't make sense to run with those accumulating month to month hosting costs.2) The cost of BTC in and of itself has absolutely no bearing on ROI. By this I mean that you can theoretically profit at any price level above $0. Reading your posts, it's obvious that you're concentrated on Fiat profit first and foremost. Nothing wrong with that, Fiat rules the world at the moment.
I like to deal with BTC in and out, easier to calculate profit and ROI, but I understand your idealogy.3) Simple math for ROI, dude. Fiat in <= fiat out Once again, you deal with Fiat ROI and profit, nothing wrong with that.
Seeing as this is Bitcointalk forum, you may get a majority of different opinions than yours.4) Uh, no, you're wrong. If you pay $500 for a miner and mine 1 BTC and sell the btc for $920, then your profit is $420 (excluding other expenditures). If you buy with fiat, then profits are tracked in fiat. If you buy with BTC, then profits are tracked in BTC. Same argument. Fiat or BTC ROI/profit.The flaw in your reasoning is that you are making an advisement based upon the assumption that the price will *certainly* be higher in the future. But what if the market goes down? If you buy BTC and the price goes down, you *always* take a loss. But with a miner it is possible to get >100% in a down market. Also consider that you still have the value of your hardware. Mining hardware depreciates faster than regular server or network equipment, much faster. 1 TH/s Dragons sold for $3,000-$4000 at launch early last year. Now you can get Antminer S5s brand new for like $300.5) Sure, you could buy more than 2 BTC at these prices, but if the price falls then you have 2 less valuable BTC. And, if the price goes down, difficulty can go down and you mine more BTC. Price can go up, down, sideways. Your guess is as good as mine.
I think the majority of us are in it for the long haul. Obviously you're focusing on the short term fiat amount for price stability's sake.6) I've owned numerous rigs and ASICs that have achieved 100% ROI *solely* due to the fact that I either paid with fiat directly, or paid wth BTC but immediately repurchased the amount I spent. In a few cases, the difference was >300%. Fiat vs BTC profit once again. Different strokes for different folks.Your approach to things isn't wrong, I'm not disputing the fiat approach to things. It's the current economic world we live in. If the approach is to accumulate as much Bitcoin as possible, then it is wrong, however. Agreed, profit-potential is generally greater if you purchase BTC outright as it would take an unlikely set of circumstances (especially given current ones) to generate more BTC than mining. We both agree that we can't know future price movement. But, let's consider the two main options we're focusing on: 1) We can buy BTC, and 2) We can buy a miner instead. Currently, we are in a down market. If at any point during the past year someone purchased BTC (and didn't successfully day-trade with it) and held it, they would have lost money. Similarly, if they had purchased a miner with BTC, virtually all will have lost money. The chance for ROI over the past year given these conditions is/was essentially 0%. I've purchased several miners with fiat during the past year, and every single one of those achieved >200% ROI. In other words, they were the best decisions I could have made at the time. Pretty much anyone who has purchased a miner with fiat during the past year would have done far better than those who purchased BTC outright or bought a miner with BTC. Basically, we agree on a lot of things, but the point I keep emphasizing is that, generally, buying a miner limits the range of potential gains but also losses, and therefore carries less risk in many ways.
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ChuckBuck
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
February 02, 2015, 04:32:17 PM |
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It is now a good time to buy miners with fiat, if you believe than BTC price will raise. good way to get positive ROI sooner.
As always, as it was in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015....if you believe the price will rise, just buy the Bitcoin. You're throwing away money and wasting time buying miners, if you're doing it strictly on speculation. Too many factors against mining: electrical costs, downtime, upkeep, maintenance, cooling, difficulty, pool variance Just buy BTC at the moment, it's at a discount price! ![Cool](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cool.gif) Bad logic. There are many reasons why buying a miner could be better than buying BTC. If people really believe that BTC will definitively increase in value, then the best option would seem to be selling everything you own for BTC that isn't essential to your immediate survival. Obviously, that would be an unbelievably risky move, so basically anyone will factor in at least *some* level of risk. For those who don't mind risk, buying BTC outright may be preferable. However, if you hate risk, buying a miner can be a much safer option, especially in a bear market. The trade off for that extra security is decreased profit potential over the long haul. You don't buy miners when the price slumps, you just buy BTC, if you're speculating on a price hike. You DO buy miners when the BTC fiat price is high, as it's more prohibitive to buy the coin outright, then it is to generate small amounts of it daily in hopes of making your fiat investment back. Simple math for ROI, dude. BTC In<=BTC Out Buying a miner now with fiat, no matter which miners, you'll net negative BTC. If you bought a miner for $500, mine back half a Bitcoin and Bitcoin spikes to $920 a Bitcoin, you're thinking, "WOW, I made back my investment!" WRONG! If you had bought $500 worth of Bitcoin, you'd have over 2 Bitcoins at today's price. It's throwing good money at bad investments. Responding sequentially: 1) First of all, when the price of btc falls, the fiat cost of miners also decreases. Second, speculation exists to varied degree. How much you believe in your speculation significantly determines your investment strategy and how much risk you are willing to take. Buying a miner can be a way to carry less risk under not so uncommon conditions. The fiat cost of miners may decrease, the but electrical and cooling costs don't. Not sure if you're talking about a single miner, but if you a small farm, it doesn't make sense to run with those accumulating month to month hosting costs.2) The cost of BTC in and of itself has absolutely no bearing on ROI. By this I mean that you can theoretically profit at any price level above $0. Reading your posts, it's obvious that you're concentrated on Fiat profit first and foremost. Nothing wrong with that, Fiat rules the world at the moment.
I like to deal with BTC in and out, easier to calculate profit and ROI, but I understand your idealogy.3) Simple math for ROI, dude. Fiat in <= fiat out Once again, you deal with Fiat ROI and profit, nothing wrong with that.
Seeing as this is Bitcointalk forum, you may get a majority of different opinions than yours.4) Uh, no, you're wrong. If you pay $500 for a miner and mine 1 BTC and sell the btc for $920, then your profit is $420 (excluding other expenditures). If you buy with fiat, then profits are tracked in fiat. If you buy with BTC, then profits are tracked in BTC. Same argument. Fiat or BTC ROI/profit.The flaw in your reasoning is that you are making an advisement based upon the assumption that the price will *certainly* be higher in the future. But what if the market goes down? If you buy BTC and the price goes down, you *always* take a loss. But with a miner it is possible to get >100% in a down market. Also consider that you still have the value of your hardware. Mining hardware depreciates faster than regular server or network equipment, much faster. 1 TH/s Dragons sold for $3,000-$4000 at launch early last year. Now you can get Antminer S5s brand new for like $300.5) Sure, you could buy more than 2 BTC at these prices, but if the price falls then you have 2 less valuable BTC. And, if the price goes down, difficulty can go down and you mine more BTC. Price can go up, down, sideways. Your guess is as good as mine.
I think the majority of us are in it for the long haul. Obviously you're focusing on the short term fiat amount for price stability's sake.6) I've owned numerous rigs and ASICs that have achieved 100% ROI *solely* due to the fact that I either paid with fiat directly, or paid wth BTC but immediately repurchased the amount I spent. In a few cases, the difference was >300%. Fiat vs BTC profit once again. Different strokes for different folks.Your approach to things isn't wrong, I'm not disputing the fiat approach to things. It's the current economic world we live in. If the approach is to accumulate as much Bitcoin as possible, then it is wrong, however. Agreed, profit-potential is generally greater if you purchase BTC outright as it would take an unlikely set of circumstances (especially given current ones) to generate more BTC than mining. We both agree that we can't know future price movement. But, let's consider the two main options we're focusing on: 1) We can buy BTC, and 2) We can buy a miner instead. Currently, we are in a down market. If at any point during the past year someone purchased BTC (and didn't successfully day-trade with it) and held it, they would have lost money. Similarly, if they had purchased a miner with BTC, virtually all will have lost money. The chance for ROI over the past year given these conditions is/was essentially 0%. I've purchased several miners with fiat during the past year, and every single one of those achieved >200% ROI. In other words, they were the best decisions I could have made at the time. Pretty much anyone who has purchased a miner with fiat during the past year would have done far better than those who purchased BTC outright or bought a miner with BTC. Basically, we agree on a lot of things, but the point I keep emphasizing is that, generally, buying a miner limits the range of potential gains but also losses, and therefore carries less risk in many ways. Can't argue with that. Your approach profitted handsomely, and is a good method in the current climate. Your way is the right way to profit and ROI now. Buying any miner now with BTC, is just plain dumb, then using fiat, wire, or paypal to cover costs. Then naturally you recoup your fiat with BTC mined and the BTC resale of the equipment. I'm hoping (dumb me) and banking on the continued development and adoption and improvement of the ecosystem of Bitcoin overall. I've mined my good share, but once difficulty rose to a level I could no longer compete or cover costs, I had no choice to liquidate my hardware. If BTC price ever rises to it's pre Gox days, then I may even indulge in a miner once again, just to get that residual income daily (buying miner in Fiat of course). When I bought my first Antminer S1s and Dragons in early 2014, I ROI'ed in BTC for the first time after buying it in BTC. Nowadays, it's not possible for the BTC in/BTC out method, though Fiat in/Fiat out is still doable for sure.
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xstr8guy
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
February 03, 2015, 02:59:08 AM |
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It is now a good time to buy miners with fiat, if you believe than BTC price will raise. good way to get positive ROI sooner.
As always, as it was in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015....if you believe the price will rise, just buy the Bitcoin. You're throwing away money and wasting time buying miners, if you're doing it strictly on speculation. Too many factors against mining: electrical costs, downtime, upkeep, maintenance, cooling, difficulty, pool variance Just buy BTC at the moment, it's at a discount price! ![Cool](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cool.gif) Bad logic. There are many reasons why buying a miner could be better than buying BTC. If people really believe that BTC will definitively increase in value, then the best option would seem to be selling everything you own for BTC that isn't essential to your immediate survival. Obviously, that would be an unbelievably risky move, so basically anyone will factor in at least *some* level of risk. For those who don't mind risk, buying BTC outright may be preferable. However, if you hate risk, buying a miner can be a much safer option, especially in a bear market. The trade off for that extra security is decreased profit potential over the long haul. You don't buy miners when the price slumps, you just buy BTC, if you're speculating on a price hike. You DO buy miners when the BTC fiat price is high, as it's more prohibitive to buy the coin outright, then it is to generate small amounts of it daily in hopes of making your fiat investment back. Simple math for ROI, dude. BTC In<=BTC Out Buying a miner now with fiat, no matter which miners, you'll net negative BTC. If you bought a miner for $500, mine back half a Bitcoin and Bitcoin spikes to $920 a Bitcoin, you're thinking, "WOW, I made back my investment!" WRONG! If you had bought $500 worth of Bitcoin, you'd have over 2 Bitcoins at today's price. It's throwing good money at bad investments. I am certainly glad I didn't buy BTC with fiat when it was at $900-1100. But I'm ecstatic that I bought a lot of mining gear with BTC at that time! There is no guarantee of success when buying BTC with fiat and speculating on long term price increase. Recent history shows ample proof of that. There has to be a lot of victims because of the tumble from $1100 to $200 over the past year (and a couple months). IMO, anyone using BTC to buy mining gear now with the exchange rate so low is a fool. And using fiat is just as bad if not worse. I recently bought 2 SP20s during the group buy sale. That was foolish on my part but I just had to have those cool looking Spondoolies machines. ![Undecided](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/undecided.gif)
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ChuckBuck
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
February 03, 2015, 02:26:26 PM |
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It is now a good time to buy miners with fiat, if you believe than BTC price will raise. good way to get positive ROI sooner.
As always, as it was in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015....if you believe the price will rise, just buy the Bitcoin. You're throwing away money and wasting time buying miners, if you're doing it strictly on speculation. Too many factors against mining: electrical costs, downtime, upkeep, maintenance, cooling, difficulty, pool variance Just buy BTC at the moment, it's at a discount price! ![Cool](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cool.gif) Bad logic. There are many reasons why buying a miner could be better than buying BTC. If people really believe that BTC will definitively increase in value, then the best option would seem to be selling everything you own for BTC that isn't essential to your immediate survival. Obviously, that would be an unbelievably risky move, so basically anyone will factor in at least *some* level of risk. For those who don't mind risk, buying BTC outright may be preferable. However, if you hate risk, buying a miner can be a much safer option, especially in a bear market. The trade off for that extra security is decreased profit potential over the long haul. You don't buy miners when the price slumps, you just buy BTC, if you're speculating on a price hike. You DO buy miners when the BTC fiat price is high, as it's more prohibitive to buy the coin outright, then it is to generate small amounts of it daily in hopes of making your fiat investment back. Simple math for ROI, dude. BTC In<=BTC Out Buying a miner now with fiat, no matter which miners, you'll net negative BTC. If you bought a miner for $500, mine back half a Bitcoin and Bitcoin spikes to $920 a Bitcoin, you're thinking, "WOW, I made back my investment!" WRONG! If you had bought $500 worth of Bitcoin, you'd have over 2 Bitcoins at today's price. It's throwing good money at bad investments. I am certainly glad I didn't buy BTC with fiat when it was at $900-1100. But I'm ecstatic that I bought a lot of mining gear with BTC at that time! There is no guarantee of success when buying BTC with fiat and speculating on long term price increase. Recent history shows ample proof of that. There has to be a lot of victims because of the tumble from $1100 to $200 over the past year (and a couple months). IMO, anyone using BTC to buy mining gear now with the exchange rate so low is a fool. And using fiat is just as bad if not worse. I recently bought 2 SP20s during the group buy sale. That was foolish on my part but I just had to have those cool looking Spondoolies machines. ![Undecided](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/undecided.gif) It really is just a tough time overall for both mining and Crypto overall with this non stop Price drop. People say just keep holding it and never spend it, but how is that possible if you electrical bills to pay or better yet mortgage, rent, medical, food, school etc... Anybody here that doesn't care about the fiat price of Bitcoin is delusional, as it plays an enormous factor. The largest cloud mining Cex.IO had to shut down it's door because of the low BTC price. Until fiat just completely up and dies off, BTC's value will be forever tied to it for both mining and practical uses.
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